How much is it a foot?

 

$8.88

 

You could always use 1$ bills, they would probably look nicer and you wouldn't need to cover them up. As an added bonus if you run short at the toll booth or Mickry D's you could just peel a few off!

 

Any advice on vapor barriers, and where to put them relative to the insulation?

 

Thank you all for the informative posts and discussion. Let met try to answer some questions:



When a van becomes a living space, the moisture from breathing, possibly cooking and just entering the van with wet feet or gear/clothing can increase the moisture content of the air in the van. We feel that it is important to keep this moist air from entering the wall cavities by using a moisture barrier behind the interior panels. Reflectix works well for this because it is easy to install and stays put with foil tape. The foil tape can also be used to cover smaller holes in the sheetmetal. Even w/o an adjacent air space, the Reflectix will add some R value.

In the year 2014 why is there not an accepted method to do this properly?

Thinsulate is being used by luxury vehicle and boat manufactures. It is engineered for vehicles.

Any advice where to look for more ideas..

This documents discusses insulating metal buildings:
http://www.impact3d.com/Metal_Building_Condensation_Fact_Sheet.pdf

This stuffSM660L seems about the best yet?

We believe so. Everyone has been very satisfied with it. And it's a great selling feature.

I haven't come across something so confusing since I started to use the Internet years ago!!!

It can be confusing. There is some lack of understanding and certainly a lot of opinions in the DIY community. We look for solutions in the engineering world.

The thinsulate seems to be a pretty good material. With more money and a bit more indepedent information on it I might have tried it myself but I have more time than $$.

Although not a cheap material , Thinsulate can be cost effective because it can reduce the need for Dynamat and other heavy and expensive sound treatments.

The 3M Thinsulate SM600L seems like a great material to use but I don't believe it is the best bang for your buck since it was designed more for acoustic control in vehicles than R-value.

The SM600L has an R value or 5.2 which can be increased with a Refletix moisture barrier. Sound and Thermal insulation in one.

Insul-bright cost $96 for an entire bolt (40 yds x 45 inches wide). I have lots left over that I am using for a multi-layer fabric divider between the cabin and the cargo area.. http://www.warmcompany.com/ibpage.html

Thank you for posting. That material would be great for some window covers. It's 1/8th as thick as Thinsulate SM600L so would need a lot of layers to equal the R-value and noise abatement.

I think that is a pretty good way to stop what is usually called a thermal-bridge. It acts as a block to keep cold/heat from using the studs in a wall as a way past the insulation in the cavities. Actually a pretty good idea considering that all the metal studs/structure will pass quite a bit of cold/heat right through to the interior.

Too bad there isn't a way to put it between the skin and the structure. I know there's a bit of that foam product from the factory in many places already but this would be great.

Thermal bridging can be a problem when using metal framing against the interior sheet metal. Plastic spacers or 3M VHB tape will reduce the heat conduction.
Most vans have the outer sheet metal bonded to the inner structure with polyurethane structural adhesives so there is already some level of thermal isolation. Textured surfaces do not feel as cold to the touch as smooth ones so the choice of interior materials and finish is important.

Thank you again for all the information and questions. We would be happy to send samples so you can do your own evaluation. Please call, email or send a PM.

-Hein
heinvs ----- @ ---- impact3d --- .com
54l 49O 5O98 (Pacific time)

 

I ordered from Hein and was pleased with the service. Their price is better than anywhere I have seen ($1.78/ft^2--I looked around for a while and even started a thread about getting someone to share with me to cut down the cost) and it does expand to about 2" thick.

A 136" high top, if you use 1 layer of insulation, requires about 30 ft of this insulation (about 145 ft^2). Some of the spacing between body panels and frame in the back are fairly thick, you could double up this area, requiring about 230 ft^2 (or 47 linear ft). So more expensive than fiberglass, but not too unreasonable given the benefits (in my opinion--I did a lot of research before settling on the thinsulate. I'd rather spend a little extra now than have to redo it later).

I've been tacking it in place with a combination of industrial velcro (the industrial adhesive can withstand the heat in direct contact with metal) and hot glue (connecting the velcro to the scrim of the insulation) until I can build the walls to hold it in. I'm planning to cap it with reflectix prior to putting in the walls. I don't know that this is the best way, but it seems like the consensus view of the builds I've looked at.

 

So your insulation will ultimately be attached to the interior panel, not the van wall? I am having a hard time being convinced that's not the best way.

 

I have been trying to figure out the best way to insulate a van for many months now...

Google this, Google that, You Tube this channel, that channel . There must be thousands and thousands of vans built or have been built with insulation in the last 50 years or so..

In the year 2014 why is there not an accepted method to do this properly?

Have I not hit the right Internet site yet?

I see fiberglass in vans, cotton cloth etc, that stuff would seem to be a negative right away due to water intrusion.

I read about spraying the entire van, then comments about off gassing, insulation crumbling after time, van walls getting buldged out in the insulation spraying process..

Any advice where to look for more ideas..

This stuffSM660L seems about the best yet?

I haven't come across something so confusing since I started to use the Internet years ago!!!!

 

Google this, Google that, You Tube this channel, that channel . There must be thousands and thousands of vans built or have been built with insulation in the last 50 years or so..

And millions (?) of homes built. Same issues. Lots of materials, principles, theories and beliefs. Nothing is perfect. Nothing is a 100% correct.

Sounds like you have done a lot of homework. So weigh the facts on materials, what you want to achieve, set your goals and go for it.

The thinsulate seems to be a pretty good material. With more money and a bit more indepedent information on it I might have tried it myself but I have more time than $$.

My choice was a dampener to reduce panel noise ( Second Skins Damplifier), then closed cell foam to add noise reduction and thermal insulation. The foam will also act as a pretty good vapor barrier for me. Is it the best vapor barrier? No, but I don't intend to use my van for a camper so I'm not overly worried about moisture. It will certainly be much better that what it has now - nothing. It will take me a bit more time to put in several layers of 1/2 inch foam but it will be cheaper for me.

 

I used styrofoam sheets cut to fit and wrapped in Insul-bright fabric* made of hollow core polyester fibers and mylar. Inexpensive and effective. Also poked polyester fiberfill into all the crevices.


Insul-bright cost $96 for an entire bolt (40 yds x 45 inches wide). I have lots left over that I am using for a multi-layer fabric divider between the cabin and the cargo area.. http://www.warmcompany.com/ibpage.html

 

I used styrofoam sheets cut to fit and wrapped in Insul-bright fabric* made of hollow core polyester fibers and mylar. Inexpensive and effective. Also poked polyester fiberfill into all the crevices.


Insul-bright cost $96 for an entire bolt (40 yds x 45 inches wide). I have lots left over that I am using for a multi-layer fabric divider between the cabin and the cargo area.. http://www.warmcompany.com/ibpage.html

Hi I know you posted this a few years ago the link doesn’t work anymore do you know where else I can get this stuff for cheap?

 

Check out this material, I am going to use the aerogell between the metal ribs and the panels to maximize the insulation. I currently use aerogel in our trailer for window covers at night. I did glue a thin layer of fabric over it.
http://www.jetsongreen.com/2010/02/aerogel-ultra-thin-super-insulation.html

 

Expensive. And you still need something else to handle sound dampening.

 

Originally Posted by zwarte View Post
Insul-bright cost $96 for an entire bolt (40 yds x 45 inches wide). I have lots left over that I am using for a multi-layer fabric divider between the cabin and the cargo area.. http://www.warmcompany.com/ibpage.html


Thank you for posting. That material would be great for some window covers. It's 1/8th as thick as Thinsulate SM600L so would need a lot of layers to equal the R-value and noise abatement

Hein -

Wrapped around styrofoam, it is not only an excellent insulator but way cheaper than the thinsulate you are hawking.

 

He's selling thinsulate in the classified section, why the bashing? It has it's advantages. I may want some someday. It would be great to have a thread in the build & conversion section discussing the various insulation & sound dampening methods.

 

Another type of insulation to look into is Rock Wool. This has been used in AirStream trailers for years. It has good a R rating, great sound deadening and water has little effect if it gets wet. A bag of 2x4 has 8 pieces 24" x 48"x 3 1/2". Using a long bread knife slit them in half will give you 16 pieces 1 1/2" thick by 24x48 or 128 sqft all for about $55.00 at a home center.

For more info on Rock Wool;
http://www.roxul.com/

 

OK I guess I wasn't thinking Thinsulate was calculated in "thickness" versus foam and other common insulation materials, which are calculated per "inch". Since SM 600L is around 2" thick that means you can only fit one layer in the wall cavity of our vans. So, that would mean 5.2 is the best you can get with this SM 600L, right? You would definitely need other thinner materials to use in addition to increase the R-Value. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

An inside moisture barrier of Reflectix bumps up the R-value. There are significant losses through the windows/windshield so super-insulting doesn't really pay off. The advantage of Thinsulate is that it offers sound and thermal insulation. Here's a nice quote from the Sprinter forum regarding sound deadening.

Sound deadening 101. In the order that you would install in the vehicle:

CLD: Constrained Layer Damper. Self adhesive material that is installed directly on vehicle panels. This is all your products like Dynamat, Second Skin, etc. These are relatively lightweight (~.35lb/sq ft) aluminum foil backed product. The purpose of CLD is to reduce vibration of the vehicle panels, ~25% coverage is effective.

CCF: Closed Cell Foam. The foam is used as a decoupling layer to stop objects from conducting vibration, that's all. No good at blocking or absorbing sound.

MLV: Mass Loaded Vinyl. This is the material that actually blocks sound, which is simply a function of the mass of the product (1lb/sq ft). Lead sheet is also very effective. This is where you want 100% coverage to effectively block the most sound. Generally anything below the glassline is going to be sealed in MLV, any gaps in the MLV should be sealed by overlapping a strip of MLV and fixing with contact cement. Anything from the windows up isn't really worth it since glass is always going to be the weak link, and there's not much noise coming from above anyway.

Absorbing material: This could be Thinsulate or similar (Thinsulate seems to be pretty darn good tho). This can be used to fill any voids, under the headliner etc. Since it's lightweight it's a good to use on the roof. Thinsulate is an excellent decoupler as well as thermal insulator. It will help with external noise as well as absorb reflected sound from inside.

 

Yeah I read that on Sprinter Source.

Reflectix has been complained about for years due to their published R-Value numbers. The R-Value of 4.2 or 6 that is claimed is not for the Reflectix itself but the assembly, which requires a perfect 3/4" air space. Otherwise the R-Value=1. I don't know how anyone achieves a 3/4" airspace everywhere you need to install Reflectix in a van. HVAC installers must place plastic spacers every two feet to ensure a 3/4" airspace.

 

Its also worth mentioning that the Thinsulate , while not needing an airspace to maintain it's R value, will lose its R value if it is pinched between an interior panel and a bulkhead, in an effort to reduce thermal bridging.

It does sound like a great product on ceilings, upper walls and headliners.

 

Ceiling vents also loose a lot of heat when it is cool. Made a cover for these in our trailer with the pink 3/4 foam. Also bought enough aerogell in 10mm thickness to cover one window as an experiment. Big difference in temperature with your hand up against the aerogell versus the reflectix type stuff. The driver doors need to also be insulated as well as the cab floor and ceiling. The 2000 E-150 I have actually had no insulation on the door step and a big drain hole. Only took me 9 years to figure out why there always was a bit of a draft driving in the cold.

 

For what it's worth, sound deadening is about dead last on my list of wants and insulation isn't that far behind it. I put closed cell foam on my walls only because they were open. I just cut out pieces from 2" 4x8 sheets to fit as tight as I could. I didn't fill any small holes or opening, it's a steel van, all the insulation in the world is only a futile, expensive excise as far as I'm conserned. I would never use expanding foam under any circumstances! But then I don't plan to cam in freezing temps and I hate AC!

To each their own, I say

 

Can this be used under a floor? will it hold up to the load of people walking on it?

 

No. Thinsulate should be used in areas where it can expand into the irregularities found inside vehicle walls and ceilings. It could be used under a floor that is supported with firing strips. The material comes off the roll somewhat compressed and will regain it's loft when installed. It is great for covering exposed wheel wells because the scrim layer protects the Thinsulate and looks good too. Below is a photo. Gorilla tape sticks to the scrim layer.

 

Road noise is a significant cause of driver fatigue. Driving in a quiet van where you can carry on a relaxing conversation is really nice when traveling long distances. And stealth camping in noisy environments (truck stops and rest areas) is much more pleasant.

 

Or, you can just take your hearing aid out! Does wonders for marriages also

 

Happy new year everyone. We just ordered more master rolls from 3M and currently have SM600L in stock ready to ship. Please call or write for more info.

 

Hey Hein, I camp at Viento State Park. If you guarantee that I won't hear the train horns anymore at night, I buy

Happy New Year!

 

Hey Hein, I camp at Viento State Park. If you guarantee that I won't hear the train horns anymore at night, I buy
Happy New Year!

Hello Guy, That is a tall order. If insulating the van doesn't make it quiet enough then I might suggest lining a cardboard dog house box that you can place over your pillow at night.

 

FWIW, I just received my order of 30 ft from Hein. Except that the #%^# FedEx guy left it by the garage door (uncovered and non-obvious), then reported he had left it at my front door (covered and obvious), it was a perfect transaction. I'm looking forward to getting started.

 

What size PM do you have, and are you using the Thinsulate throughout?? I am trying to determine how much I need.....I have a 136 low roof on order. Thinking about using something else for the roof....based on what I have read, the Thinsulate product may be too thick for that area??

Thanks!

 

I have a 136” HR. Thinsulate is for walls and doors. Given that i will install the max window possible, there will be little, if any, room for insulation in the mid-section panels, so just the upper and lower--and wheel wells.

I decided not to use Thinsulate in the ceiling because the height available is less than the thickness of Hein's Thinsulate, so it would get crushed, thus lessening its performance. I will use 1" polyiso board on the ceiling.

 

I think it would be alright in spaces down to 1". It comes off the roll at about that thickness and then expands gently to fill into all areas. This characteristic does a good job dampening resonance in sheetmetal panels so less need for Dynamat, etc.

 

I spoke with my 3M rep and asked if there is a performance degradation if the Thinsulate SM600L is not at full thickness. He said there would be some reduction in performance but it would still be better than a thinner (lower grams/sq m) version of the material.

 

Hein--Thank you for the info.

 

Which means R-Value between 3.8 and 5.2. One-inch Polyiso is 6+.