Ram Promaster Forum banner
81 - 100 of 262 Posts
Yep, self-tapping screws or riv-nuts are both common. Just be careful not to drill or screw through the van's outer skin.
With the 1/8'' closed cell foam vapor barrier I am putting on all the walls I am concerned I would miss the rivnut hole even if I do a prior fitting to mark its position on the cabinet or plywood. Any proven ways to do this precisely? I already have tons of rivnuts throughout the van...this is the only thing I have accomplished installation wise.
 
Discussion starter · #86 ·
With the 1/8'' closed cell foam vapor barrier I am putting on all the walls I am concerned I would miss the rivnut hole even if I do a prior fitting to mark its position on the cabinet or plywood. Any proven ways to do this precisely? I already have tons of rivnuts throughout the van...this is the only thing I have accomplished installation wise.
There are several ways to do that. Here are some of them.
I used many rivnuts too. As noted, I drilled holes in my wood panelling a little oversized to give more room for error. Where they show on panelling, I used cupped "finish washers" with flat-head machine-screws (bolts) into the rivnuts.

Pro-tip with rivnuts: if you find some that spin in their holes, put the tool back on them and tighten them up some more.
 
With the 1/8'' closed cell foam vapor barrier I am putting on all the walls I am concerned I would miss the rivnut hole even if I do a prior fitting to mark its position on the cabinet or plywood. Any proven ways to do this precisely? I already have tons of rivnuts throughout the van...this is the only thing I have accomplished installation wise.
Hi,
What is your full wall stackup?

Gary
 
With the 1/8'' closed cell foam vapor barrier I am putting on all the walls I am concerned I would miss the rivnut hole even if I do a prior fitting to mark its position on the cabinet or plywood. Any proven ways to do this precisely? I already have tons of rivnuts throughout the van...this is the only thing I have accomplished installation wise.
Uh..Oh? Where is @RV8R and his Clecos when you need him?
 
There are several ways to do that. Here are some of them.
I used many rivnuts too. As noted, I drilled holes in my wood panelling a little oversized to give more room for error. Where they show on panelling, I used cupped "finish washers" with flat-head machine-screws (bolts) into the rivnuts.

Pro-tip with rivnuts: if you find some that spin in their holes, put the tool back on them and tighten them up some more.
I love these ideas! Super creative. Very helpful thread with the myths and the rivnuts. Thank you so much Steve!!!
 
HiLaurel:)

So, I guess you have the van sheet metal on the outside, then Thinsulate, then the closed cell foam, then wall paneling?

If so, then there are people (me included) who think that having a vapor barrier outside (van sheet metal) and another vapor barrier inside (closed cell) with the insulation between is a bad way to go. The reason being that if moisture (water vapor or liquid water) gets into the space between the two vapor barriers, then it has no way for it to dry out. The water might get into this space via small imperfections in the inside water vapor - its almost impossible to make a perfect water vapor, and studies on house water vapors show that even small holes in the barrier can admit a lot of water vapor. Or, water could get in from a small leak from outside or from a small plumbing leak. Then you have water between the two vapor barriers with no way to dry out.

If using a water vapor impermeable insulation like Polyiso, then it probably does not make much difference since any water vapor getting through the inside water vapor would not be able to penetrate the Polyiso. But, Thinsulate is highly permeable to water vapor or liquid water and the whole insulation layer could get damp or condense liquid water as the water vapor makes its way out to the cold van sheet metal.

So, that's my 2 cents - quite possibly wrong. Maybe others can chime in.
A bit of testing to show how water vapor behaves in insulation...

If you use the van in cold weather, putting the closed cell in over the ribs, but not between the ribs would be good in that it would break the thermal short circuit you get from outside to inside at the rib locations.

Gary
 
Gary is absolutely correct. In addition to the other ways of getting moisture in there, rime ice can form on the interior of the van’s sheet metal in cold weather. In warmer conditions, you can still get condensation.
 
Discussion starter · #93 ·
I agree. Vans are built and behave differently than houses. Some housebuilding methods and materials, like vapor barriers, can actually be counterproductive in vans. I didn't include it in my original list of myths because the subject doesn't come up as often as the others.

To me, an amateur boatbuilder, a van looks and behaves more like a boat than a house. A moving vehicle with a tiny living space encased in a water-proof shell with curved walls.
 
I like rivnuts for cabinets. They are pretty heavy and I think rivnuts are a lot more reliable and stronger than a tapped threat in thin sheet metal for tension (pull out) loads. Floor cabinets to walls try and pull away from the wall every time you round a corner. And the fasteners are hidden inside behind drawers and stuff, so I won't necessarily notice if a screw comes loose. Also upper cabinets are hanging, definitely like rivnuts for those. My uppers are glued together and hung on a single rivnut at each ceiling rib, and I can hang my full 180 lbs on the rim of the cabinet.

As for lining them up, maybe I'm just really good with a tape measure, but that worked fine for me. Thicker wood definitely needs oversize holes though. And if you attach curved paneling (like my 5mm plywood on rear doors), measurements won't be accurate. I used rivnuts on the rear doors so I can easily remove the paneling if I need to access in the door.
 
I like rivnuts for cabinets. They are pretty heavy and I think rivnuts are a lot more reliable and stronger than a tapped threat in thin sheet metal for tension (pull out) loads. Floor cabinets to walls try and pull away from the wall every time you round a corner. And the fasteners are hidden inside behind drawers and stuff, so I won't necessarily notice if a screw comes loose. Also upper cabinets are hanging, definitely like rivnuts for those. My uppers are glued together and hung on a single rivnut at each ceiling rib, and I can hang my full 180 lbs on the rim of the cabinet.

As for lining them up, maybe I'm just really good with a tape measure, but that worked fine for me. Thicker wood definitely needs oversize holes though. And if you attach curved paneling (like my 5mm plywood on rear doors), measurements won't be accurate. I used rivnuts on the rear doors so I can easily remove the paneling if I need to access in the door.
As for lining them up....Play Doh or the lip stick colors that I bought by mistake and don't really work well with my complexion. Waste not, want not.
 
I think it's safe to say that it's a myth that you must have a roof rack in order to install a solar panel. This installation method without a rack can work well. View attachment 107815
When our van was built we had a choice between a rack or not. I was considering it because I didn’t love the idea of direct mounting panels but in the end we didn’t get one. Not only saved us like 3K, but I think in the end we have a quieter drive & less drag.
 
Hi,
I used Sikaflex 221 to glue the right angle alumium pieces to the roof, but because I did not quite trust the Sikaflex alone, I added a single 1/4 inch stainless sheet metal screw at each of the four angles. I think Dennis's method is more secure, but I would have had to take the ceiling panels down to put in bolts.

This is a 10 year follow up on my panel...
If I was doing it again, I'd just rely on the Sikaflex - the tensile test I did on the Sikaflex indicates it has a lot of margin.
Others have used VHB tape with good results.

Gary
 
81 - 100 of 262 Posts