[Pierre O]

One of our earliest and most resolute decisions was that we would NOT add diesel or propane, plus I absolutely did not want vents in the van’s sheet metal. Period. Also, if we had decided to relent on the propane two years after the initial build, there would have been major compromises somewhere to fit in a tank and heater. We understand the advantages of propane, but it is not our cup of tea. Glad it works for you.

Our previous experience was with gas Webasto, which worked perfectly as long as we ran it only on high and below 7,500 feet (with altitude adjustment). Four winters without maintenance until we got desperate one night at 8,500 feet.

💯. We also did not want propane. Of the 2 options for carrying it, I was not going to have a 20 lb tank inside. I understand they can be made safe, but I am afraid of propane. That's just me. I even treat 1 lb green tanks with considerable respect. The other option was an underbody tank. I would have been relatively comfortable with this from a safety standpoint. These are also typically 20 pound tanks if I remember well.
We camp in cold conditions in the winter. Last weekend over a 72 hour period we burned 2.6 gallons of gasoline for heat, or 300,000 BTU. Assuming 70% efficiency we got about 210,000 BTU as heat. Now assuming a propane furnance is 85% efficient we would have needed 248,000 BTU, or 11.5 pounds, of propane.
So basically this means that for us, for only a long weekend trip, already I would have had to get the tank (BBQ tank or underbody tank) filled prior to the next trip. With a gasoline heater I just pumped an extra 10 liters in when I filled up on the way back.
So to us, a gasoline heater was the compromise we were willing to live with. Again I'm not suggesting it is for everybody. For most people propane is probably the best compromise; but not for us.

 

[Pierre O]

Personally I would do this one:

I'd put a 90 degree elbow on the output side,cut open for a grille in the angled side and push the heater as close to the grille as possible so that you clear the elbow. That's assuming it clearsthe floor beams.

 

[Pierre O]

Very well then. There's a reason there arent hundreds of posts about how to keep propane furnaces operational. Propex doesnt have vents in the sheet metal, it mounts thru the floor. A propane locker is very simple, its just an airtight box that vents thru the floor, nothing to be afraid of and running tiny plastic hoses full of gasoline into the inside of the van is not safer. Liquid fuel heaters do occasionally go up in flames. I hate to hear that someone is using a gasoline heater because they perceive it to be "safe". Its a shame that they take up space in the van. I take out my propane locker in summer and use 1# green bottles for cooking in summer.

As far as I know none of the liquid fuel heaters are maintenance free, they will all soot up and require rebuild eventually.

Why would one run gasoline lines inside the van? The complete fuel line and the fuel pump are all outside under the floor in a normal installation.
And BTW RV furnaces are reliable but they do fail as any RV forum will show. And RVs do blow up from propane explosions occasionally as well. No non-trivial technology is perfect; it's all about what set of trade-offs works best for you.

 

[Pierre O]

Following this with interest.

I’m curious how long your exhaust pipe is and how many bends it has. I read through the install instructions of a Webasto or Espar (with should be very similar) and I limits the exhaust pipe and air intake pipe length to max 6’, with few bends.

I’m planning on using the Velit mostly on low here in California, so I’m concerned about coking.

Your best bet will be to open windows to make sure you run it at max for at least 15 minutes. Running short cycles at low is a recipe for carbon formation regardless of brand or altitude.

Also you should get a cheap CO meter to check that the combustion is not rich.

And personally I would skip the muffler - it will be much more apparent if you have combustion issues, you will see carbon in the tailpipe or chunks of carbon on the ground.

 

[Pierre O]

Yes, but where exactly do you go underneath the van close to the aux port of the fuel tank?

Drill a hole somewhere between the front seats or is there an opening to the outside nearby?

If you have not opened it it may not be obvious but the fuel auxiliary tap is technically outside the van, under the floor. There is a round cover under the removable part of the floor.

 

[Pierre O]

According to this website Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada only a few gas stations in all of Canada have no-ethanol gasoline. Not sure how reliable it is.

 

[Pierre O]

There are some pretty large companies that seem to have the same problem

Gary

For sure - traceability is one of the most complex aspects of electronics manufacturing, especially when the supply chain is global. It was not meant to be a criticism - this is something startups usually learn when they have to deal with their first recall or when a large customer imposes it.

 

[Pierre O]

...plus I understand that Velit does not state that the auxiliary tap will not work; only that it may hinder high-altitude start-up. I'm a stong advocate of the stepwise approach to install and I would probably test with the tap prior to throwing the standpipe in the mix, at least to validate the rest of the install.

 

[Pierre O]

Good luck! I hope it goes smoothly. I’m almost ready to buy one, but I’m waiting for a good video of the install.

For what it's worth all these heaters, independent of manufacturer, install the exact same way. Some tend to be Webasto clones whereas others are Espar clones (the generic Chinese units are mostly Espar-like but the Bison for instance is a close copy of a Webasto) but that does not impact mounting, it has more to do with internal layout and maintenance. Other than small dimensional differences (the 4 KW units being a bit larger than the 2 KW ones, and having larger heat ducting), the mounting plate, pump, fuel pickup, wiring, controller etc. are all connected and mounted in the same manner. Pick any video you like, picture the unit as being orange, and you'll be OK .

 

[Pierre O]

This is a low, low pressure/vacuum application, they don't need to be overtightened.

Eberspacher (and Webasto also if I recall) specify 1 to 2 Nm (9 to 18 in-lb). It's not a huge torque. It is important also that the clamp is not bent, otherwise it will not clamp evenly. Normally if you have the correct torque the "ears" should be close to touching one another but the clamp should not distort the rubber hose.

 

[Pierre O]

Something like this?
Getting my Velit today!

Nitro 4x4 1/4in Hose Clamp 10 Pack

Shop for Nitro 4x4 1/4in Hose Clamp 10 Pack with confidence at AutoZone.com. Parts are just part of what we do. Get yours online today and pick up in store.

www.autozone.com

Same type; as @83Grumman mentionned these are sometimes called "fuel injection clamps"; but maybe these are too small. Often 10 mm ones are used such as these: Webasto Fuel Line Clamp 10mm 5 pack 5012000MP5. Similar ones should be in your velit kit.

 

[Pierre O]

I have observed pockets of air in fuel line and assumed this was normal

"pockets" of air (meaning air gaps of few millimeter length or more) are definitely not normal, they usually mean air gets sucked in somewhere between the tank and the pump.

 

[Pierre O]

Muffler clamps and pump rubber clamp maybe?

 

[Pierre O]

How did you run the 12v wiring to the fuel pump? Do you just drill an extra hole in the turret and route it thru?

The velit mounting plate has a kerf next to the intake for the pump wiring:

(this is not my picture, this is from some youtube video: Velit 4000P Gasoline Heater Installation - Ford Transit Camper Van Conversion )


On the webasto and webasto-like heaters the wiring runs through a kerf in the intake side of the base casting so this is not needed. You need to replicate this kerf I guess, I have not seen it on any other heater.

 

[Pierre O]

Coincidentally it was a CO-OP & all 3 grades they have all stated on the pumps could have 10% Ethanol.

This was new to me 😳. As before I recall it was 10% / 5% / Zero ethanol.

Yup, my commercial chainsaw “Husky” IIRC I bought in 2016. There is a difference between allowances in an owners manual possibly mandated by Govt, & “Best Practices” verbally provided @ the repair shop.

My life experience seems similar to @RobPromaster ,,, I have no problem running it and in my Promaster, but not the in my motobikes or gen sets, or other small engines.

I’m going to trust the “repair shop mechanics”.

Sounds like it is no issue with these gasoline heaters 👍 ,,, I would not know.

Normally it is carburated engines, especially engines that are used infrequently, that are most problematic. A gasoline heater doesn't have a carburator or really any place that the fuel can accumulate and separate. If you don't use a fuel filter (I don't) all the fuel gets recycled in less than 1 minute. The fuel pickup is also away from the bottom of the tank.
Maybe it will clog the burner inlet or the fuel pump a bit quicker, we'll see. But certainly I'm not going to have a separate tank with non-ethanol gas for the heater, it would defeat the purpose of having a gasoline heater.
The only small engine I own is that in our snowblower and I have not noticed any issues with ethanol but it's not very old (17 years old) and lives a pampered life, spending the winter in our heated garage.

 

[Pierre O]

Safety is the most important item in my mind. I do not know the “safety records” & what is “safer”. I also believe “no Forum Member here” is the keeper of such data ,,, examples with low resolution “sure”, but properly analyzed statistics 🤷‍♂️.

If we consider the DIY Van Builder On This Forum & the Typical RV Owner into the safety equation, I assume the DIY generally knows their heater system better than the Typical RV Owner. I also assume as the DIYer can fix & repair & inspect their heating system, they would generally be “safer” than the RV average.

Sometimes analysis is counterintuitive ( Like Aviation Insurance & General Aviation Twin Engine Airplanes ).

If a DIYer “fears” a fuel source, I suppose they should stay away from that fuel source.

My option is the propane furnaces In am interested in are more reliable & have fewer problems typically than the gasoline or diesel units. I reason this, by looking at the RV Industry & pondering the common fuel & equipment.

Yes, my point was not about which is safer. All I said was there is risk involved with both. What the relative risk is I do not know.

 

[Pierre O]

That’s part of what is different about the VeLit. Webasto had to do that. Velit doesn’t. We can run it low overnight, turn it off in the morning, no worry about carbon buildup.

They describe the routine after turning it off “cooling down,” and that’s what it does. Seems like it’s just blowing the fan for a bit.

If it's like the other gasoline heaters (don't know about diesel), when you turn it off it starts by slowing down the pump and fan and turning on the glow plug. After a while it stops the pump, and combustion will stutter for a few seconds. Once it stops the glow plug will burn any residual gasoline, this is when you may get some white smoke. Then the glow plug and finally the fan will stop.

 

[Pierre O]

Had a flashback, what were the VW Bug gasoline heaters, anyone remember? They were mounted in the front under the hood.

Mostly Eberspacher heaters, primitive versions of today's models but with the same operating principle.

 

[Pierre O]

No- to fix the hoses to the van’s frame.

Our bison kit had some steel straps about 1" wide and 4" long that you can wrap around the hoses and bolt to the frame. If your kit did not come with any, in a pinch all-round would work. The exhaust pipe is quite stiff so I used multiple straps to hold it where I wanted.

 

[Pierre O]

...pus for what it's worth the fuel pump is a critical (and fairly expensive) component and I'm not keen on drilling holes into it if I don't have to, on the odd chance that the manufacturer would not cover it under warranty if it fails (by itself or as a result of my intervention). For us high altitude travel is not in the short term plans anyway; but if you want to do it right now it seems quite straightforward (certainly less nerve-wracking than drilling holes for windows ). I would get a real tool to remove the lockring.