[GaryBIS]

It looks to me like Showtime is a Troll, and by continuing a discussion with him, we are just taking the bait..


An internet troll, or online bully, deliberately tries to offend, cause trouble or directly attack people by posting derogatory comments on Facebook posts, blogs, under YouTube videos, on forums and other social media, such as Twitter and Instagram.

Gary

 

[RV8R]

It looks to me like Showtime is a Troll, and by continuing a discussion with him, we are just taking the bait..


An internet troll, or online bully, deliberately tries to offend, cause trouble or directly attack people by posting derogatory comments on Facebook posts, blogs, under YouTube videos, on forums and other social media, such as Twitter and Instagram.

Gary

I won’t go that far, but he is purging his material & hiding his profile;

I would not label @Showtime as he has been on here a longtime.

As long as he is civil, & follows forum rules, it is good to have different opinions.

If we do not defend the free speech of Members we do not agree with then we are compliantly agreeing to censorship.

I won’t join “mob mentality” in this regard.

We all have our individual opinions & biases ,,, it is what makes this Forum Special ,,, Individualism.

We all learn from each other ,,, even if what not to do.

 

[GaryBIS]

Yup 👍

On The Forum ,,, This happens all the time. I post something 100% related @ the same time other members do;

Many DIYers do not understand the difference between a Propane “Furnace / Heater” by your definition & the liquid fueled gasoline / diesel “Heaters” as you define it.

I just posted the exact same thing above in post #78.

Depending upon the type of thermostat, the Propex or Suburban comes with, the operation and accuracy is within a couple of degrees F.

I have no Suburban experience, but in communication with @Dennis CampMaker & @GaryBIS I have concluded the Propex is very accurate with the DigiStat & depending on the Suburban thermostat it too can ve pretty accurate.

Thanks for your clarification.

Hi RV,
Our Suburban propane furnace has been very reliable at all altitudes.
The thermostat cycles it off and on and controls the temperature within a couple degrees.
The installation is straightforward - in part because they really don't leave you any options.

I've never had to clean it or adjust it over something like 8 years. It has never failed to start and run on the first try.

It is built in the same way as my home propane furnace. It has the same sort of burner, igniter, blower and heat exchanger as my home furnace. And, it has the same safety features (flame detector etc.).

Honestly if there were a proven gasoline furnace, I might well switch to it and go to an induction cooktop and regain the space my propane tank takes up. Maybe the Velit is it, but since I have a solution that works well now, I'm going to wait and see.

Gary

 

[RV8R]

Hi RV,
Our Suburban propane furnace has been very reliable at all altitudes.
The thermostat cycles it off and on and controls the temperature within a couple degrees.
The installation is straightforward - in part because they really don't leave you any options.

I've never had to clean it or adjust it over something like 8 years. It has never failed to start and run on the first try.

It is built in the same way as my home propane furnace. It has the same sort of burner, igniter, blower and heat exchanger as my home furnace. And, it has the same safety features (flame detector etc.).

Honestly if there were a proven gasoline furnace, I might well switch to it and go to an induction cooktop and regain the space my propane tank takes up. Maybe the Velit is it, but since I have a solution that works well now, I'm going to wait and see.

Gary

Yup @GaryBIS ,,, Thanks for that 👍.

My 2018 Propex HS 2800 has been living & working up in the Yukon since 2021 after its time with us.

Can you define the Altitudes you have been at with your Suburban ( true or density - whatever you remember experiencing ). I think @MsNomer is an extreme use high altitude use compared to most. I believe the highest asphalt road in Canada is 7500’.

Suburban is also on my radar as an option to the Propex ,,, thru wall install has its advantages 👍. Just have to have the right spot for it & cut a hole in the side of the van.

Like you I have a solution, & currently no issues ,,, So wait & see.

 

[Showtime]

....

 

[GaryBIS]

Yup @GaryBIS ,,, Thanks for that 👍.

My 2018 Propex HS 2800 has been living & working up in the Yukon since 2021 after its time with us.

Can you define the Altitudes you have been at with your Suburban ( true or density - whatever you remember experiencing ). I think @MsNomer is an extreme use high altitude use compared to most. I believe the highest asphalt road in Canada is 7500’.

Suburban is also on my radar as an option to the Propex ,,, thru wall install has its advantages 👍.

Hi RV,
We have used it probably a dozen times at Island Lake CG on the Beartooth Highway.
The elevation of 9518 ft.

I think that may be our highest, but not certain - some of the campgrounds in the Rockies are pretty high.

The things that could be a bit better on the Suburban...

• The installation allows about zero flexibility - it pretty much has to go on the floor with the exhaust going directly out the sidewall. Of course, this may contribute to its trouble free operation
• It could be a little quieter.

Gary

 

[Pierre O]

Hi RV,
Our Suburban propane furnace has been very reliable at all altitudes.
The thermostat cycles it off and on and controls the temperature within a couple degrees.
The installation is straightforward - in part because they really don't leave you any options.

I've never had to clean it or adjust it over something like 8 years. It has never failed to start and run on the first try.

It is built in the same way as my home propane furnace. It has the same sort of burner, igniter, blower and heat exchanger as my home furnace. And, it has the same safety features (flame detector etc.).

Honestly if there were a proven gasoline furnace, I might well switch to it and go to an induction cooktop and regain the space my propane tank takes up. Maybe the Velit is it, but since I have a solution that works well now, I'm going to wait and see.

Gary

Yes - the suburban/atwood (now Dometic) -type units have been built forever and ship with pretty much any RV so it's many millions of units overall. They've definitely proved to be reliable and safe and as you say, the installation is quite difficult to "mess up". They tend to be mostly installed at the factory by RV manufacturers anyway.

The webasto/eberspacher-type units have also been built forever but from what I understand the main markets are boats, machinery and heavy trucks. They tend to be mostly installed by service shops and have more ways where you can go wrong, both during installation and usage.

To us gasoline was the choice and we knew the trade-offs going in. We went with GC primarly because they support DIY customers (both for sales and after-sales) better than Webasto and Eberspacher. So far so good but fingers crossed 🤞.

 

[RV8R]

Hi RV,
We have used it probably a dozen times at Island Lake CG on the Beartooth Highway.
The elevation of 9518 ft.

I think that may be our highest, but not certain - some of the campgrounds in the Rockies are pretty high.

The things that could be a bit better on the Suburban...

• The installation allows about zero flexibility - it pretty much has to go on the floor with the exhaust going directly out the sidewall. Of course, this may contribute to its trouble free operation
• It could be a little quieter.

Gary

In our Layout, if it could fit here, the Suburban would work (same spot as the shore plug - in front of the bed gable

https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/rv8rs-new-build-tetris.93938/post-778797

I am not bothered by “white noise” typically produced by mechanical appliances like furnaces or the Propex ,,, I think I find it comforting they are running 😁.

 

[RV8R]

Ok this is getting creepy now.

At least on the Transit and Sprinter forums there isnt the old boys club aspect of this place. This has turned into a circle jerk of the same 4 or 5 retired guys. Notice how terrible engagement has been for the past few years? How nobody posts anymore? That ain't because of me the "troll".

Hilarious to watch these dudes trip over themselves to defend the honor of a random Alibaba heater importer that sold them faulty units.

Hmmmmmm 🤔

You are always entitled to your civil opinion with me @Showtime

Now ,,, Isn’t it Ironic

Your stage name here is Showtime & you are;

1. hiding your profile
2. deleting your content
3. you post generalities & when asked to back up your opinions it is “NoShow” Time
4. Shy on examples & details

I think we all get it ,,, You are critical of VeLit.

Now if you have detailed information on a heater that you have used & like & can post about the pros & cons about that heater in which you have experience with ,,, I’m all ears ( in this case eyes ).

 

[MsNomer]

Maybe he is an influencer for Webasto or Espar. Both of them have to be sweating by now. I was waiting for the Espar AS3 B2L, and would have shelled out the >$1,600, but it has only very recently become available legitimately from Espar. When we bought the Velit, Heatso and others were selling a prototype that Espar did not support. I contacted Espar directly when I saw the AS3 B2L being sold when Espar said it wasn’t available yet (and customers having problems). The regional manager told me these were prototypes not authorized for sale.

So at the time I bought, VeLit was my best option. Why would I tear it out now and spend another $1,400 (current Amazon price) for the Espar when the Velit is working just fine and meeting our needs? Particularly when right now it may be difficult to know whether the Espar you are buying is legitimate or the prototype.

Here is an Amazon review of the Espar AS3 B2L:
“Unit was purchased months ago though only recently opened and installed due to no control unit being included or exhaust silencer. Instantly coming up with faults consistently with installation correctly done to specs. Sad to have such difficulty in connecting with the seller with these issues.”

Does that mean the Espar is junk? No. It’s possible he unknowingly got one of the prototypes, though the review was a couple days ago. Or it could be that the Espar, like any new device, may be having teething issues.

 

[vlouish]

MsNomer, would you please stop "influencing" me? You make me want to be polite, kind, thoughtful, and helpful. I can't make crazy angry statements and shake my fist at the void when you persist in gently steering us toward a nice cup of tea, a wee biscuit, some pleasant discourse about the topic at hand, and helpful information about what has worked for oneself and what has not! Dad gum it, I can't even type in all caps when I want to anymore! I just tried and it didn't work. Ooooh. I'm just so gol-derned angry. At least I'll always have exclamation points!!!!

 

[Dennis CampMaker]

I have no Suburban experience, but in communication with @Dennis CampMaker & @GaryBIS I have concluded the Propex is very accurate with the DigiStat & depending on the Suburban thermostat it too can ve pretty accurate.

Thanks for your clarification.

Instead of using the analog thermostat that came with the Suburban heater, I started using this digital thermostat which allowed me to set a specific temperature. It had a very small range from high and low of about 2 degrees. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00204WWGE/?th=1

 

[Roblee]

...................It had a very small range from high and low of about 2 degrees. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00204WWGE/?th=1

I would like to replace my mechanical Atwood thermostat. Can you explain your above statement please?

 

[RobPromaster]

Had a flashback, what were the VW Bug gasoline heaters, anyone remember? They were mounted in the front under the hood.
I still do not have a heater installed. Have been waiting for the Velit drama to settle down. Considered mounting a diesel tank under the body and using the Def mount under the gas fill cap. Also considered mounting a diesel tank like one of those all in one units, but the last one leaked and the diesel smell is still renting space in my head.
In summary, the unvented propane turned the interior into a steam bath, maybe a vented propane heater would work. Diesel smells worse than the poo the dog rolled in. And Showtime had a point, though the drama was a bit overacted.
MsNomer, watching you

 

[Pierre O]

Had a flashback, what were the VW Bug gasoline heaters, anyone remember? They were mounted in the front under the hood.

Mostly Eberspacher heaters, primitive versions of today's models but with the same operating principle.

 

[CAL ALTA]

Well MsNomer helped me make the decision on the VeLit, it is sitting in my garage waiting to be installed.
I currently have a diesel heater installed with a modified jerry can as the fuel cell. it works very well but still a pain to buy a separate fuel.

 

[Jing]

Well MsNomer helped me make the decision on the VeLit, it is sitting in my garage waiting to be installed.
I currently have a diesel heater installed with a modified jerry can as the fuel cell. it works very well but still a paid to buy a separate fuel.

If you haven't installed it yet, I would ask their tech support if the pump and ECU that you have are the "good " versions. I'm having to replace both after already installing the unit.

 

[GaryBIS]

Had a flashback, what were the VW Bug gasoline heaters, anyone remember? They were mounted in the front under the hood.
I still do not have a heater installed. Have been waiting for the Velit drama to settle down. Considered mounting a diesel tank under the body and using the Def mount under the gas fill cap. Also considered mounting a diesel tank like one of those all in one units, but the last one leaked and the diesel smell is still renting space in my head.
In summary, the unvented propane turned the interior into a steam bath, maybe a vented propane heater would work. Diesel smells worse than the poo the dog rolled in. And Showtime had a point, though the drama was a bit overacted.
MsNomer, watching you

Hi,
I had a 1965 ish VW bus that had one of those gasoline heaters. I don't remember the brand, but it put out heat and noise like you would not believe. I recall it actually had a spark plug on it. I would definitely not want one in my PM just due to the very high noise level.

I guess one solution that has not been discussed much is the minisplit heat pump that would provide both heat and AC.

Gary

 

[MsNomer]

Jing is correct. Both the pump and the ECU have been upgraded.

We are currently loving the heck out of this heater for its ability to run for an extended period so low we can hardly hear it. Velit claimed this on the website, but I assumed it was hype. It wasn’t. This ability mitigates to some extent the downside of being a heater instead of a furnace, as described above. Yes, there is more of a temperature spread, but the unit advances more slowly through the spread, even with 4K in a 136”.
One night, MrNomer woke up and asked if something was wrong with the heater because he hadn’t heard it. I looked at the thermometer and said, “It has to be running. It’s 68° in here and freezing outside.”

The extended run on low power may be ordinary for you guys with diesel heaters, but both the high altitude and the extended run on low power are features that Webasto Tech said could not be done with gas, so that is our calibration. I cannot imagine that Webasto would not have fixed these issues if they were just poor electronics.

i did some more looking at the Espar AS3 B2L. They claim it has a redesigned throat, so I’m guessing this characteristic defines the divide between VeLit and Espar versus the rest (Bison/General is still a question mark to me.) It will be interesting to see whether Espar can justify its price more than double that of VeLit.

You guys with Bison/General, please report your experiences. Pierre, do you run on low overnight?

 

[SteveSS]

Had a flashback, what were the VW Bug gasoline heaters, anyone remember? They were mounted in the front under the hood.
I still do not have a heater installed. Have been waiting for the Velit drama to settle down. Considered mounting a diesel tank under the body and using the Def mount under the gas fill cap. Also considered mounting a diesel tank like one of those all in one units, but the last one leaked and the diesel smell is still renting space in my head.
In summary, the unvented propane turned the interior into a steam bath, maybe a vented propane heater would work. Diesel smells worse than the poo the dog rolled in. And Showtime had a point, though the drama was a bit overacted.
MsNomer, watching you

Yep, our '71 Westy had one. Broken when we bought it, never fixed it.

We have a 2kW Chinese diesel that is working great so far. It's happy on the lowest pump-speed setting overnight. Its pump and fan speed-ranges are manually adjustable for elevation. I considered the DEF route for the fuel tank but it sounded overly complicated, including fuel level monitoring. I opted for a 5.5ltr transparent tank underhood, on top of the fuse box. Pros: easy to fill and see the level; the dosing pump is up there, too, making it quieter inside the van. Cons: small-ish capacity. I carry a 1.25gal jerry can in reserve.

If we ever switch to gas, it can't be Velit, unless they make a 2kW version by then. We don't have space for a bigger unit.