With 400 miles of range on $6 of electricity who wouldn't love it! But my old Promaster with a Colorado camper van now must go. Cheap.
Im aware of this already and have been looking into EV's, used and new..Bromaster. Try it. You'll like it. Keep your ICE for road trips. But at-home charging is da bomb. A dryer outlet, 50 amp extension cord and an $80 refurbed charger from Amazon. It takes 5 seconds to plug in at night and unplug in the morning. Every morning your tank has 200-300 miles and it cost $5-10. Being a late adapter is just impractical.
I drove a golf cart once! HahhahaBromaster. Try it. You'll like it. Keep your ICE for road trips. But at-home charging is da bomb. A dryer outlet, 50 amp extension cord and an $80 refurbed charger from Amazon. It takes 5 seconds to plug in at night and unplug in the morning. Every morning your tank has 200-300 miles and it cost $5-10. Being a late adapter is just impractical.
Another thing to remember, just because something is being incentived/subsidized doesn't mean its cheaper or free. The stated and actual costs can be quite different, someone is paying for it.No. I meant SIX DOLLARS. Actually $4.95 for 425 miles.
177kWh battery
2.4 mi/kwh
MN Xcel EV at home program $.028/kWh
What a ridiculous thing to say. It's also completely false. I currently drive an EV to the office on the days that I go in - that being an electric scooter. I would also be open to owning an EV car for around town drives, but the practicality of using them for long distance drives, colder months, heavy duty vehicles, etc is a widely debated topic everywhere.cool, I'd love to hear more about this EV van right here on this forum!!!
Beware @rjcarter3 @Bromaster5 and a few others on this forum are blatant anti EVs, conspiracy theorists, anti-anything that gets better than 20 mpg, a vocal minority here in this forum. they spout mis-information repeatedly and its worthless to engage with them. looks like @Bromaster5 setup his profile so no one can see his posts, why would someone do that, why is that an option on the forum? Wish these forum members would grow up as occasionally they actually have something useful to say.
Also, it' not just how much it costs to get your vehicle refueled it's how fast you can do it. Time is money. I can put ~380 miles of range in my PM no matter how cold it is outside in a couple minute stop. Does that time make a difference if I'm sitting at home? No. Does it matter if I'm on a road trip? Yes.Another thing to remember, just because something is being incentived/subsidized doesn't mean its cheaper or free. The stated and actual costs can be quite different, someone is paying for it.
Take Uber for example, those cheap fares were paid in advance by investors to gain market share and disrupt the taxi industry. It worked until all the start-up cash got used and then the deal was over for the consumer. Most investors by that point had already pulled out and were onto the next IPO.
Hi RV,There is a lot of information on the internet ,,, some of it is fact, some of it is opinion, some of it is truth;
View attachment 100538
I truly do not know what to believe. I figure the truth is probably somewhere between the 2 extreme perspectives.
“What’s Up”
Its John's chart,Reduce the speed to 40 mph carry and carry no payload, he posted a graph somewhere.
The e-Transit gets good range when driven at low speed.
But not very practical![]()
Great point. To us the journey is part of the reward - so most of the time we prefer to take secondary roads and travel at lower speeds. Even for ICE vehicles there is a huge effect of speed on consumption so not being in a hurry has benefits.Those of us who are old enough to remember the Arab Oil embargo also remember the plethora of bumper stickers reading "Be Thrifty, Drive 50" and the uniform 55 mph cap on interstates. We also remember driving cross country at 50-55 mph. And we remember having a great time doing so. So driving an EV 50 mph to be able to go further only seems like a loss if you are in a hurry. In which case, at this point in time, an EV for long distance travel is not for you...yet.
The Texas Public Policy Foundation (who authored your first article) is a group of climate change deniers
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All of this stuff fundamentally comes down to whether you believe climate change due to burning fossil fuels is a serious problem or not. If you do, then getting rid of fossil fuel emissions is a must and in order to do a timely transition away from fossil fuels is a must and when you want to change massive industries (like transportation) over to electricity, its going to take subsidies initially to make it happen. If you don't believe in climate change as an urgent problem, then all the emphasis on moving people to EVs is going to look stupid.
Thanks @GaryBIS ,,, I am always interested in & respect your perspectives.Hi RV,
The Texas Public Policy Foundation (who authored your first article) is a group of climate change deniers and fossil fuel fans - I personally would put them as far from trying to get the truth out as its possible to be. They manage to uncover and exaggerate the subsidies that the EV industry gets while conveniently ignoring the billions and billions and billions in subsidies that the fossil fuel industry gets each year - and have for many many decades.
I pay 12 cents per KWH (which is not subsidized for EVs - its the price everybody pays). It takes 80 KWH ($9.60) to fill my EV, and it gets about 300 miles on this. But, I have solar, so my fuel cost for drives within range of home is zero. When on road trips, I'be been paying about 36 cents per KWH, or $30 for a fillup.
All of this stuff fundamentally comes down to whether you believe climate change due to burning fossil fuels is a serious problem or not. If you do, then getting rid of fossil fuel emissions is a must and in order to do a timely transition away from fossil fuels is a must and when you want to change massive industries (like transportation) over to electricity, its going to take subsidies initially to make it happen. If you don't believe in climate change as an urgent problem, then all the emphasis on moving people to EVs is going to look stupid.
Gary
how were you able to buy it? it is not obvious from their website, however, i've not looked in a few months so maybe things have changedWith 400 miles of range on $6 of electricity who wouldn't love it! But my old Promaster with a Colorado camper van now must go. Cheap. View attachment 100490
is 417 watt/mile [err 2.4 mi/kwh] confirmed? i was running with the assumption of 450 watt/mile [aka 2.22 mi/kwh] for either an e-sprinter or e-transit. i would have assumed the brightdrop would be a little less efficientNo. I meant SIX DOLLARS. Actually $4.95 for 425 miles.
177kWh battery
2.4 mi/kwh
MN Xcel EV at home program $.028/kWh
That van is not going 200 miles at 80mph on that battery pack.
Very optimistic graph.
Just look at the trend line. Where is the 1/V² term? Compare to this graph supposedly for real-world Tesla performance:
![]()
So a tiny sleek Tesla S3X can go 200 to 300 miles at 80mph with an 82 KWH battery, and the ZEVO 600 huge boxy van can go just as far with only 160KWH ? I'm not convinced.
Also: range is typically measured at 100% to 0% (reported) battery capacity. In real life, people tend to use 80% to 20% to prolong the life of the battery.
I think it is wonderful that @JohnForde is going electric, but I will be super surprised if they regularly plan a leg of over 100 miles in real life.
As a point of comparison, the Kia EV-6 (we just got one) can be hammered into going 250miles at 70MPH, but since we care about our battery life, like to have some comfortable reserve, and need to account around for the still-nascent PNW fast charging architecture, we plan on ~150 miles between stops at highway speeds.
We absolutely love our electric vehicle. If we charged it from 0% to 100%, that is 77KHW. Our power is $0.06/KWH (~94% non-fossil) so it costs us $4.62. For regular day-to-day operations, we charge it nightly to 60% - that gives us ~150 miles reported range and is in the most gentle area of battery wear.
I made the graph. It is accurate within a few percentage points at room temperature & no wind.That van is not going 200 miles at 80mph on that battery pack.
Very optimistic graph.
Just look at the trend line. Where is the 1/V² term? Compare to this graph supposedly for real-world Tesla performance:
![]()
So a tiny sleek Tesla S3X can go 200 to 300 miles at 80mph with an 82 KWH battery, and the ZEVO 600 huge boxy van can go just as far with only 160KWH ? I'm not convinced.
Also: range is typically measured at 100% to 0% (reported) battery capacity. In real life, people tend to use 80% to 20% to prolong the life of the battery.
I think it is wonderful that @JohnForde is going electric, but I will be super surprised if they regularly plan a leg of over 100 miles in real life.
As a point of comparison, the Kia EV-6 (we just got one) can be hammered into going 250miles at 70MPH, but since we care about our battery life, like to have some comfortable reserve, and need to account around for the still-nascent PNW fast charging architecture, we plan on ~150 miles between stops at highway speeds.
We absolutely love our electric vehicle. If we charged it from 0% to 100%, that is 77KHW. Our power is $0.06/KWH (~94% non-fossil) so it costs us $4.62. For regular day-to-day operations, we charge it nightly to 60% - that gives us ~150 miles reported range and is in the most gentle area of battery wear.
Baxsie, I have not been through the depths of a MN winter with Zevo yet. I received it Aug 25 and was able to drive it beginning Sept 11. But you better be ready to be surprised. I plan on 200 mile legs and always succeed. I have no fear of a 250 mile. I went from Santa Fe to FairPlay CO (300 miles). I still had 60 miles on the gauge but no charger option before Denver. Battery holds 177kWh.That van is not going 200 miles at 80mph on that battery pack.
Very optimistic graph.
Just look at the trend line. Where is the 1/V² term? Compare to this graph supposedly for real-world Tesla performance:
![]()
So a tiny sleek Tesla S3X can go 200 to 300 miles at 80mph with an 82 KWH battery, and the ZEVO 600 huge boxy van can go just as far with only 160KWH ? I'm not convinced.
Also: range is typically measured at 100% to 0% (reported) battery capacity. In real life, people tend to use 80% to 20% to prolong the life of the battery.
I think it is wonderful that @JohnForde is going electric, but I will be super surprised if they regularly plan a leg of over 100 miles in real life.
As a point of comparison, the Kia EV-6 (we just got one) can be hammered into going 250miles at 70MPH, but since we care about our battery life, like to have some comfortable reserve, and need to account around for the still-nascent PNW fast charging architecture, we plan on ~150 miles between stops at highway speeds.
We absolutely love our electric vehicle. If we charged it from 0% to 100%, that is 77KHW. Our power is $0.06/KWH (~94% non-fossil) so it costs us $4.62. For regular day-to-day operations, we charge it nightly to 60% - that gives us ~150 miles reported range and is in the most gentle area of battery wear.