Hi there, i know there has been mention of and discussion ofthe Dangel 4x4 Ducato in this forum before, but since it is from europe and no one in USA has got one or few ever seen it in teh flesh then remains a mystery.
Actually here in Europe, and where i am living in Switzerland in particular these Dangel 4x4 Ducato are not uncommon, the Swiss Postal service have used in them in teh recent past to support operation in snow and mountain roads.
So that is where my story with a Dangel Ducato began, because i bought a postal van used, hoping to build it into something of an adventure camper.
But the vehicle had many shortcomings which i fortunately realised quickly and on account of a small (but expensive to repair in switzerland) oil weep in the rear 90degree transfer box, - i had a good reason to return the vehicle two days after i bought it.
In that short time i disliked the Dangel 4x4 Ducato 2.3Litre (4meter=159" wheelbase) vehicle, hence i was happy to give it back to the dealer.
I will not bore you here further with the on-going story of the van i did afterwards buy, a Peugeot Boxer (same as Fiat Ducato) 136" wheelbase, with 3.0 diesel.
- this story is worth me opening a new discussion on this forum because i am taking the standard 2WD-FWD 'Promaster' and adding an electric drive to the rear axle, to provide a recovery assistance or off-road driving assistance but not as a highway operating hybrid. I am hoping to achieve the function with only 48volt and avoiding the expense and legalities of a high voltage on-road system.
The concept makes sense to me because i am a long time old school Toyota-Landcruiser(HJ61) owner for whom the concept of off-road involves to engage the transfer box and also to stop and step outside and lock the front wheel hubs, since the purpose of the old-school 4WD is not permanent but only intended on loose off-highway surfaces, which was why i disliked so much all that running gear in the Dangel and the way the Viscous clutch requires that already teh front wheels must be spinning until there is a torque transfer to rear proportional to the speed difference. Maybe it works okay if the driving style is one of continuously spinning the front wheels and maintaining momentum, ... this discussion can go on and on, ....i am sorry...
attached are some published picture scheme describing the Dangel 4x4 layout which is retrofitted on the Sevel x250/x290 Fiat Ducato and PSA vehicles, since 2006 -.
Because of the location of the standard vehicle fuel tank it excluded a central driveshaft to the rear differential, so Dangel designed the more elaborate layout of a pair of 90degree transfer boxes and a rear differential with unconventional side input.
The system operates automatically by virtue of a viscous coupling controlling torque transfer from front to rear.
Hence the system can be called permanent AWD.
However in normal driving with all wheels rotating approximately same speed there will be no torque transfer to the rear.
That is not unlike many other AWD. But is something not the same as 4WD for off-road.ept addinng
And yes, all of that added mechanical transmission is always spinning around all of the time doing nothing except adding >150+kg of extra weight.
You might start to understand why i disliked the vehicle i had bought. Especially how it sagged low to the ground on 15" wheels and with a tired old suspension and a hard worked 2.3litre diesel engine. - IMPORTANT to note for USA market, the Dangel 4x4 is only available mated thru a PTO designed for the Fiat(Iveco/FPT) 2.3litre diesel engine. There was never one developed for the 3.0 litre diesel and certainly not for the 3.6litre pentastar automatic in the Promaster.
Actually here in Europe, and where i am living in Switzerland in particular these Dangel 4x4 Ducato are not uncommon, the Swiss Postal service have used in them in teh recent past to support operation in snow and mountain roads.
So that is where my story with a Dangel Ducato began, because i bought a postal van used, hoping to build it into something of an adventure camper.
But the vehicle had many shortcomings which i fortunately realised quickly and on account of a small (but expensive to repair in switzerland) oil weep in the rear 90degree transfer box, - i had a good reason to return the vehicle two days after i bought it.
In that short time i disliked the Dangel 4x4 Ducato 2.3Litre (4meter=159" wheelbase) vehicle, hence i was happy to give it back to the dealer.
I will not bore you here further with the on-going story of the van i did afterwards buy, a Peugeot Boxer (same as Fiat Ducato) 136" wheelbase, with 3.0 diesel.
- this story is worth me opening a new discussion on this forum because i am taking the standard 2WD-FWD 'Promaster' and adding an electric drive to the rear axle, to provide a recovery assistance or off-road driving assistance but not as a highway operating hybrid. I am hoping to achieve the function with only 48volt and avoiding the expense and legalities of a high voltage on-road system.
The concept makes sense to me because i am a long time old school Toyota-Landcruiser(HJ61) owner for whom the concept of off-road involves to engage the transfer box and also to stop and step outside and lock the front wheel hubs, since the purpose of the old-school 4WD is not permanent but only intended on loose off-highway surfaces, which was why i disliked so much all that running gear in the Dangel and the way the Viscous clutch requires that already teh front wheels must be spinning until there is a torque transfer to rear proportional to the speed difference. Maybe it works okay if the driving style is one of continuously spinning the front wheels and maintaining momentum, ... this discussion can go on and on, ....i am sorry...
attached are some published picture scheme describing the Dangel 4x4 layout which is retrofitted on the Sevel x250/x290 Fiat Ducato and PSA vehicles, since 2006 -.
Because of the location of the standard vehicle fuel tank it excluded a central driveshaft to the rear differential, so Dangel designed the more elaborate layout of a pair of 90degree transfer boxes and a rear differential with unconventional side input.
The system operates automatically by virtue of a viscous coupling controlling torque transfer from front to rear.
Hence the system can be called permanent AWD.
However in normal driving with all wheels rotating approximately same speed there will be no torque transfer to the rear.
That is not unlike many other AWD. But is something not the same as 4WD for off-road.ept addinng
And yes, all of that added mechanical transmission is always spinning around all of the time doing nothing except adding >150+kg of extra weight.
You might start to understand why i disliked the vehicle i had bought. Especially how it sagged low to the ground on 15" wheels and with a tired old suspension and a hard worked 2.3litre diesel engine. - IMPORTANT to note for USA market, the Dangel 4x4 is only available mated thru a PTO designed for the Fiat(Iveco/FPT) 2.3litre diesel engine. There was never one developed for the 3.0 litre diesel and certainly not for the 3.6litre pentastar automatic in the Promaster.
