Yeah I don't think the website looks any different than when I originally ordered one. The good thing is that when I call support I do actually talk to a person. They told me that they were waiting on a new version that did adjust for altitude.

Is there a better way to test pump speed than just counting pulses per minute? I am assuming the new unit will have a pressure sensor that slows the pump rate and the volume per pump will remain the same. I would like to get a baseline before I take the old unit out so I can compare the new one at home(3,500ft) and at higher elevations.

 

Is there a better way to test pump speed than just counting pulses per minute? I am assuming the new unit will have a pressure sensor that slows the pump rate and the volume per pump will remain the same. I would like to get a baseline before I take the old unit out so I can compare the new one at home(3,500ft) and at higher elevations.

They say there's an app for everything. You need one that counts sound ticks. A reverse metronome?

 

Has anyone considered installing an inline needle valve to restrict fuel flow to prevent an overly rich mixture when using a gas heater at altitude?

View attachment 93230 View attachment 93231

 

Has anyone considered installing an inline needle valve to restrict fuel flow to prevent an overly rich mixture when using a gas heater at altitude?

My first thought is that would require very fine adjustment that would be impossible to get right unless you were monitoring exhaust gases. I also suspect it requires dynamic adjustments for every combination of elevation and pump speed. If not, why has this nut been so hard to crack?

 

I did some more reading and realize this probably wouldn't work across the ranges of pump speed and fan speed.

 

Latest news, I installed the new heater this weekend and it works! For now anyway. We will see what happens at elevation. The swap was pretty simple. I was really happy I had easy access to the heater. Probably could have done it in an hour but working alone there was a lot of moving from under the van to inside the van and back. Everything was compatible except the wiring harness. The plug into the heater was the same but the pins were not arranged the same. It was showing power but the heater would not turn on. I swapped out the wiring and was back in business. I am going to contact them and see if there are updated manuals for download and see if they can tell me how it supposedly adjusts for altitude.
The old heater running on high (level 7) at 3,500ft was pumping approx 59 times per minute. The new unit on high is pumping closer to 57 times per minute. I have not tested it anywhere else yet. Hoping I can try to run it around 7,000ft in the next month and I will see if the rate changes.

 

Any update on your Bison? Is it still working properly? At higher altitudes? I'm going through a bit of a customer service conflict with them! My current Bison status: no longer stays on for more than 10 minutes. (Bought it in August...issues ever since.)

 

FWIW, I just received this reply from Ilia Kondakov at GC here in BC:
"Yes, we have recently added a new version of heaters with AAA-automatic altitude adjustment to up to 5000 meters."

I also just got a quote from my closest GC dealer here in BC:
"A 12V gas version of a Bison 2000A bunk heater is just under $1000.00 (CAD) plus taxes. They do not have any in stock right now ,, they are hoping to get some in ,,, but do not have an eta at this moment."

I was just curious. My $200 diesel knock-off is working fine, but I wouldn't mind the convenience of gas instead. Maybe someday. In the meantime, I have the info to try manually adjusting ours for elevation next time we're above 5000ft.

 

The diesel ones are way under $100 US now!

 

They are currently just under $200 CAD up here, but that's still cheap compared to $1000. But it's also getting harder and harder to find true 2kW-size units (my size constraint), especially with controllers that support editing of min/max pump/fan speeds to enable manual altitude adjustments. I've also read ordering direct from China (AliExpress), like I did 4 years ago, has gotten super sketchy due to covid, supply chains, etc.

 

No update that provides any useful evidence. We have camped in it, we have run it, but we have not had any extended run times at any significant altitudes. Half hour run here and there, most times under 6,000ft. I am really sorry your issues just keep dragging on.
Just writing that makes me realize that I need to spend less time working and more time camping!

 

As I wrote on page one there is very little chance that this bison heater is anything but a dressed up $80 chinese heater with better marketing and customer service. Can you imagine how much effort and money it takes to develop and manufacture and bring to market a product like a diesel heater?

I'm guessing that there are 3 factories that make liquid fuel heaters in the world and they pump out either webastos, eberspachers, or the Chinese clone. The Chinese factory probably has lots of "customers" and makes very small modifications to the same basic heater so that it can be sold under many brand names and each can look a little unique. This means the bison could be a little "better" than the $80 Chinese version.

And at $600 why not just spend a little extra money on a webasto or eberspacher?

 

A

As I wrote on page one there is very little chance that this bison heater is anything but a dressed up $80 chinese heater with better marketing and customer service. Can you imagine how much effort and money it takes to develop and manufacture and bring to market a product like a diesel heater?

I'm guessing that there are 3 factories that make liquid fuel heaters in the world and they pump out either webastos, eberspachers, or the Chinese clone. The Chinese factory probably has lots of "customers" and makes very small modifications to the same basic heater so that it can be sold under many brand names and each can look a little unique. This means the bison could be a little "better" than the $80 Chinese version.

And at $600 why not just spend a little extra money on a webasto or eberspacher?

I would lOVE to have bought an $80 Chinese heater -- if they offered gasoline heaters. I did not want to deal with having to fill the extra tank. And, "a little extra money" for the brands you named is double the cost. People with those 2 brands also have had issues. I hate that kathy is having so much trouble with her heater, especially because she's my friend, and I talked up the heater, because I love mine and it works great. But I don't think it's a "dressed up" chinese heater. It's different technology. Those are diesel, this one is gas.

 

Yes, many of us have read the opinions on buying different heaters (diesel, webasto, etc) and we are left make our own decisions based on what we see. I saw the "little extra money" for a gasoline name brand as being an extra $1400 when I was shopping. That was not worth it to me.

 

Hello @MTrun , thank you very much for your experience. I'm on the way to buy one and your posts or very helpful ! Do you have a last update for me before I buy it ? Thank you !

 

It's different technology. Those are diesel, this one is gas

I'm not sure that’s true. With the VeLit, it's the same heater with one ECU for gas, another for diesel.

 

Hi @Lolaeliz

I suppose it would be in how you define “different technology”, but I have to agree with @MsNomer & @afox on this one whether gasoline, diesel, or even propane ,,, all the same tech & some differences in the equipment.

The basic tech is take the fuel into a sealed combustion chamber, introduce air ( oxygen ), & burn it & expel the burnt gases to the atmosphere. The computers & sensors & software might change & the propane units are a little different than the gasoline or diesel, but the “Tech” IMO is very similar.

Items manufactured in China I would think are pretty susceptible to “Corporate Espionage” or “Cloning” without permission. I’m no expert, but my understanding is even patents drop off over time or with some minor alterations & then you have cross international laws ,,, Couple all that with a say “German Company” needing cheap manufacturing or at least the same deal their competitors have & things flow to China. Even my Victron BMV712 Smart & their competitor had the same looking Shunt & Instrument face ( other than the corporate logo ) ,,, I could not tell them apart. But the software is different. Then again, I believe anything can get stolen in this World ,,, Cite “Stuxnet”

What chance does an engineering company have in competing & is it China or die on your sword, & then what guarantees do they have their “stuff” won’t be copied, or copied with slight variations ??

& if they build it in the country they are incorporated, how do they know another far away land, won’t buy one & reverse engineer it ?


TLTR ,,,, Same Tech ,,, Might be exactly the same product sometimes ,,, different software & computer maybe.

 

Like the Webasto the burner is different between the gasoline and diesel versions.

Then I stand corrected.

 

I was an early adopter of the Chinese heaters and bought a "gasoline version" from JP when they were first released for over $400. It didn't work at all. Seems they likely just put a gasoline sticker on a diesel heater. Hopefully bison is better than that.

My best advice is if you did get scammed to just move on. Don't waste time trying to reverse engineer the device to adjust fuel air ratio or expect much from the company or seller.

A second diesel tank is no big deal at all. Phil did all the work to find one that fits perfectly under the hood. You can get a diesel webasto on heatso for $800ish.

China or Germany doesn't matter but never expect much from a company that could disappear tomorrow and the only affect would be some disappearing web pages. Maybe bison is more than that, idk. There's a reason there aren't a lot of products with negative reviews, those products get taken down and restarted with different stickers and some promotional reviews. Its a tough world to be a consumer in. People think online shopping has resulted in so much convince but in reality a ton of research is needed before you buy anything and I don't think shoppers have actually saved time, if they have and they're buying stuff willy nilly they've probably got boxes full of garbage. In person stores wouldn't actually carry the crap they sell on amazon, in person stores curate the products they sell. Even Walmart is 10x better than amazon. They don't really sell anything thats absolute garbage in a Walmart. Amazon reminds me of going to flea market in Indonesia, buyers really need to beware.

 

Does yours have the automatic adjustement mode? Ours does and has a sticker on the main unit, something like "automatic plateau mode"... never tested it so I can't speak to how well it works.

 

A second diesel tank is no big deal at all.

Herein lies perhaps the biggest disagreement on the subject.

 

afox said:
A second diesel tank is no big deal at all.

Herein lies perhaps the biggest disagreement on the subject.

Yup. To me it was the deciding factor.

We really live in a Global Market.

Definitely a global market. And the thing is, as America starts to produce more at home, as a result of supply shortages during the pandemic, other countries are effected because our purchasing power is built into their economy.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I did add some new info on the thread I started about our Bison...https://www.promasterforum.com/threads/while-we-wait-for-tech-support-any-ideas-bison-heater-control-screen-wont-turn-on.103369/page-2#post-838212

 

My heater is a Webasto and 3 years in, most camping above 6000', no issues. I did lean out the unit per FarOutRide. As for four season camping, Mine does ok when it was 14f outside, but it was full tilt all night.

I'm super happy that I don't have to mess around with diesel or propane: simplicity and fewer points of failure. Electricity is just plain simpler and cleaner.

 

Has any of you gas Bison heater owners ever have the E10 error, if so how did you resolve it? Recently we are having this issue. I have cleared the code and comes back again.
Anyone know how to do the test and where I find the part?

 

Normally it means it does not establish a flame after 2 tries starting. Does it do it all the time or occasionally?

 

Are you smelling gasoline when it tries to start? Do you get white smoke? Do you get short bursts of combustion?

 

No gas smell, never noticed any smoke or actual heated exhaust from it. Just the usual ticking of the pump that it has always made since installed.

 

What I would try is remove the fuel line from the heater, attempt to start and see if it dispenses gasoline...

 

I figured you'd suggest that. I am stuck working on it outside in the cold (just like you, winter in Canada). I guess I might have to wait for a bit warmer day in hopes of not breaking the fuel line.
You figure it might be the pump not delivering fuel?
Just curious - would I blow something up if I was to attempt to blow fuel line from the fuel tank towards the pump (thinking there might be something stuck in line)? Blow something up I mean internally in the pump, too much pressure. Was thinking of using one of those aerosol cans to clean keyboards off ?? If that would have enough pressure vs too much from an actual garage air compressor?

 

I figured you'd suggest that. I am stuck working on it outside in the cold (just like you, winter in Canada). I guess I might have to wait for a bit warmer day in hopes of not breaking the fuel line.
You figure it might be the pump not delivering fuel?
Just curious - would I blow something up if I was to attempt to blow fuel line from the fuel tank towards the pump (thinking there might be something stuck in line)? Blow something up I mean internally in the pump, too much pressure. Was thinking of using one of those aerosol cans to clean keyboards off ?? If that would have enough pressure vs too much from an actual garage air compressor?

Normally it dispenses gasoline and you get no smoke the exhaust should reek of raw gasoline.

These things are like engines; they need gasoline, air and a ignition source. If it draws 10 amps or so your glow plug works.

I am not sure you can blow through the pump but normally if it clicks it should work; it's the piston that you hear.

 

Lets say for argument sake - I get line off, it pumps fuel to me. What you figure the next diagnostic sequence would be? Something electrical within the unit?

Is the only service location for General Components the one near you Pierre? Think its Laval area? You never heard of one in Eastern Ontario?

Wait... I take that back.... there is this one!

Perhaps there is hope, can send the wife there vs having to go to Montreal with her and take a day off work. Pretty sure she wouldn't do Montreal in the winter in a van. I'd likely need to pick her up at the police station on charges of road rage or something!

 

Any suggestions on how to properly test the glow plug? Which wire is which inside?

Hmmm.. ok, thanks for checking that Pierre. Appreciate that.

 

The easiest if you have a way to monitor your battery current is to try and start the unit. If it draws 10 amps or so while trying to start the glow plug works.

Otherwise you need to remove the unit, remove the ecu and check the glow plug resistance but checking the heater current is much easier!

 

I sent an e-mail to the place in Cantley to see if they offer service or if they are just a sales location only? Its closer than Laval drive. I also asked them too if they had any suggestions beyond what you have already suggested.

 

Guess I'll try out that fancy app thing on the phone to see what it says on start up! Thanks Pierre, see how it goes.