[GaryBIS]

The RAV4 hybrid is one of the longest range vehicles on the road. I think the only EV that will touch its 500 miles is the lucid air dream which will cost you $170k. Supposedly the REV will also do it. I expect that will also be north of $100k.

I know EV fans like to think that range is overrated, but consumer sentiment begs to differ. The refueling time differences make range more of a priority with EV's not less and your range ceiling only ever goes downhill. It's an easier trade-off to accept if you believe you're saving the planet, but for everyone else, people just don't want to wait that long for stops on road trips.

One thing that never gets discussed in the economics of it all is what will happen to the cost of gasoline as demand presumably drops from more and more EVs on the road. I'm sure that money grubbing politicians will try to tax the savings away. On the other hand, national gasoline taxes haven't been hiked in 30 years. It's just not a popular thing to do.

Hi RJ,
You are certainly entitled to your opinion on this, but I can tell you from my point of view having owned and driven a RAV4 and a Tesla Model Y on road trips that the Model Y is a far far nicer road tripper. Saving the world aside, I would pick the Model Y over the RAV4 for a road trip any day.

Given that the Model Y has become the best selling car in the world, I'd say a few people have come to the same conclusion.

Gary

 

[rjcarter3]

I don’t disagree with your point about mining. After the EV is made, the extent of the car’s carbon footprint all depends upon how the grid is powered (or unless you ever replace the battery). My hypothetical was just making the point that the government can regulate anything for any reasons be they real or illusory.

I know the model Y is very nice car. It’s the one that I will buy if and when the time comes. I was just strictly speaking about the range on the RAV4 hybrid which is world class.

Edit: I misspoke in the other post. The RAV4 Hybrid actually gets 580 miles of range on a single tank. Extremely impressive.

 

[Baxsie]

We have only had our EV-6 for a little less than a month. We love it.

And . . . range anxiety is still a thing. Not as bad as the first long-distance trip. But still there.

On one side of the balance is passing the gas signs and not caring what the price is. On the other side of the balance, you can pass 20 gas stations before there is one CCS fast charger.

Not everyone is going to make the leap right now. Perhaps better that they do not. Let's check back in 10 or 20 years. This is a long slow on-ramp.

@RV8R LOLs I can believe I asked you the exact same question. I'm an idiot that way,,, and thank you for reminding me. Peace.

 

[el Jefe]

Right now, probably so.

Arguably, even after the introduction of the Model T, ICE vehicles were a luxury. They are still a luxury to some significant part of the world population, and even in the "rich" US, we have population segments that can't afford a car at all - ICE or EV.

Current ICE cars go from cheap to insane. EVs are generally more expensive, they generally require home chargers to be economically effective. This, by extension, require homes and that is not a given in today's world.

Additionally, the public charging infrastructure is not there yet. We are hugely behind here in Eastern Washington compared to California and even Western Washington.

So, yes, just like when ICE vehicles came out, EV early adopters will tend to be willing to spend more on the new technology vehicle.

Eventually, ICE cars, trucks, and tractors replaced all their horse powered predecessors. It was not necessarily because people became fanboys if the new tech (although there were certainly some), it was simply because the gasoline versions were cheaper.

Economics will eventually be what powers the change to widespread EV adoption. Some people will jump on EV at the first chance, some people will hang onto ICE to their last.

As EV matures, becomes cheaper and approaches the same ease of use as ICE, the largest number of consumers will choose the cheaper route and get an EV.

Yes, governments will likely tilt the scales in the direction that aligns with whatever the current policy is.

For me, it is fun seeing the wave coming and to enjoy the ride.

Concerning solar, as lucky as I am here to have cheap hydropower, that same cheap electricity makes solar economically unfeasable. Two different times I have seriously looked into installing solar, an the math just doesn't work. For instance, the interest on the money needed to make about 1/4 of our power was more than the entire electric bill. On the other hand, in the sunnier southwest with it's more expensive power, solar is everywhere.

Like it or not, economics is what will drive the change.

Also, @RV8R, what is with the triple commas?

In todays regulatory climate, they giveth and they take it away. At whim. Notice a return on the investment last month, next month they may be charging you to steal the power your investment has produced.

So **** glad I live in a van with a reliable electrical power plant.

 

[HarryN]

@CarKeys I know it isn't much power, but I build some small "disaster relief power systems" that are packaged into a suitcase.

If you are in they area, I can loan one to you. It is enough for running a home refrigerator and light cooking.

It is a product that I developed after the hurricane wiped out the grid in Puerto Rico.

It is your basic 1 kW van power system packaged into a suitcase.

Harry

Harry Niedecken

re25.square.site

 

[CarKeys]

@CarKeys I know it isn't much power, but I build some small "disaster relief power systems" that are packaged into a suitcase.

If you are in they area, I can loan one to you. It is enough for running a home refrigerator and light cooking.

It is a product that I developed after the hurricane wiped out the grid in Puerto Rico.

It is your basic 1 kW van power system packaged into a suitcase.

Harry

Harry Niedecken

re25.square.site

@CarKeys I know it isn't much power, but I build some small "disaster relief power systems" that are packaged into a suitcase.

If you are in they area, I can loan one to you. It is enough for running a home refrigerator and light cooking.

It is a product that I developed after the hurricane wiped out the grid in Puerto Rico.

It is your basic 1 kW van power system packaged into a suitcase.

Harry

Harry Niedecken

re25.square.site

HarryN

Thank you for the kind gesture.
Our power is now on .

 

[FrankFrankFrank]

“Over the life of the car, with lower maintenance and lower fuel cost, the model Y will end up costing less than the RAV4.”

that may be true enough. But for total cost of ownership I think you’d have to count the Cost of all the Doritos, slim Jim’s, and baubles you buy as you sit around waiting for the charge.

 

[phil]

^^^^^ the hidden cost of an EV, your health ^^^^^^

good call, @FrankFrankFrank

 

[GaryBIS]

On the other hand, my dog really appreciates more walks on road trips

Gary

 

[GaryBIS]

Hi,
Here is an interesting idea for a camper version of the Tesla Cybertruck...

More here...

Not for everyone for sure, but it does have some interesting features
Standing headroom, Murphy bed, kitchen options, very long range, 4 wheel drive and 4 wheel steering, lots of ground clearance (16 inches?), 0 to 60mph ridiculously fast.

Given that there are going on 2 million people on the Cybertruck waiting list and the first one has yet to be delivered, I'd not be in a hurry.

Gary

 

[JohnForde]

So have you actually driven these distances? Based on your data, it looks like you're estimating what the total would be based on your battery size. How far did you actually drive to get your averages?

Usually about 200 miles. My longest was 299. The world record for vans is 311 miles.

 

[JohnnyRambles]

My best 5 legs (miles/kWh) X 177kWh capacity
2.66 X 177kWh = 470 miles
2.48 X 177kWh 438 miles
2.42 X 177kWh 428 miles
2.35 X 177kWh 415 miles
2.32 X 177kWh 410 miles

Usually about 200 miles. My longest was 299. The world record for vans is 311 miles.

Could you please clear up the discrepancy between these two claims about the Brightdrop? Are we correct in assuming the longer distances are simply estimates of what you think is possible? The difference between 299 miles and 477 miles on single charge is fairly substantial.

 

[JohnForde]

Could you please clear up the discrepancy between these two claims about the Brightdrop? Are we correct in assuming the longer distances are simply estimates of what you think is possible? The difference between 299 miles and 477 miles on single charge is fairly substantial.

Sure. You could say estimates. These are extrapolations of rate (mi/kWh) times volume (177 kWh in my battery).
With dozens of efficiency samples sized around 200 miles the efficiency estimates should accurately predict total range within a percentage point or two.

Starting with the battery at 100% State Of Charge (SOC) is easy but not a good habit for battery health. I usually begin at 90% SOC at home. When using DC fast chargers I top at 72% SOC . I do this for battery health.

At the other end of the spectrum, I often run down to as low as 5% SOC. That means going cross country I am using 67% of the battery per leg. I consistently get a little over 200 miles per leg, extrapolating to 300+ miles of range on the full battery. This is at 67 mph. To get 400 miles of range speed needs to be 50-52 mph.

The gauges are very accurate. I have enough experience with EVs (4 years) that my range anxiety is minimal.

Since DC Fast chargers with CCS connectors are relatively rare I have not yet tried a longer run. Running to out of electricity and getting to zero SOC would really suck. You better be carrying a generator and have a lot of time.

I have only had the Zevo 2 months and now here in MN the temps are in the 30s and the Zevo's efficiency is down, as expected, about 10% from summer.

When it is warm again next April or May I will do a run over 400 miles non-stop. With DCFChargers only every 75 miles or so I will probably carry a generator to eke out that last 0-75 miles.

I am working on an fold out aerodynamic tail fairing. I think it can increase efficiency by about 20% across the speed spectrum.

And yes, in MN XCel energy sells electricity to EV owners for 2.8 cents/kWh. There is no need to make an ecological argument to skeptics when the practical argument is so incredibly compelling.

Hope this helps.

John

 

[Baxsie]

. . . fold out aerodynamic tail fairing . . .

That sounds pretty cool. I'd love to see how you come up with something.

 

[dog_house]

Does the van have an inverter to let you tap into the main battery for 120v power like the Fords do? I assume it lets you use the HVAC when sitting still?

Before I paid $65k+ for another gas van and then dropped $8k+ in electrical and HVAC for the conversion a BEV van would make a lot more sense.

Now that the Tesla network is opening up the charging problem is pretty much solved if you have a 200 mile range. At that point it’s a practical choice and not an environmental one.

Those straight walls and ceiling are sweet…

 

[keeponvaning]

An interesting article FYI

3 examples of Electric Vehicle misinformation

BBC has an article out now titled ‘Three big reasons Americans haven’t rapidly adopted EVs’. All three reasons included false and misleading information. Affordability The article asserts that “the average price of an EV is going up, not down”. This is...

www.dailykos.com

 

[KilWerBzz]

Range anxiety, RAM has it solved in 2025 with unlimited ev range.

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger Has 'Unlimited' Battery Electric Range, Requires No Public Charging

"With unlimited battery-electric range, the Ram 1500 Ramcharger is the pinnacle of the light-duty pickup truck segment and the ultimate electric truck," says Ram's CEO.

insideevs.com

 

[rjcarter3]

An interesting article FYI

3 examples of Electric Vehicle misinformation

BBC has an article out now titled ‘Three big reasons Americans haven’t rapidly adopted EVs’. All three reasons included false and misleading information. Affordability The article asserts that “the average price of an EV is going up, not down”. This is...

www.dailykos.com

I’ve never heard anyone say they couldn’t buy an EV because there aren’t any SUV’s available - maybe if they were talking about the size of a suburban or expedition. The other two points flagged as misinformation are really just information.

In order to use Tesla supercharging to get out under an hour, you need to have a Tesla-supercharger compatible car and a short or no wait ahead of you at the supercharger station. That’s the best case scenario which is still worse than ICE. If it’s only L2 charging, you will indeed be waiting hours. On L1 charger at your destination let’s say, you’ll be waiting a day or longer.

EV’s are still noticeably more expensive than ICE counterparts, unless you’re buying something like a Chevy Bolt which doesn’t do supercharging. That’ll probably change over time, but that’s the situation now.

 

[Bromaster5]

Range anxiety, RAM has it solved in 2025 with unlimited ev range.

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger Has 'Unlimited' Battery Electric Range, Requires No Public Charging

"With unlimited battery-electric range, the Ram 1500 Ramcharger is the pinnacle of the light-duty pickup truck segment and the ultimate electric truck," says Ram's CEO.

insideevs.com

it has an onboard gasoline generator to charge battery pack for additional range. its designed to help the segment of vehicle owners where EV only won't work. the lines keep getting more blurry on what is eco- conscious. crawling back into my hole now until the future warrants viewing.

 

[phil]

it has an onboard gasoline generator to charge battery pack for additional range. its designed to help the segment of vehicle owners where EV only won't work.

squarely pointed at disappointed F150 Lightning owners or those sitting on the fence, I think

this is how Stellantis thanks Ford for the free market research