[TarpitCarnivore]

For the longest time I was considering putting a Dickinson Propane heater/fireplace in my Airstream. They’re pretty sweet.
View attachment 103350

Newport Explorer Propane Fireplace - for Boats, RVs & Cabins

PART# 00-NEW-EXPLORER Introducing the Newport Explorer Propane Fireplace: Efficient and Safe: This propane fireplace is designed with an air-tight, direct vent system that ensures the combustion process is isolated from the living space. It includes a built-in blower for more rapid heat...

dickinsonmarine.com

This is the exact brand in my friends Scout camper. It’s really sharp looking, and who doesn’t like a cozy flame, but wasn’t about to carry propane myself just for an aesthetic.

 

[larry barello]

Too bad those wood burning and propane fireplaces don't have barometric altitude adjustments...

 

[GaryBIS]

Hi,
That

For the longest time I was considering putting a Dickinson Propane heater/fireplace in my Airstream. They’re pretty sweet.
View attachment 103350

Newport Explorer Propane Fireplace - for Boats, RVs & Cabins

PART# 00-NEW-EXPLORER Introducing the Newport Explorer Propane Fireplace: Efficient and Safe: This propane fireplace is designed with an air-tight, direct vent system that ensures the combustion process is isolated from the living space. It includes a built-in blower for more rapid heat...

dickinsonmarine.com

Hi,
That is nice, and it takes away the biggest downfall of a wood only heater in that you probably would need some kind of other heater when there was no wood or you are not feeling like cutting the wood and tending the fire.

Gary

 

[afox]

@MsNomer just curious, what van heaters did you have experience with before the Velit? YOu seem gleeful that it heats reliably and didnt cost $2000, that seems odd to us old timers have been using propane furnaces in our vans for 30+ years and they are extremely reliable. They do not require maintenance like a liquid fuel (gasoline/diesel) heater does. Eventually the screen on your velit will get clogged with particles leftover from incomplete burning of gasoline and it will require removal and an overhaul and likely a new expensive screen. Hopefully it doesnt happen on a trip when you need the heater. My last heater an atwood everest star went about 20 years with zero maintence and zero failure and I used it elevations upto about 10,800' regularly with no modifications. It cost $500. My current heater a propex seems to be equally reliable at all elevations however it cost about $800 new. I played with a diesel heater for a weekend and decided NFW. I consider them for occasional and non-critical use like 2-3 season camping where you could bundle up to stay warm. They are not intended for arctic / high elevation winter camping. There's a reason "professional" full timers operating around ski areas in the wes like faroutride started with a multi thousand dollar gas heater and added a propex.

note that the BTU's stated by the heater manufacturer is sometimes input BTU, sometimes output BTU, they are somewhere around 60-70 percent efficient. REgarding specs for these things, its just marketing material. You could get an anemometer and thermometer and estimate the output BTUs with math.

 

[MsNomer]

One of our earliest and most resolute decisions was that we would NOT add diesel or propane, plus I absolutely did not want vents in the van’s sheet metal. Period. Also, if we had decided to relent on the propane two years after the initial build, there would have been major compromises somewhere to fit in a tank and heater. We understand the advantages of propane, but it is not our cup of tea. Glad it works for you.

Our previous experience was with gas Webasto, which worked perfectly as long as we ran it only on high and below 7,500 feet (with altitude adjustment). Four winters without maintenance until we got desperate one night at 8,500 feet.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

There's a reason "professional" full timers operating around ski areas in the wes like faroutride started with a multi thousand dollar gas heater and added a propex.

They still use Webasto, but they installed a propex as a backup. I went to read if anything changed and they still stand by the gas powered ones it seems.

@MsNomer with your previous webasto did you have the old controller design where it was akin to analog knob, or the newer digital ones with the thermostat? We have the thermostat version and so far it seems to work akin to how our Espar did.

 

[Pierre O]

One of our earliest and most resolute decisions was that we would NOT add diesel or propane, plus I absolutely did not want vents in the van’s sheet metal. Period. Also, if we had decided to relent on the propane two years after the initial build, there would have been major compromises somewhere to fit in a tank and heater. We understand the advantages of propane, but it is not our cup of tea. Glad it works for you.

Our previous experience was with gas Webasto, which worked perfectly as long as we ran it only on high and below 7,500 feet (with altitude adjustment). Four winters without maintenance until we got desperate one night at 8,500 feet.

💯. We also did not want propane. Of the 2 options for carrying it, I was not going to have a 20 lb tank inside. I understand they can be made safe, but I am afraid of propane. That's just me. I even treat 1 lb green tanks with considerable respect. The other option was an underbody tank. I would have been relatively comfortable with this from a safety standpoint. These are also typically 20 pound tanks if I remember well.
We camp in cold conditions in the winter. Last weekend over a 72 hour period we burned 2.6 gallons of gasoline for heat, or 300,000 BTU. Assuming 70% efficiency we got about 210,000 BTU as heat. Now assuming a propane furnance is 85% efficient we would have needed 248,000 BTU, or 11.5 pounds, of propane.
So basically this means that for us, for only a long weekend trip, already I would have had to get the tank (BBQ tank or underbody tank) filled prior to the next trip. With a gasoline heater I just pumped an extra 10 liters in when I filled up on the way back.
So to us, a gasoline heater was the compromise we were willing to live with. Again I'm not suggesting it is for everybody. For most people propane is probably the best compromise; but not for us.

 

[MsNomer]

Last weekend over a 72 hour period we burned 2.6 gallons of gasoline for heat,

How do you measure so precisely? So far, all we can tell is our fuel mileage is a bit worse than it would have been on this tank.

 

[Pierre O]

How do you measure so precisely? So far, all we can tell is our fuel mileage is a bit worse than it would have been on this tank.

I compared how much fuel I pumped in vs how much the engine burned since last fillup (calculated from distance driven and trip computer field consumption). It arrived at 10 liters burned in the heater, which means 40 hours burn time which is in line with our recollection of the weekend. It may be 10-15% off (plus or minus) but not much more.

 

[RV8R]

💯. We also did not want propane. Of the 2 options for carrying it, I was not going to have a 20 lb tank inside. I understand they can be made safe, but I am afraid of propane. That's just me. I even treat 1 lb green tanks with considerable respect. The other option was an underbody tank. I would have been relatively comfortable with this from a safety standpoint. These are also typically 20 pound tanks if I remember well.
We camp in cold conditions in the winter. Last weekend over a 72 hour period we burned 2.6 gallons of gasoline for heat, or 300,000 BTU. Assuming 70% efficiency we got about 210,000 BTU as heat. Now assuming a propane furnance is 85% efficient we would have needed 248,000 BTU, or 11.5 pounds, of propane.
So basically this means that for us, for only a long weekend trip, already I would have had to get the tank (BBQ tank or underbody tank) filled prior to the next trip. With a gasoline heater I just pumped an extra 10 liters in when I filled up on the way back.
So to us, a gasoline heater was the compromise we were willing to live with. Again I'm not suggesting it is for everybody. For most people propane is probably the best compromise; but not for us.

This is good information @Pierre O which demonstrates how the intended use of a DIY van should be the indicator or “lighted path” for the design decisions we make before we build.

With your heavy heater use in mind, I would maybe choose a gasoline heater as well.

“DIY Van Design/Build - Just a Long List of Compromises” 😁

 

[RV8R]

One of our earliest and most resolute decisions was that we would NOT add diesel or propane, plus I absolutely did not want vents in the van’s sheet metal. Period. Also, if we had decided to relent on the propane two years after the initial build, there would have been major compromises somewhere to fit in a tank and heater. We understand the advantages of propane, but it is not our cup of tea. Glad it works for you.

Our previous experience was with gas Webasto, which worked perfectly as long as we ran it only on high and below 7,500 feet (with altitude adjustment). Four winters without maintenance until we got desperate one night at 8,500 feet.

I’m hopeful these gasoline heaters are the answer for you. One would think in 2024 manufacturers could get these things to run properly & not carbon up. There are Pros & Cons to all decisions we make DIY Vans. In late 2018, I started into this new hobby with the idea of a 100% Electrical Van 🤣🤣. With no adult RV experience I had to do tons of research on the something correct internet ( without by building science background I would have been lost on the internet & I have no idea how newbies are able to parse out the internet if they have no building science / experience ). There is a lot of BS out there. Regardless, I dropped my 100% fully electric van ( no propane / no gasoline / no diesel ) & after floundering around settled on propane.

Floundering; Where some DIYers might look at floundering about as a bad thing ,,, I do not ,,, at least I do not thing it is bad at the “Design” phase. When DIY designing, if we immediately cut ourselves off choice like electricity, propane, gasoline, or diesel then those options are closed off ( closed minded ). It is good to question our decisions & keep an open mind & explore the options we discarded from our designs.

We all have our biases, even if we are unaware of them. When I first came upon The Forum, there seemed to be certain “camps” like battery chemistry, heater fuel type, fridge type, etc. I suppose when we choose “something van”, we choose the camp we are in. I believe it is a good thing to “keep an open mind” & question the decisions we make while completing our van ,,, “Post Build Floundering” if you can think of it like that. A lot of my posts on The Forum are “Post Build Floundering”, where I am attempting to share my thoughts & experiences in hopes it will help other DIYers with their long lists of compromises.

After “floundering about”, I am probably going to but a cheap diesel heater for my Cabin (It is heated by Propane).

Reasoning;

1. I already have diesel on site
2. It adds a level of redundancy
3. These heaters are cheap
4. I already have cheap diesel heater experience & the installation is easy
5. When it is cold there, a diesel heater could run all night long
6. It provides a booster heater to supplement
7. It provides an experimental testbed & further learning without having to rely on it
8. @SteveSS & Other Members are here with cheap diesel heater experience to draw on 😁

 

[afox]

One of our earliest and most resolute decisions was that we would NOT add diesel or propane, plus I absolutely did not want vents in the van’s sheet metal. Period. Also, if we had decided to relent on the propane two years after the initial build, there would have been major compromises somewhere to fit in a tank and heater. We understand the advantages of propane, but it is not our cup of tea. Glad it works for you.

Our previous experience was with gas Webasto, which worked perfectly as long as we ran it only on high and below 7,500 feet (with altitude adjustment). Four winters without maintenance until we got desperate one night at 8,500 feet.

Very well then. There's a reason there arent hundreds of posts about how to keep propane furnaces operational. Propex doesnt have vents in the sheet metal, it mounts thru the floor. A propane locker is very simple, its just an airtight box that vents thru the floor, nothing to be afraid of and running tiny plastic hoses full of gasoline into the inside of the van is not safer. Liquid fuel heaters do occasionally go up in flames. I hate to hear that someone is using a gasoline heater because they perceive it to be "safe". Its a shame that the propane locker takes up space in the van that is by far the biggest drawback to me. I take out my propane locker in summer and use 1# green bottles for cooking in summer.

As far as I know none of the liquid fuel heaters are maintenance free, they will all soot up and require rebuild eventually.

 

[Pierre O]

Very well then. There's a reason there arent hundreds of posts about how to keep propane furnaces operational. Propex doesnt have vents in the sheet metal, it mounts thru the floor. A propane locker is very simple, its just an airtight box that vents thru the floor, nothing to be afraid of and running tiny plastic hoses full of gasoline into the inside of the van is not safer. Liquid fuel heaters do occasionally go up in flames. I hate to hear that someone is using a gasoline heater because they perceive it to be "safe". Its a shame that they take up space in the van. I take out my propane locker in summer and use 1# green bottles for cooking in summer.

As far as I know none of the liquid fuel heaters are maintenance free, they will all soot up and require rebuild eventually.

Why would one run gasoline lines inside the van? The complete fuel line and the fuel pump are all outside under the floor in a normal installation.
And BTW RV furnaces are reliable but they do fail as any RV forum will show. And RVs do blow up from propane explosions occasionally as well. No non-trivial technology is perfect; it's all about what set of trade-offs works best for you.

 

[SteveSS]

Eventually the screen on your velit will get clogged with particles leftover from incomplete burning of gasoline and it will require removal and an overhaul and likely a new expensive screen.

We are among those that made the decision early on not to include propane. It certainly has its benefits, but we can all have different priorities and we each live with the consequences. Nothing wrong with that.

I recently replaced the atomizer screen in our Chinese diesel. I bought a package of 10 screens and the simple tools for it for under $20. It turned out to be an easy job that doesn't require removing the heater from the van. Along the way, I also learned how to manually adjust our particular model for elevation, which should keep it from clogging the screen as often. I'm still OK with these particular consequences, but it's OK if others aren't.

 

[RV8R]

Why would one run gasoline lines inside the van? The complete fuel line and the fuel pump are all outside under the floor in a normal installation.
And BTW RV furnaces are reliable but they do fail as any RV forum will show. And RVs do blow up from propane explosions occasionally as well. No non-trivial technology is perfect; it's all about what set of trade-offs works best for you.

Safety is the most important item in my mind. I do not know the “safety records” & what is “safer”. I also believe “no Forum Member here” is the keeper of such data ,,, examples with low resolution “sure”, but properly analyzed statistics 🤷‍♂️.

If we consider the DIY Van Builder On This Forum & the Typical RV Owner into the safety equation; I assume the DIY generally knows their heater system better than the Typical RV Owner. I also assume as the DIYer can fix & repair & inspect their heating system, they would generally be “safer” than the RV average.

Sometimes analysis is counterintuitive ( Like Aviation Insurance & General Aviation Twin Engine Airplanes ).

If a DIYer “fears” a fuel source, I suppose they should stay away from that fuel source.

My option is the propane furnaces In am interested in are more reliable & have fewer problems typically than the gasoline or diesel units. I reason this, by looking at the RV Industry & pondering the common fuel & equipment.

 

[MsNomer]

Google “rv propane explosion”

Then Google “rv gas explosion” and see the same “propane gas” explosions

Then find the video of the guy who tried unsuccessfully to get his 5KW diesel heater to melt itself by running it max, then cutting the power so it couldn’t go into cooldown.

We sleep much better knowing we are not lying on top of a pressurized container of volatile, highly flammable propane gas. If the gas heaters were not available, we’d add more quilts.

 

[Pierre O]

Safety is the most important item in my mind. I do not know the “safety records” & what is “safer”. I also believe “no Forum Member here” is the keeper of such data ,,, examples with low resolution “sure”, but properly analyzed statistics 🤷‍♂️.

If we consider the DIY Van Builder On This Forum & the Typical RV Owner into the safety equation, I assume the DIY generally knows their heater system better than the Typical RV Owner. I also assume as the DIYer can fix & repair & inspect their heating system, they would generally be “safer” than the RV average.

Sometimes analysis is counterintuitive ( Like Aviation Insurance & General Aviation Twin Engine Airplanes ).

If a DIYer “fears” a fuel source, I suppose they should stay away from that fuel source.

My option is the propane furnaces In am interested in are more reliable & have fewer problems typically than the gasoline or diesel units. I reason this, by looking at the RV Industry & pondering the common fuel & equipment.

Yes, my point was not about which is safer. All I said was there is risk involved with both. What the relative risk is I do not know.

 

[RV8R]

Google “rv propane explosion”

Then Google “rv gas explosion” and see the same “propane gas” explosions

Then find the video of the guy who tried unsuccessfully to get his 5KW diesel heater to melt itself by running it max, then cutting the power so it couldn’t go into cooldown.

We sleep much better knowing we are not lying on top of a pressurized container of volatile, highly flammable propane gas. If the gas heaters were not available, we’d add more quilts.

I understand the fear.

Data Snapshot: Recreational Vehicle Fires

This data snapshot presents the characteristics of recreational vehicle (RV) fires for 2018-2020.

www.usfa.fema.gov

Fire Damage and Loss Assessment of Recreational Vehicles (RVs)

This report examines the recreational vehicle fire experience and highlights the importance of working smoke alarms in RV fire safety.

www.nfpa.org

https://www.circlingthenews.com/why-rvs-explode-there-are-several-reasons/

Fire Prevention 52: RV Fire Safety 101 (U.S. National Park Service)

Fire is a leading cause of RV loss. Get safety tips for before a trip, in transit, and while parked, and a list of maintenance tips.

www.nps.gov

.

Fumes from generator cited as cause of five deaths in RV. - iRV2 Forums

From US News: CLARKSVILLE, Tenn. Three men and two women at a biker festival to raise money for needy children died in a recreational vehicle when fumes from a generator leaked into the camper, an

www.irv2.com

Carbon monoxide poisoning – the silent killer

Spring is in the air, and rodeos, fairs and camping trips are on the agenda. These activities come with their share of hazards. One deadly hazard, that is sometimes

www.thefencepost.com

RV Legionaires Death in RV Melaque Mexico | Good Sam Community - 2199403

An American and his wife who set up a permanent RV under a palapa at Laguna Del Tule RV Park in Melaque have had a terrible fate. Suspected mold from... - 2199403

community.goodsam.com

#2 ,,, Don’t Get Old 😳 ( apparently you can stop the aging process by packing propane 😁 );

RV Accidents and Statistics

Some bold words on the use of the weight distribution system along with air springs when towing conventional trailers.

fifthwheelst.com

Propane explosion causes fire in recreational vehicle

Location: Cowichan Valley Regional DistrictRegulated industry sector: Gas - Propane

www.technicalsafetybc.ca

RV Fire Safety

A recent report outlines the hazards associated with recreational vehicles

www.nfpa.org

 

[afox]

yes, i understand the thin plastic tubing carrying explosive petrochemical are outside the van but since the heater is in the van, there is gasoline inside the van.

I dont think many RVs are sold with liquid fuel heaters so any stats or news stories will skew heavily towards what is most commonly used.

Im not trying to make a case that propane is safer than gasoline, just out that gasoline heaters are not totally safe. I personally would not choose a gasoline heater over a propane heater because of a fear over safety. I dont know which is safer, depends upon a lot of factors however it would be a false assumption to assume that liquid fuel heaters are safer than propane heaters just because propane can be made to explode upder the right conditions (so can gasoline, so what). I think the biggest risk of using any of these heaters is asphyxiation due to improper venting of combustion gasses.

My point is that in general propane heaters are more reliable than liquid fuel heaters due to the nature of how the fuel is burned and that in a van where one wants/needs the best reliability propane is a better choice. Propane is also a better choice for people that prefer not to fiddle and just expect their heaters to work. In general propane heaters are maintence free (unless something breaks) while at the minimum liquid fuel heaters require disassembly and replacement of components due to sooting after some amount of use.

In general there is a lot of interest in liquid fuel heaters on this forum and many threads discussing issues with various models. Propane furnaces offer a more reliable heating option for those that want the most reliability with the major disadvantage being that we must carry our own propane.

 

[SteveSS]

In general there is a lot of interest in liquid fuel heaters on this forum and many threads discussing issues with various models. Propane furnaces offer a more reliable heating option for those that want the most reliability with the major disadvantage being that we must carry our own propane.

Good point. I also wouldn't want new readers to get the idea that the large number of threads somehow means they are better than propane. Propane and liquid-fuel are both viable options, and they both have pros and cons. How you weigh those is up to you.

Safety wasn't the main or only factor in our decision to skip propane. We were committed to all-electric cooking and refrigeration, which only left heating up for grabs. I didn't like either of the storage options for propane. Inside took up too much space in our floorplan. Outside was more expensive and susceptible to rust and hard knocks. Refuelling propane usually involves another stop, while gas and diesel may be found at the same self-service pump. We were also tainted by some annoying propane experiences with RV rentals in Europe. While none of these were showstoppers, we just decided to give something else a try. Liquid-fuel heaters may be a little more complicated to install, and can be more finicky, hence all the posts about them. I was aware of that, and it encouraged me to do more research first. I enjoyed the challenge, and I think I have this one licked now. YMMV