[tschwart]

I used both DAP Weldwood and 3M Fastbond 30NF Neutral (not the green stuff) contact adhesives to bind laminate to plywood in our build. They both seemed to work well, but, being water based, the 3M Fastbond was much easier to work with. I just used a small roller to apply the adhesive to the plywood and the laminate.

Great news thanks for the specific info.

 

[tschwart]

As much as I dislike plastic counter tops, laminate is the most waterproof. Apply it over good Baltic Birch or marine ply and seal the hell out of edges and backside with epoxy or similar coating. Should last as long as the van.

I am skeptical of the 'vibration' deamination. Horse saddles are full of Barges Contact Cement. Never had a saddle fall apart or even think about delaminating.

Tanks so glad I checked with the forum to get actual info.

 

[tschwart]

I’m trying to remember. I never contemplated that vibration could be a problem and it hasn’t been. DAP or Weldwood contact cement, I think, but I may have cheated and used 3M 90.

I highly recommend laminate as a surface.

Thanks for responding I am sooo glad I checked because I thought laminate made reasonable sense. Enjoy.

 

[MsNomer]

This is what @MtBiker was describing:

Layers:

laminate
adhesive
ply
adhesive
laminate

When one surface of ply can absorb more moisture than the other, ply warps. With this construction, neither side of the ply can absorb moisture.

 

[el Jefe]

So you are saying to not use the silicone roll for a countertop or just the adhesive 5200. Do you have any experience with the silicone that comes in rolls and get glued down to become a countertop?

I don't have experience with the silicone roll you are describing but I am positive in your application you should consult with the manufacturer of the silicone mat and their recommended adhesive/bedding.

Speak Mandarin?

 

[tschwart]

This is what @MtBiker was describing:

Layers:

laminate
adhesive
ply
adhesive
laminate

When one surface of ply can absorb more moisture than the other, ply warps. With this construction, neither side of the ply can absorb moisture.

Ahhh creating a sealant sandwich type thing by covering both sides. Thanks for the clarification and details. I was going to use .5 pine ply and now I will cover both sides if I am understanding you correctly.

 

[tschwart]

I don't have experience with the silicone roll you are describing but I am positive in your application you should consult with the manufacturer of the silicone mat and their recommended adhesive/bedding.

Speak Mandarin?

It was on the manufacturers page that we saw this type of glue. to use for the silicone mat. But since the forum had such positive things to say about the formica application we may just do that? Thanks

 

[FarmByForty]

Apply it over good Baltic Birch

For those of us converting in a post-covid logistics & russia stuff world, do you have any recommendations for a substitute? I see BB mentioned a lot on the forum in pre-covid build threads, but I think that type of plywood might be difficult to find or inaccessible for those of us converting these days. Is MDF better worse, in your opininon? Or just go with regular pine plywood?

Horse saddles are full of Barges Contact Cement.

Can confirm that while my saddle never fell apart, I personally I have fallen off of it many times. But I'll chalk that up to operator error and the "goat" I was riding.

 

[el Jefe]

Yep. Ideally at the right moisture content.

Look at an open bunk of plywood at a supplier outside of the SW. The top sheet is usually twisted doesn't lay flat. The sheets directly below are usually flat. Rub your dry palm on the surface of the top sheet. Your palm feels dry. Rub your palm on the second sheet.??

Buy really good plywood from a custom cabinet maker focused supplier and ask one of their technical folks for advice. Seems hard to find in some parts of the country.

 

[el Jefe]

For those of us converting in a post-covid logistics & russia stuff world, do you have any recommendations for a substitute? I see BB mentioned a lot on the forum in pre-covid build threads, but I think that type of plywood might be difficult to find or inaccessible for those of us converting these days. Is MDF better worse, in your opininon? Or just go with regular pine plywood?


Can confirm that while my saddle never fell apart, I personally I have fallen off of it many times. But I'll chalk that up to operator error and the "goat" I was riding.

Get your ass on that ATV. That horse don't like you no more.

Last time I was on a horse, was the beginning of a six month adventure. I no longer favor hospitals, doctors, the local last rights pastor(on call), peeing in a ridulous contraption(physics people..) and of course....in my experience, horses have never to my knowledge have expressly consented to be ridden...especially that "fresh meat in the lobby" as we described that unbroken newby AND the newby hand. Funny after the fact.

 

[DewaltDisney]

For those of us converting in a post-covid logistics & russia stuff world, do you have any recommendations for a substitute? I see BB mentioned a lot on the forum in pre-covid build threads, but I think that type of plywood might be difficult to find or inaccessible for those of us converting these days. Is MDF better worse, in your opininon? Or just go with regular pine plywood?

You might look into waterproof mdf… it’ll beat back small amounts of moisture. (I wouldn’t submerge it or anything…)

 

[rumpus]

I used 3M 30NF contact adhesive to attach phenolic countertops (similar to Formica) in my own van, and it has held without fail for 5+ years. We also used contact adhesive for a couple of our early company builds, thought not strictly with Formica, but with other laminate products. The only time I've had an issue was when using the DAP Weldwood (the super toxic stuff) and I had a countertop release after being laminated. Maybe the Weldwood was old or a bad batch, but I certainly won't use it ever again, especially when 30NF works so well and is WAY less messy and toxic.

These days we do all our countertop lamination using epoxy instead of contact adhesive--I'm not willing to even take a chance on having a lamination release again. The epoxy is bomb-proof, no way that laminate is ever coming off! We're usually laminating with a product like Paperstone instead of Formica, but the application process would be almost the same. There's a little more prep involved when using epoxy, because the laminate needs to be held in place while the epoxy cures. You can do this with a sheet of plywood over the top and weights, even buckets of water. The less DIY-friendly way to apply counters with epoxy is to vacuum laminate it, which is how we do it now. The vacuum process yields a perfect, void-free bond, but there are extra materials, tools, and set-up required.

Here's the last counter we laminated, 1/8" Paperstone to 1/2" Baltic birch ply. These two pieces were a total of 1344sq.in. of material, and at -15psi, that's 20,000 lbs of clamping force!

 

[el Jefe]

I used 3M 30NF contact adhesive to attach phenolic countertops (similar to Formica) in my own van, and it has held without fail for 5+ years. We also used contact adhesive for a couple of our early company builds, thought not strictly with Formica, but with other laminate products. The only time I've had an issue was when using the DAP Weldwood (the super toxic stuff) and I had a countertop release after being laminated. Maybe the Weldwood was old or a bad batch, but I certainly won't use it ever again, especially when 30NF works so well and is WAY less messy and toxic.

These days we do all our countertop lamination using epoxy instead of contact adhesive--I'm not willing to even take a chance on having a lamination release again. The epoxy is bomb-proof, no way that laminate is ever coming off! We're usually laminating with a product like Paperstone instead of Formica, but the application process would be almost the same. There's a little more prep involved when using epoxy, because the laminate needs to be held in place while the epoxy cures. You can do this with a sheet of plywood over the top and weights, even buckets of water. The less DIY-friendly way to apply counters with epoxy is to vacuum laminate it, which is how we do it now. The vacuum process yields a perfect, void-free bond, but there are extra materials, tools, and set-up required.

Here's the last counter we laminated, 1/8" Paperstone to 1/2" Baltic birch ply. These two pieces were a total of 1344sq.in. of material, and at -15psi, that's 20,000 lbs of clamping force!
View attachment 110037
View attachment 110038

Looks great. I personally would add fiddle rails to keep any errant water from dripping off the laminate. You only need the front and left side. Maybe sculpted with handholds?

 

[tschwart]

Wow thanks for the detailed answer and sharing of info. What is the brand of Epoxy do you use? I don't think we have a way to vacuum seal it so given that what would be your first suggestion for us be epoxy or 3m30NF?
Love the color of the Paperstone which I had never heard of. I will look into it.

Could I ask you another question on sealing up the wooden potty so it is protected from any spills on the inside? I got a number of suggestions ranging from shower membrane, to epoxy, to just urethane to a product called rubberize it. Any thoughts on how you would finish this?

By the way lovely cabinet. Is it painted and has that worked well? I was recently toying with the idea of paining the inside rougher side of our cabinets with some mold proofing in the paint. We are using pine. How did you finish the cabinet? Lovely looking.

Thanks. Happy travels.

 

[rumpus]

Wow thanks for the detailed answer and sharing of info. What is the brand of Epoxy do you use? I don't think we have a way to vacuum seal it so given that what would be your first suggestion for us be epoxy or 3m30NF?
Love the color of the Paperstone which I had never heard of. I will look into it.

Could I ask you another question on sealing up the wooden potty so it is protected from any spills on the inside? I got a number of suggestions ranging from shower membrane, to epoxy, to just urethane to a product called rubberize it. Any thoughts on how you would finish this?

By the way lovely cabinet. Is it painted and has that worked well? I was recently toying with the idea of paining the inside rougher side of our cabinets with some mold proofing in the paint. We are using pine. How did you finish the cabinet? Lovely looking.

Thanks. Happy travels.

We use West Systems epoxy, which is sourced from our local marine supplier, but there are several good brands of epoxy out there. Honestly, as much as I like the epoxy method, if you're doing a small project or a one-off, I'd suggest the 30NF. It's easier to use, easier to clean-up, and bonds immediately when applied correctly--no extended set-up time. Just watch a couple of good Youtube vids about how to layout and apply laminate with contact adhesive using the "stick/spacer method". This will ensure proper alignment of your laminate, and help avoid headaches. And spend the $20 to get a J-roller as well.

Paperstone (or Richlite, similar product) are great, but also expensive, and not available at your local home store. We use a lot of 1/8" Paperstone that we buy in 5' x 12" sheets--and that's a very awkward sheet of goods, believe you me! I like to laminate to plywood for countertops so that we can use mechanical fasteners (i.e. screws) to attach the countertops to the cabinets. Also, the edge detail can be quite lovely.

That particular cabinet is painted with a Benjamin Moore product called Skuffex. It's a rather tough latex paint, applies nicely and is easy to touch-up down the road.