[Van vs Wild]

 

[MJaben]

For blind holes, I had to put a washer onto the plusnut (threaded on and up against the flange before inserting into the hole) to prevent spinning, which suggests the issue for me was thickness of sheet metal. For what it's worth....

 

[diytech]

Glad you're making progress. That's what it's all about!

 

[rumpus]

I'm a big believer in rivnuts, and have almost never had a spinner. I'm going to agree with all the prep advice already given here:

• proper sized hole, a snug fit is preferable but not critical
• quality installation tools and rivnuts. I use all Astro brand, and getting a good, strong squeeze is important. With the manual tool and a 1/4" rivnut, it requires a full squeeze, then threading the mandrel in another turn or two, then another squeeze. I install a lot of rivnuts in each build, so I use the Astro air tool most of the time.

And here's my big pro tip for happy rivnuts: chase the threads when you're done. Take a tap and run it into the rivnut to clean the threads, you can even put a tap in your cordless drill and zip it in and out of a dozen rivnuts in no time. It's not uncommon for a rivnut to not center perfectly, especially when using the hand tool, and when you compress a rivnut you are pulling hard on the threads, so clean them up before you install the bolt. This one quick extra step has saved me from many a bound and cross-threaded bolt/rivnut.

 

[proeddie]

I believe it is worth noting that rivnuts are also specified by the thickness of the metal that they will hold in. A rivnut that is designed for 1/16" thick metal will spin in a thin sheet metal hole.

The thickness of the metal is defined as "grip range."

ps. truly a riveting discussion here...

 

[Dennis CampMaker]

One other tip that I've seen but haven't tried yet is to add a lock washer. See the photo.

 

[Dennis CampMaker]

Plusnut + Adhesive?

I'm about to install a bunch of plusnuts. I've read of issues of both plusnuts and rivnuts spinning after installation. So a couple of Q's: 1) How prevalent is this problem? 2) If it occurs with a plusnut, can the plusnut just be re-tightened? 3) To the point of this message: Does it make...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

 

[turnip4545]

can someone on this thread advise on which size plus-nuts or rivet-nuts worked for them. I'm looking to use one of the holes on the sides that are about 1/2 inch in diameter. My caliper shows about 0.48 inch diameter.

thank you

 

[diytech]

I suppose, but it kind of defeats the "low profile" aspect if that's a concern (and it often is).

If you look carefully at that photo (zoom in), you can still see the "wings" of the PlusNut have folded back slightly, and not in contact with the majority of the backside of the sheet metal. It's just inherent in the design, but makes almost no difference in the pliable materials for which the PlusNuts are ideal (wood, ABS, fiberglass, fiberboard, etc). However in sheet metal, it's just going to allow the fastener to spin more easily during final assembly.

I believe the notion that PlusNuts are superior to rivet nuts originated from people's impression that the "wings" would resist being pulled out more effectively. They really do that in pliable materials, but not necessarily in sheet metal. Consider that if the bolt fastener cannot be tightened effectively (i.e. spinning), then the fastener is not really doing it's job. And really, either type will fail a destructive "pull out" test. The rivet nut will curl the metal outward once the limit is reached, and the PlusNut will tear its way out once the wings start to cut the metal.

Large enough fastener for the job combined with proper installation is really the way to go.

One other tip that I've seen but haven't tried yet is to add a lock washer. See the photo.

 

[diytech]

At that diameter, you are right on the edge of accommodating either 5/16 or M8 sizes, but you may still have to drill slightly larger. Buy the exact correct drill bit size if you want it to be a simple installation. Also look for steel or stainless steel (i.e. not aluminum), and make sure they are specified for thin metal because the PM has thin sheet metal.

Or are you looking for a link to a specific item to purchase?

can someone on this thread advise on which size plus-nuts or rivet-nuts worked for them. I'm looking to use one of the holes on the sides that are about 1/2 inch in diameter. My caliper shows about 0.48 inch diameter.

thank you

 

[Van vs Wild]

can someone on this thread advise on which size plus-nuts or rivet-nuts worked for them. I'm looking to use one of the holes on the sides that are about 1/2 inch in diameter. My caliper shows about 0.48 inch diameter.

thank you

Folks generally use 5/16” plus nuts I’m those holes. I think I’d rather drill them to the correct size for knurled right nuts now though.

S31MG280 Steel PRE-BULBED Shank, Multi-Grip Rivet-NUT Gold ZINC Finish, 5/16-18 X .020-.280 Grip Range (Pack of 25) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010GQXPIQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_HD68S759J8SP1V980TCX

 

[Van vs Wild]

I just stumbled across these knurled plus nuts! Don’t know if they’d be any better though since it’s only on one side of the clamp.

 

[stargazer]

This whole "round fastener in a round hole" spinning problem gives me that feeling of "there's got to be a better way." This topic is discussed widely on all the forums, and (as with all van build topics) it's incredible how many differing opinions there are: rivnut vs. plus nut, which tool, star/lock washer or not, etc. Many posts are of the "I've never had a problem--just use the right tool/technique" sort, but I think the reality is that many of us are going to have a certain non-zero failure rate during installation. And while I agree that learning how to properly install these is important, I'm not convinced that even a properly-installed rivnut or plus nut that does not spin will always stay put and never spin. With the vibration and flexing of the van environment, I can't help but wonder how many remove/replace cycles you can get before these interference-fit fasteners will eventually lose just enough grip to allow them to spin when you try to remove that bolt one more time...

I did some searching to see if there are any other techniques or products people are using to solve this spinning problem, such as adhesives, tack welding, etc. and came across keyed plus nuts and this tool (Rivet Nut Tool | Rivnut® Installation Tool | Rivnut® Tool | Rivnut Hand Install Tool | Rivet Nut Installation Tools) used to create key slots in the hole. Does anyone have experience with keyed rivnuts or plus nuts?

 

[diytech]

I've encountered them at work several times. The idea is sound, and that's why there are hexagonal holes in the certain places on the van, including some under the front end for holding the belly pans in place (used on the Ducato and Boxer).

As long as you don't need larger fasteners (i.e. 8mm, 10mm, 5/16", 3/8", etc), the keyed should work fine if you can find them. However, if you botch the install or over-torque the fastener, you can still rip the sheet metal around the key. In fact, even the hex rivet nuts can mangle and spin in the hexagonal holes if those are not installed well with the proper tool with good contact on the back side around the hole.

Honestly, I've installed thousands of the rivet nuts in my workplace, and we've not had any problems when they are installed properly and not over torqued with the bolt or screw. Over-tightening will just mess things up regardless of whether fastening with well nuts, snap nuts, U-clips, welded nuts, rivet nuts, plastic inserts, or even nuts and washers.

The OP did the exact right thing, and ran some tests before diving in. Kudos! Many of the cross shaped versions are simply not ideal for use in sheet metal, in spite of the numerous endorsements on the Internet. If any "install from one side" insert doesn't clamp tightly to the back side of the sheet metal, then it's simply not right for the job. Adding glue, epoxy, washers, etc. just to get them to hold? Nah, thumbs down on that.

Does anyone have experience with keyed rivnuts or plus nuts?

 

[Roger Brown]

I'm a big believer in rivnuts, and have almost never had a spinner. I'm going to agree with all the prep advice already given here:

• proper sized hole, a snug fit is preferable but not critical
• quality installation tools and rivnuts. I use all Astro brand, and getting a good, strong squeeze is important. With the manual tool and a 1/4" rivnut, it requires a full squeeze, then threading the mandrel in another turn or two, then another squeeze. I install a lot of rivnuts in each build, so I use the Astro air tool most of the time.

And here's my big pro tip for happy rivnuts: chase the threads when you're done. Take a tap and run it into the rivnut to clean the threads, you can even put a tap in your cordless drill and zip it in and out of a dozen rivnuts in no time. It's not uncommon for a rivnut to not center perfectly, especially when using the hand tool, and when you compress a rivnut you are pulling hard on the threads, so clean them up before you install the bolt. This one quick extra step has saved me from many a bound and cross-threaded bolt/rivnut.

I used your tip and ran a tap in and out of every plus nut and there was a fair amount of shavings on the floor when I was done. 42 plus nuts for two wheel well covers. After securing the plywood with 4 plus nuts I ran the tap a second time. I am sure this is the reason things went so smooth. Thank you!!

 

[Van vs Wild]

So I got around to installing riv nuts this past week and here's some things I learned.

The M8 HEX rivnuts are solid. They set straight with the Astro tool, obviously don't have a spinning issue due to their hex shape in a factory hex hole, and no threading issues occurred.

The 1/4-20 rivnuts I used for the top corners, on the other hand, turned out to be a nightmare! And that's the area I was most concerned about since they need to hood the upper cabinets from flying forward into the back of my skull, in the event of a frontal crash 😅

The sheet metal in that area is even more thin than the body panel I tested the riv nuts on. It's so soft you can bend that area with your fingers. Just the weight of the Astro tool hanging from the riv nut was enough to throw it out of alignment.

I also had issues clamping the tool down evenly. Thought it was maybe a burr causing it, but nope, the sheetmetal just isn't very ridgid and the weight ofnthe tool itself was throwing things off. Or I'm just a weakling.

Before installing the framing lumber, I tried running an allen crew through one of the installed rivnuts and it promptly got wedged/stuck. Tried to get the screw out with with an impact driver and the riv nut spun.

Unfortunately I now know how weak both the sheetmetal and rivnut's pullout strength is.