With 400 miles of range on $6 of electricity who wouldn't love it! But my old Promaster with a Colorado camper van now must go. Cheap.
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I switched to a Brightdrop Zevo 600 electric van
JohnForde
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You could just as well ask why are Tesla superchargers so reliable - better than 99.5%?
Gary
Hi @JohnForde ,
I'm wondering if you have thought about these things in your conversion...
- Are you going to keep the partition between the cab and the back part?
- Are you planning to replace the passenger side jump seat with another seat?
- Do the walls/ceilings have insulation behind those nice white panels? If not, can you take them off, add insulation, and put them back?
- Does it look like its possible to add windows in the same sort of way you can add them to the PM?
- Its a bit different not having the sliding side door, and having the rollup back door - has this figured in your conversion plans?
- Do you plan to have a more or less conventional van house electrical system that is independent of the Brightdrop system, or do you plant to integrate the two in some way? Any thoughts on using the Brightdrop battery to supply camping power?
- You have driven both the PM and the the Brightdrop. How do they compare on noise, handling, performance, etc.?
I hope you are planning to do a build thread - ideally here, but if not, please let us know where.
Its so nice to have someone actually doing a practical electrical camper van! - thanks!
Gary
I'm wondering if you have thought about these things in your conversion...
- Are you going to keep the partition between the cab and the back part?
- Are you planning to replace the passenger side jump seat with another seat?
- Do the walls/ceilings have insulation behind those nice white panels? If not, can you take them off, add insulation, and put them back?
- Does it look like its possible to add windows in the same sort of way you can add them to the PM?
- Its a bit different not having the sliding side door, and having the rollup back door - has this figured in your conversion plans?
- Do you plan to have a more or less conventional van house electrical system that is independent of the Brightdrop system, or do you plant to integrate the two in some way? Any thoughts on using the Brightdrop battery to supply camping power?
- You have driven both the PM and the the Brightdrop. How do they compare on noise, handling, performance, etc.?
I hope you are planning to do a build thread - ideally here, but if not, please let us know where.
Its so nice to have someone actually doing a practical electrical camper van! - thanks!
Gary
@JohnForde I'm interested too. Thanks for the update.
My first concern, given our penchant for camping in cold weather, is house heat. I suspect that I would go with propane as my heat source.
Kinda goes against the whole electric bit :-(
On the other hand, energy conversion of propane to heat (in a well-designed device) is likely more efficient than gasoline to work. Neither is going to approach the electricity to work efficiencies though.
My first concern, given our penchant for camping in cold weather, is house heat. I suspect that I would go with propane as my heat source.
Kinda goes against the whole electric bit :-(
On the other hand, energy conversion of propane to heat (in a well-designed device) is likely more efficient than gasoline to work. Neither is going to approach the electricity to work efficiencies though.
I love the dog under the chair! You might consider a footrest ala barber chair for long trips. Having the legs dangle is not super comfortable.
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This place looks appropriate: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f298/
@keeponvaning I'm a little surprised that Vertical Scope does not have http://electriccampervanforum.com/ . Maybe if you suggest it they will double your pay ! Or maybe carve an electric camper sub-forum here? Downside: not all electric camper vans would be ProMaster. Upside: most of making a camper van is platform agnostic.
I have an 8Kw portable heater like this ($200). But how to use it? Set it on the ground outside and duct in the heat? For now I am just going to use electric blankets.
Attachments
400v Max rate is 120 Kw. But the curve is flat, maintaining 120 Kw through 72% SOC.The universal code word for thermodynamic energy
I wonder if the BrightDrop battery will allow 800v charging? In theory, you could charge at up to 350KW at the right DC Fast Charger.
This article seems to say that the Hummer (which uses the same pack) might be able to reconfigure at 800v:
GM reveals more technical details of its Ultium battery packs - Charged EVs
GM has big plans to release as many as 30 new EV models by 2025—the company claims that, by 2035, its only ICE vehicles will be heavy-duty trucks. The new Ultium battery system is at the heart of GM’s electrification strategy. GM says the Ultium system delivers a pack-level cost close to the...chargedevs.com
My wife's Tesla holds 150 Kw but only through 50% SOC. At 70% SOC the Tesla is down to around 80Kw
RV based on the BrightDrop:
www.groundedrvs.com
All that potential and they design a long, tight aisle and two puny windows.
“The interior living space dimensions of the G2 are 158" long, 76" wide, 78.5" tall (at tallest ceiling point).” (Length and width are pretty close to PM159”EXT if PM walls weren’t curved.)
The exterior vehicle dimensions of the G2 are: 290" long, 106.2" wide (including mirrors, 120" tall.
Grounded | 100% Electric Camper Vans
Fully electric camper vans for sustainable adventures. Go off grid in style with 1kW of solar, Starlink internet, large windows, and customizable furniture.
www.groundedrvs.com
All that potential and they design a long, tight aisle and two puny windows.
“The interior living space dimensions of the G2 are 158" long, 76" wide, 78.5" tall (at tallest ceiling point).” (Length and width are pretty close to PM159”EXT if PM walls weren’t curved.)
The exterior vehicle dimensions of the G2 are: 290" long, 106.2" wide (including mirrors, 120" tall.
They may very well start one when there is a demand but even if they increased my pay by a factor of 100 I’d still need another source of income to "retire"😜
The PM gas fill-up takes about 2 minutes since most pumps do between 10-15 gallons/minute.
Still some assumptions built into your 45 minute calc: That’s not 45 minutes until full, right? Just 80% or so? Also, it assumes that there’s a charger immediately available.
The problem with longer charge times compared to gas fill-ups is that it compounds wait times if others are ahead of you. It's probably not a problem now with EV’s comprising such a low percentage of cars on the road, and maybe charging infrastructure will always outpace demand. But, I do occasionally have to wait on short gas lines which would translate to very long wait times for EV’s.
None of these are dealbreakers, but it’s just a matter of planning and managing expectations. I like to get where I’m going as quickly as possible, and with a full bathroom on board, my maximum stop time is only a few minutes.
carkeys do some in depth research, fire risk is between 20 and 80 times greater for petrol and diesel vehicles, just look at all those scorch marks on the side of the highway. It is hard to determine ice fires because the powers that be don't log them to a central database.
Don't forget you drove your ice vehicle home on empty you said gas will be cheaper tomorrow, gas stations can't pump gas without volts.
Don't forget you drove your ice vehicle home on empty you said gas will be cheaper tomorrow, gas stations can't pump gas without volts.
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9,559 Posts
Thanks for that @GaryBIS
I suppose its true that you never know anything with absolute accuracy - even the acceleration due to gravity has a bit of uncertainty. Death & Taxes My Friend ,,, Nobody gets outta here alive ( & hopefully we don’t take the planet with us ).
I appreciate the info you wrote about on IPCC. I will attempt to educate myself a bit better on topic. I openly admit my biases & skepticism which is a product of my environment. I can over come them, but only after I have trust & whoever it is “IPCC” or other is proven to me. Any corruption, any lies, any difference of opinions within, anything like that has to be thoroughly exposed, including how the organization is funded, and to coin the phrase “The Source is Considered”. I have no difficulty believing in something “Objective”, however as soon as it is “Subjective” then I am starting down the slippery slope. Just the way I am built Gary, but I do not believe I was always this way. I am not a very trusting person, & especially with Governments.
So, submitting to “We have a World Crisis” ,,, “Climate Change” ,,, No What ? We need “Global Buy In” & everybody to do their part. Is anyone of us doing that?
Back to EV’s “Saving the Planet”. Where I submit this might be a path towards fixing the issue ,,, 60% of USA’s electricity is created by burning fossil fuels.
So here is the “Subjective” part from me; Know you have an impressive “Solar Array” @ your house & you get to top up your Tesla for free, but I assume that is not common in the USA. So if EV’s are typically charged from “The Grid”, then the Earth Saving Formula I submit to you is the same as “Personal Debt” ,,, Which is ,,, get rid of your highest interest rate loans first. In this case if you increase “Grid Use” with EVs then, the equation should be the worst environmental electrical energy used should be applied to EVs as fuel burned. I assume that is coal which is almost 20%. So if all EV use is less than 20%, by my equation all EVs burn coal. You can fault that logic just like getting rid of personal debt & your worse interest rate paid, but I won’t
It doesn’t mean it isn’t a step in the right direction, but we are not there yet in regards to the grid ,,, Stop burning gasoline & start burning coal is not the solution.
Is this to simplistic of a perspective ?
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1,701 Posts
Kilwerbzz : No in depth research needed . 4th day without electricity. Neighbors E.V. is D.O.A . He's driving his lady's ice vehicle until electric is turned back on .
Full tank of gas in my ice. No restrictions. Business as usual.
Todays mail .....Bad news for E.V.'s
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21 Posts
a quick goggling shows 33% of USA EV owners have rooftop solar, more in several other countries. this should continue to climb given residential solar adoption is increasing. add that to 80% of EVs being charged at home we end up with the realization that more EVs != more fossil fuel
Hi RV,
The point I was trying to make on who's data to trust (and did not do a very good job of) is that while everyone has their own set of biases and their own agenda, scientists have to work within the rules of the scientific method, and before any paper is published in one of the scientific journals, the work is peer reviewed and if the authors of the paper got sloppy and let their biases creep into the paper, they will be called out on it and the paper won't be published. No scientist wants to be put in this position - its not career enhancing. Scientists who falsify data to try to make some point lose their jobs and will have a very tough time finding another within the scientific community.
The other sources of info like politicians, media folks have none of this discipline - they can and do lie and make up stuff all the time.
Its a good point that while EV's don't produce any CO2 when driving, they are (mostly) charged on grid electricity that in part comes from fossil fuels that do produce CO2 emissions.
If we are to get to no CO2 emissions world, the grid has change to solar, hydro and nuclear generation. I think this is the biggest challenge - bigger than converting cars, vans and trucks to electricity. As some of the graphs you have posted show, this is happening - coal generation for example is way down.
Even without a clean grid, EV's reduce CO2 emissions. The Union of Concerned Scientists does a detailed study on this for the US and updates it every couple years. It shows for each region of the country what MPG a gasoline powered car would have to get to be as clean as a typical EV being charged on grid power. In my area (60% renewable grid now), the gas car would have to get 102 MPG
to match a typical EV. The study is cradle to grave and includes the (for now) greater CO2 emissions associated with making an EV vs and ICE car.
The full study is here...
Gary
I couldn’t disagree with this any more.
It’s certainly helpful for the scientific community to have you believe they are immune from political pressure, but we know that it’s not the case.
If you’re someone like Michael Mann, you’re feted as a hero and showered with all sorts of government grants, speaking gigs and other professional opportunities. If you’re Dr. Richard Lindzen, atmospheric physicist and former Director of meteorology at MIT, you’re called a quack and ostracized and possibly put yourself and your family at financial risk. Incentive structures work, and they bias everything, including science.
It helps the alarmist that the science here, such as it is, relies upon layers of unprovable assumptions. It’s entirely plausible that man has a major impact on the climate. I’s also entirely possible that the planet is naturally warming and man’s contribution is infinitesimal. Maybe the answer is somewhere in between. What I do know is that whenever a climate model fails to deliver, the answer is never “Do we have this completely wrong?” but “We know we’re right, so did the missing heat escape to space or was it absorbed by the oceans?” Imagine an AGW skeptic getting those kinds of absurd allowances.
First Fully Electric Fire Truck in the U.S. Boasts the Longest Electric Pumping Duration
The first fully-electric fire truck in North America will be delivered to the Mesa Fire and Medical Department in Mesa, Arizona.
www.autoevolution.com
2018 3500 EXT Conversion in CT (work) or TX depending on time of year
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1,364 Posts
Yes, the conversion of electricity into kinetic energy (or even thermal energy) is 90% efficient.
But what matters is the full cycle. If I burn natural gas in a turbine to turn it into electricity it is as low as 20% for a simple turbine (mostly these are peakers only operated to meet high demand) or up to 60% for a combined cycle plant (most utilities now). Ignoring transmission losses, the best complete cycle efficiency is about 60% x 90% = 54%
Add in transmission losses and you are looking at 40-50% which still beats 30% for a gasoline engine, but it isn't 90% versus 30%, they are not 3 times better, only about 50-100% better.
I believe we will have practical EVs in the next 10 years or so. For some uses we already do. In addition to my gas promaster, I have a plug in hybrid pacifica. Its the best of both words, I charge on a free nights plan, get 30 miles of driving on electric each day, and then 30mpg in hybrid mode. It can go over 500 miles if fully charged with a full tank of fuel. It also only uses a much smaller battery than a pure EV, so it saves on the lithium and other scarce resources. The downside is that it still has a gasoline engine to maintain and an electric system too. Pretty complex. Still, I like it and it suits me a lot better than a pure EV.
For a camper van that I drive on 1500-2000 mile trips a couple times a year, a battery electric vehicle will not work for me.
But if I need to replace my Subaru that pretty much I only drive around town, I might get an EV, charge it for free overnight, and save some money on my taxes. (Got the 7500 rebate on my Pacifica, thanks fellow taxpayers for the subsidy) I will probably be doing just that in a year or so when the kid turns 16 and appropriates the Subaru for herself.
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