[Van vs Wild]

What about a small mini split? The first one is a cold climate model (-22F) heat and ac. They both turn down to about 3000 BTU. Although it would probably never run that low in a metal box (van).

Claims 16 EER. 9000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner - Heat Pump - SENA/09HF

or cooling only, 12 EER. 9000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner - Heat Pump - SENL/09CD/110V.

What about a small mini split? The first one is a cold climate model (-22F) heat and ac. They both turn down to about 3000 BTU. Although it would probably never run that low in a metal box (van).

Claims 16 EER. 9000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner - Heat Pump - SENA/09HF

or cooling only, 12 EER. 9000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner - Heat Pump - SENL/09CD/110V.

Short of cutting a hole for a window ac unit, I think minisplit is the way to go. They’re just not very discreet. That vid I posted of the ACDC (brand name, not the electrical current) unit on the backdoor of a van is a mini split.

 

[MaggieMarty]

If you have a rear window, it can be removed and replaced with sheet metal or plywood. The ACDC minisplit can be installed on the roof, on the back door, or even underneath.

The problem with the EcoFlow (aside from the huge cost) for a van is it’s still a portable ac unit, and that’s a huge problem, not a little one.

Think of it this way, a portable ac unit with a single hose draws in air from your van and exhausts it outside. Not only is it sucking out hot air, but it’s taking some of the cold air with it. That’s very inefficient. The bigger problem is it creates a vacuum. Hot air is being sucked into every nook and cranny of your hot metal van (pressure release vents in each rear corner, unsealed screw holes, drain holes, weatherstripping around doors and windows, vent fans, etc). It’s taking the already-hot air of outside, and sucking it through the even-hotter, oven-of-a-van body, only to try and cool it again. Even a 12k BTU portable ac with dual hoses offers marginal help during the hottest part of a summer day.

It would literally be better to get out of your van, set up a tent in full sun, and run this EcoFlow unit inside there instead. This little 4k BTU unit is just a bigger version of a Zero Breeze, which is pretty useless considering how expensive it is. It can help lower the temps a little at night so you can get to sleep, but don’t expect it do much during the day.

I get all you’re saying, but the EcoFlow Wave is a dual hose unit. Just sayin’.

I also understand that there are many options for AC, whether is a window AC, mini splits or what have you. Nevertheless the EcoFlow seems like a decent option for some that have already build their van, want something easy, seasonal and removable and probably has a market for quite a few people since it can be run on either their (overpriced) battery pack or from your own battery system. Never mind the hefty price tag… Options!

 

[Van vs Wild]

I get all you’re saying, but the EcoFlow Wave is a dual hose unit. Just sayin’.

I also understand that there are many options for AC, whether is a window AC, mini splits or what have you. Nevertheless the EcoFlow seems like a decent option for some that have already build their van, want something easy, seasonal and removable and probably has a market for quite a few people since it can be run on either their (overpriced) battery pack or from your own battery system. Never mind the hefty price tag… Options!

Thanks for the correction. Dual hose is slightly better but it still can't keep up during the day even if the unit was twice as big. I just don't want people to spend that much money thinking they're going to be able to spend a summer day comfortably inside their van by running this thing. There's no magic solution to extreme heat in a van, and that's why rooftop ac units are rated around 15k BTU. If our vans weren't metal boxes with poor insulation, they'd only need less than a 1/4th of that.

I like having options as much as the next person, but the high cost of the EcoFlow makes its size and portability moot (corrected from "mute" by Wowbagger, thanks!). A regular 110V portable AC can be bought that has the same footprint. Several have them running in front of their passenger seat, venting out the window. They're taller units bit they also put out much more BTU's. You still have to upgrade to insulated hoses either way, so that takes up more space and leaves more bulk to deal with. You still have to spend more money on top of that for window vent adapters, or end up doing major modifications to your rig for the vents, which isn't really a great idea for a temporary product.

There's definitely a market for the EcoFlow, but IMHO I think it falls short for vanlife because it's just not going to provide the results one would normally expect for such a huge investment. The money is better spent on an awning or screened pop up canopy, because sitting outside under shade is easier. People with money will buy it like they did with the Zero Breeze, but they will end up disappointed and eventually modify their built rigs to accommodate a rooftop ac, a window ac, or a mini split.

For temporary, it's a lot easier to just crank the engine and run the dash ac, though that has its own problems. For us van people, I'd like to see someone introduce a mini U-shaped window ac unit that comes apart at the center. Then we'd be able to do temporary setups with a front door window, or use dedicated bunk style windows.

Similar to this:

Soleus Air Exclusive 6,000 BTU Energy Star First Ever Over the Sill Air Conditioner Putting it in a Class of its Own for Safety and Whisper Quiet, Along with Keeping Your Window View (Fits up to an 11" Wide Window Sill) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085P27VNF/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_GW0ZVP7Y27BMSZJR91ZT?psc=1

 

[Wowbagger]

I like having options as much as the next person, but the high cost of the EcoFlow makes its size and portability mute.

The word you are looking for is "moot", not "mute".

 

[Van vs Wild]

The word you are looking for is "moot", not "mute".

Thanks I'll let my phone's spell check know. 😁 It also likes to say bit instead of but and many other things.

 

[phil]

These types of small single/dual hose A/Cs are spot coolers and have limitations. It's for blowing cold air onto something or into an enclosure. How it performs depends on the temperature - humidity - dewpoint.

 

[travelvanvan]

For temporary, it's a lot easier to just crank the engine and run the dash ac, though that has its own problems. For us van people, I'd like to see someone introduce a mini U-shaped window ac unit that comes apart at the center. Then we'd be able to do temporary setups with a front door window, or use dedicated bunk style windows.

Similar to this:

Soleus Air Exclusive 6,000 BTU Energy Star First Ever Over the Sill Air Conditioner Putting it in a Class of its Own for Safety and Whisper Quiet, Along with Keeping Your Window View (Fits up to an 11" Wide Window Sill) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085P27VNF/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_GW0ZVP7Y27BMSZJR91ZT?psc=1

That's an interesting little unit. However, I couldn't find out the one critical piece of info in that vendor link: how much electricity it uses (critical for us van people).

Also, and unfortunately, neither it nor any other AC unit can be easily split. The refrigerant needs a continuous path between the compressor and the head unit. And the path needs to be perfect, with no leaks whatsoever, otherwise the "freon" (not really freon anymore I believe) will escape. And so a leaky (even one that is only a tiny bit leaky) quick-disconnect type of fitting likely won't work well.

I've often bandied about hacking a window AC unit. Cheap and fairly low power (comparatively that is). I've been away from this forum a bit but I recall someone was going to try to hack in something like this last year, our famous @phil I believe. I wonder if some data came out of that experiment.

 

[Bromaster5]

I have been waiting for this to be released to check it out. Launch price $1,000

• True AC, not evaporative cooler
• 4000 BTU
• Portable, dual hose
• On AC power apparently averaging 450W
• Optional battery pack ($800)
• Can be connected to multiple EcoFlow power stations
• Not sure if it can be wired to nonxproprietary DIY battery setup, such as 12V lithium
  
  Here the product page https://www.ecoflow.com/us/wave-por...hD8ARIsAHChzRLlNm7hDtPrtW_1uTQrW1F3n-DwYbQvK4GHZ11_ZfI5_k1lNJRpIrgaAun7EALw_wcB
  
  First YouTube review
  
  What do we think? View attachment 85818

At

I have been waiting for this to be released to check it out. Launch price $1,000

• True AC, not evaporative cooler
• 4000 BTU
• Portable, dual hose
• On AC power apparently averaging 450W
• Optional battery pack ($800)
• Can be connected to multiple EcoFlow power stations
• Not sure if it can be wired to nonxproprietary DIY battery setup, such as 12V lithium
  
  Here the product page https://www.ecoflow.com/us/wave-por...hD8ARIsAHChzRLlNm7hDtPrtW_1uTQrW1F3n-DwYbQvK4GHZ11_ZfI5_k1lNJRpIrgaAun7EALw_wcB
  
  First YouTube review
  
  What do we think? View attachment 85818

At 3:

I have been waiting for this to be released to check it out. Launch price $1,000

• True AC, not evaporative cooler
• 4000 BTU
• Portable, dual hose
• On AC power apparently averaging 450W
• Optional battery pack ($800)
• Can be connected to multiple EcoFlow power stations
• Not sure if it can be wired to nonxproprietary DIY battery setup, such as 12V lithium
  
  Here the product page https://www.ecoflow.com/us/wave-por...hD8ARIsAHChzRLlNm7hDtPrtW_1uTQrW1F3n-DwYbQvK4GHZ11_ZfI5_k1lNJRpIrgaAun7EALw_wcB
  
  First YouTube review
  
  What do we think? View attachment 85818

I have been waiting for this to be released to check it out. Launch price $1,000

• True AC, not evaporative cooler
• 4000 BTU
• Portable, dual hose
• On AC power apparently averaging 450W
• Optional battery pack ($800)
• Can be connected to multiple EcoFlow power stations
• Not sure if it can be wired to nonxproprietary DIY battery setup, such as 12V lithium
  
  Here the product page https://www.ecoflow.com/us/wave-por...hD8ARIsAHChzRLlNm7hDtPrtW_1uTQrW1F3n-DwYbQvK4GHZ11_ZfI5_k1lNJRpIrgaAun7EALw_wcB
  
  First YouTube review
  
  What do we think? View attachment 85818

[/QUOTE

Judgy-pants much? 😏

I ju

That's an interesting little unit. However, I couldn't find out the one critical piece of info in that vendor link: how much electricity it uses (critical for us van people).

Also, and unfortunately, neither it nor any other AC unit can be easily split. The refrigerant needs a continuous path between the compressor and the head unit. And the path needs to be perfect, with no leaks whatsoever, otherwise the "freon" (not really freon anymore I believe) will escape. And so a leaky (even one that is only a tiny bit leaky) quick-disconnect type of fitting likely won't work well.

I've often bandied about hacking a window AC unit. Cheap and fairly low power (comparatively that is). I've been away from this forum a bit but I recall someone was going to try to hack in something like this last year, our famous @phil I believe. I wonder if some data came out of that experiment.

Theres enough junk in our landfills.. When the waiter doesn't know what's in the recipe, run!

 

[Chance]

If numbers being shared are correct, it’s too much for 4,000 BTU/hr. Also funny that person on website did not associate 1,200 Watts with cooling capacity rather than electric power.

Testing an air conditioner correctly takes a lot of work. Just because it blows cold air doesn’t mean it is cooling at 4,000 BTU/hr. On any A/C it’s easy to measure current, but everyone seems to compare that against “rated” cooling capacity on faith.

 

[rjcarter3]

If you have a rear window, it can be removed and replaced with sheet metal or plywood. The ACDC minisplit can be installed on the roof, on the back door, or even underneath.

The problem with the EcoFlow (aside from the huge cost) for a van is it’s still a portable ac unit, and that’s a huge problem, not a little one.

Think of it this way, a portable ac unit with a single hose draws in air from your van and exhausts it outside. Not only is it sucking out hot air, but it’s taking some of the cold air with it. That’s very inefficient. The bigger problem is it creates a vacuum. Hot air is being sucked into every nook and cranny of your hot metal van (pressure release vents in each rear corner, unsealed screw holes, drain holes, weatherstripping around doors and windows, vent fans, etc). It’s taking the already-hot air of outside, and sucking it through the even-hotter, oven-of-a-van body, only to try and cool it again. Even a 12k BTU portable ac with dual hoses offers marginal help during the hottest part of a summer day.

It would literally be better to get out of your van, set up a tent in full sun, and run this EcoFlow unit inside there instead. This little 4k BTU unit is just a bigger version of a Zero Breeze, which is pretty useless considering how expensive it is. It can help lower the temps a little at night so you can get to sleep, but don’t expect it do much during the day.

I'm less concerned with efficiency than form factor and "does it work" factor. I really don't want a massive cooling unit on my roof or back door. The latter looks positively ugly IMHO, but I get it from a practicality standpoint.

For me, AC is a luxury that I would never even consider using without access to shore power, so things like compressor run times and efficiency losses over splits or window units mean nothing to me if a portable can get the job done just the same but less efficiently.

Also, we're talking about cooling steel cans with single paned glass everywhere, so the living space is already inherently inefficient. But, I think a lot of these inefficiencies are easily overcome by the sheer diminutive size of the target cooling area.

 

[Chance]

For me, AC is a luxury that I would never even consider using without access to shore power, so things like compressor run times and efficiency losses over splits or window units mean nothing to me if a portable can get the job done just the same but less efficiently.

We run ours on campground shore power over 90% of time (100% of time during first 10 years), but now occasionally power with small inverter generator 3 or 4 nights a year during football season. I agree that it makes very little difference most of the time whether it pulls 5 or 7 Amps since I don’t notice it at all when on shore power. However, air conditioning efficiency becomes a bit more important when powered by generator because it affects refueling. Mine will just run through the entire night with enough fuel left over to make coffee and breakfast in morning.

The main issue I personally see with any kind of battery-powered A/C (beyond high initial cost) is charging batteries back up quickly in order to extend run time. We normally drive long distances after boondocking overnight, but for campers who run A/C all day or boondock in one place for days at a time without driving, charging batteries becomes a major challenge (and added costs).

I estimate about 5 kWh of battery capacity could eliminate my generator completely, but that’s only because we would only cool at night occasionally followed by at least 6~8 hours of driving the next day. In this scenario, greater A/C efficiency reduces required battery bank capacity and also reduces required charging power.

 

[travelvanvan]

I too am interested in better efficiency, or to be specific, low power consumption. I am keeping an eye on developments and hope to see the advent of a low-power consumption, low-noise, and small form-factor unit...that is cheap. (Could this be pie-in-the-sky??!? 😀 )

This is to avoid the use of a generator or running the PM's engine for long periods to power an AC unit. If my battery/solar/engine-charging system is eventually upgraded to a sufficient level to meet the power requirements of said mythical AC unit, then I can deal with occasional bouts of unexpected extreme heat, and thus be a literal "happy camper".

For my part, I would try to make things easier on the unit by sectioning off parts of the van that don't need conditioned air (e.g. cab and bed area when I'm in my kitchen/office area).

Because I'm mobile and have no real requirements to be anywhere in particular (no longer working), I can drive to cooler spots. But it's the "unexpected extreme heat" that I'm looking to deal with. I might have planned to visit an area that I had researched to be fairly mild, weatherwise. But it seems nowadays, weather shifts can be extreme.

Witness my home town. Normally it's paradise here in June. If someone asked me "when should I come and visit?", I would have always suggested June. Guess what happened in June of last year?... [Record-setting heat; hundreds of people killed by it.]

 

[Van vs Wild]

That's an interesting little unit. However, I couldn't find out the one critical piece of info in that vendor link: how much electricity it uses (critical for us van people).

Also, and unfortunately, neither it nor any other AC unit can be easily split. The refrigerant needs a continuous path between the compressor and the head unit. And the path needs to be perfect, with no leaks whatsoever, otherwise the "freon" (not really fbreon anymore I believe) will escape. And so a leaky (even one that is only a tiny bit leaky) quick-disconnect type of fitting likely won't work well.

I've often bandied about hacking a window AC unit. Cheap and fairly low power (comparatively that is). I've been away from this forum a bit but I recall someone was going to try to hack in something like this last year, our famous @phil I believe. I wonder if some data came out of that experiment.

Thanks for the info about the continuous coolant link. To be more specific, my thought was more in terms of temporary mounting options that would be easy by fitting through a gap instead of an entire window-sized hole. Using the upside-down U-shaped window unit as an example, maybe instead of separating at the center, the indoors half of the unit could swing up to squeeze through a gap, instead of requiring the entire window opening for clearance. Going from a "U" to an "L", then swing down back to a "U". I think Phil needs to find a way to hack a window unit into this magical U/L/U ac I just described. 😂

 

[phil]

As best I can tell by looking at the parts available, making a unit that splits for season use is doable.
I've only look at r410 units.

Recovering the refrigerant, installing 4 refrigerant valves and 2 couplers, pull vacuum and refill. When you want to split close the valves and release the couplers, and remove the unit. You will lose a small amount of refrigerant every time you split it.

unknown cost because I haven't asked is the cost of recovery, vacuum and refill

 

[MaggieMarty]

Here is a guy on the Transit Forum who converted the Midea U-shape Window AC into a mini split. The Midea has a EER of 15.

Window A/C converted to Mini-Split Success

I know that this has been kicked around a bit on other threads, especially after the Midea-U window A/C unit came out, but I've just completed a successful "science project" to convert the Midea-U 8000BTU window unit into a "mini-split" by separating the indoor and outdoor sections. I have no...

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

 

[Chance]

I too am interested in better efficiency, or to be specific, low power consumption. I am keeping an eye on developments and hope to see the advent of a low-power consumption, low-noise, and small form-factor unit...that is cheap. (Could this be pie-in-the-sky??!? 😀 )

Yeah, pretty much a dream. 😀

Given a certain level of technology (commonly available to most designs and brands), making air conditioners more efficient normally requires them to be larger and probably more expensive as well. The biggest gains are made by having higher-capacity heat exchangers (evaporator and condenser) which reduce differential temperatures between refrigerant and air, allowing compressor to operate with less power — and that’s the biggest power user.

Larger heat exchangers can also provide the same amount of heat transfer with much less air pressure drop, which means fans and or blowers require less power also. Heat exchangers can be designed with lots of surface area in a small space, but that usually ends up costing more and require more fan or blower power. Larger size is cheaper and more practical overall.

Also very important, larger heat exchangers which have lower-power fans or blowers are typically much quieter not only because of lower-power fans or blowers, but also because air speeds are lower and thus make much less noise.

Mini split are efficient and quiet in large part due to their size. If we notice newest window air conditioners with highest EER, they are significantly larger and heavier than their counterparts of equal capacity with lower EER. There is no free lunch. Making an air conditioner (of same cooling capacity) tiny and light in order to make it more portable will likely preclude it being very efficient or quiet.

 

[Chance]

Using the upside-down U-shaped window unit as an example, maybe instead of separating at the center, the indoors half of the unit could swing up to squeeze through a gap, instead of requiring the entire window opening for clearance.

I’m not clear on what you are trying to accomplish. A smaller opening on side of van?

In residential use, these types of A/C units mostly have advantage of not blocking clear glass area in window so you can see out window better. They may also be a little easier to install in window, but only because window opens up and down. For van use, these advantages don’t seem as valid to me. And when not in use, storing inside van takes up more room.

 

[rjcarter3]

I had the EcoFlow in my cart and ready to take a gamble on it, but then I found someone locally selling a Zero Breeze for $700. I think he'll probably take $600, so maybe I'll just go with that instead. Once I get it in there, I'll figure out a plan for where to place it and vent it.

This thing will definitely fit under my back passenger seat, but the one thing that stinks is that these tubes are really enormous. Do you think it'll do any harm to the unit if I downsize those intake and exhaust hoses somewhat so that I'm not cutting two enormous holes in the van?

 

[Van vs Wild]

I'm less concerned with efficiency than form factor and "does it work" factor. I really don't want a massive cooling unit on my roof or back door. The latter looks positively ugly IMHO, but I get it from a practicality standpoint.

For me, AC is a luxury that I would never even consider using without access to shore power, so things like compressor run times and efficiency losses over splits or window units mean nothing to me if a portable can get the job done just the same but less efficiently.

Also, we're talking about cooling steel cans with single paned glass everywhere, so the living space is already inherently inefficient. But, I think a lot of these inefficiencies are easily overcome by the sheer diminutive size of the target cooling area.

When it comes to portable ac units, efficiency is a huge concern. Not so much because of power draw, but because there's a lot of heat waste being dumped inside of the space you're trying to cool. Even with a dual hose setup, it's like turning on a heater in addition to turning on the ac. The longer your hose run to reach outside air, the worse the problem becomes in both directions. Adding insulation to the hoses to counteract this problem adds a lot of bulk to your setup. Adding a window mount means more bulk. Insulating that window mount adds further bulk. In a metal box, it becomes a game of chasing efficiency while losing a lot more space than you had originally thought, when you purchased a "mini" portable unit.

"Does it work" depends on your standards and expectations. I'm in CA and its 95 degrees throughout July and Aug. An 8k BTU portable ac unit runs almost non-stop during the day to cool a small room inside of an insulated house, but it can maintain comfortable temps 20+ degrees lower than ambient due to the much higher insulation ratings of a house. In a van, it would struggle hard to maintain 10 degrees. It's main benefit would be to remove humidity and provide a little cooling in the evenings so you can get to sleep. At night "it works", but during a 95 degree my answer would be no. Your answer may be different.

Consider that a typical car dash ac is pushing 15k+ BTU, and a Promaster dash ac is probably double that at around 30k BTU. But these are run on powerful engine-driven compressors.

Nobody wants a massive ac unit anywhere, let alone inside their van, but I think that's what is required to answer the "does it work" question. A window ac unit or mini split are the more efficient solutions that can truly work on solar.

 

[Van vs Wild]

I’m not clear on what you are trying to accomplish. A smaller opening on side of van?

In residential use, these types of A/C units mostly have advantage of not blocking clear glass area in window so you can see out window better. They may also be a little easier to install in window, but only because window opens up and down. For van use, these advantages don’t seem as valid to me. And when not in use, storing inside van takes up more room.

Yes the portability to mount/dismount through a smaller opening in the van, while still maintaining the high cooling efficiency that's enough to adequately cool a van in real heat, while also drawing low enough power to run on a reasonable amount of solar. Looks like MaggieMarty posted a link to the concept. It's basically a "portable" mini split 😃

The guy in that thread mounted it under his van and it’s not so much “portable”, but a U/L/U could be. I’m willing to sacrifice a rectangular slot but not a window sized hole in the van.