Ram Promaster Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Might be a stupid question, but here goes...

I'm hoping to order some Seitz-style Chinese windows for the rear quarter panels and the slider of a 159" hightop, but I feel I'm in a chicken and egg situation. My vendor is asking for a wall thickness, but I haven't insulated yet.

I thought you usually installed the windows and then insulate, but maybe I've got that backwards. Or maybe you cut the holes for the windows, insulate and then install the windows, or insulate, trim, and then cut holes through all the layers and install the windows .. or... ? I'm so confused.

I was hoping to do the 1" polyiso greatstuff dance, maybe with some Thinsulate stuffed into the nooks and crannies too.

Options I have for thickness are: 24 mm - 34 mm (0.9448" - 1.338") or 34 mm - 44 mm (1.338" - 1.73228"). There's also a possibility of some extra cost custom expansion rings if I need more space.

I guess I have to estimate the final thickness and work through it. Any thoughts on how I might proceed? I'd feel more comfortable with a flow-chart. Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,838 Posts
Odd as the standard motorhome wall is 2” I believe. You could do the narrower window with 1” polyiso. You get about R-10 which is about right.
 

·
Premium Member
2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
Joined
·
2,126 Posts
Hi,
I insulated first (spray urethane), and then added the windows. I did spray more lightly in the areas I knew the windows were going to go. Seemed like this worked fine, but you could probably do the windows first and then insulation just as easily.

I used 2.25 inch clamp rings.
My windows are from CRL -- a different window design may change the depth of the clamp ring.
My clamp ring when tightened up still leaves a small gap (1/8 inch?) between the clamp ring and the window frame, which is not really noticeable without getting your eye right next to it -- that is, the clamp ring depth does not have to be exact.
Note the heavy wood spacer/frame around the window that gives the clamp ring something to bear on, and provides support for the paneling.



Some info on the clamp rings and wood spacers I put in on this page: http://www.buildagreenrv.com/our-conversion/promaster-diy-camper-van-conversion-adding-windows







If you look at the link below on wall paneling on, you can get an idea how the wall paneling is installed that matches the 2.25 inch clamp ring. The 2.25 inch clamp ring actually pulls the paneling in a little.
http://www.buildagreenrv.com/our-conversion/our-conversion-paneling/


Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank Gary, I got the source for the windows off your site. I suppose I might have looked over that part of your install a bit more closely, but figured I was going polyiso instead.

I'm learning quickly that the Seitz style windows have various overhead that you have to account for. They are not like CRL or Motion windows where you can get close to factory sized windows. But they have other benefits so it balances out.

The owner and his wife have been helpful. I hope I can give them my business.

A related probably stupid question... I went to HD and Lowes to see if I could get 1" polyiso and they only had 3/4 and 1/2". I already had some 3/4" at home-- I've only used it for art projects (go figure). Would the simplest thing to do to get 1" be doubling up on 1/2"? If so, should I glue the two panels together with Great Stuff or duct tape or something?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,679 Posts
Try a "real" lumberyard next. I wouldn't hesitate to double them up and I wouldn't put anything between them either. Why bother? They aren't going to move or squeak, in spite of what some people believe!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Try a "real" lumberyard next.
LOL, I tried both websites and while they list 1" they don't seem to stock it anywhere (and I'm looking at markets of 1+ million) and they won't ship it to store or anywhere.

And of course "real" lumberyards don't have websites. They're for sissies.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,838 Posts
Real lumber Yards are for Pro Builders and we use the phone- we are not shopping around for a couple of cents on some laptop or pad. While I was building I couldn't stand in line with a cart waiting for 2X6’s or plywood sheathing for the crew. We called our suppliers, talked only to a salesperson we trusted and got the materials we needed PRONTO! Their prices were often a few percent more but the service saved us and the customer money. Lumberyards have been marginalized down from everyones' place for lumber to the pros source. Those that didn’t are gone.
I recall getting a lift of 2 by's delivered from H-D on a job they were near. Promised by noon, arrived at 4:20! When we cut the bands on that lift the lumber literally jumped! They had banded every crooked and bent 2X6 in the store I guess! Since it was the end of our day and my guys had sat on their hands anyway I call H-D and PAID to have them pick the junk up. My Lumberyard had the lift on our site at 8 the next morning. 224 nice straight 2X6X10’s! Fool me once...........
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,679 Posts
HD is the worst of the worst! I always check with Lowe's first then HD if I need something right away but RD is correct - big box lumber yards suck when it comes to service, depth of stock, knowledge and quality. Your local full service lumberyard is always the best place to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
HD is the worst of the worst! I always check with Lowe's first then HD if I need something right away
Agreed.

I'm in a relatively small market between two mid-sized cities between two large cities. It was a bid deal when HD came to town. We used to have a Scotty's but it closed the day HD arrived. Then Lowes went in across the street from HD, so it's first stop Lowes, then HD and sometimes to change it up I go to Ace Hardware which I have no beef with. They don't pretend to be anything they are not and generally know what they sell.

I'll ask a builder friend where he goes. I never had much call until now. Maybe he'll teach me the secret hand-shake.
 

·
Premium Member
2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
Joined
·
2,126 Posts
Hi Josh,

HD has 1 inch polyiso listed on their website, so they should be able to order it in for you. I don't think they will charge you anything extra for ordering it. Our HD stocks the 1 inch, so I guess it varies place to place.

My criteria for choosing a local hardware store is that HD allows (and likes) dogs and Lowes does not :)
We also have a couple of "real" lumber yards that I like, but tends to take longer.

It would be nice to get a report on your Seitz windows -- they look like a good choice.

Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
My criteria for choosing a local hardware store is that HD allows (and likes) dogs and Lowes does not :)
As I recall neither likes dogs here :( But Lowes was the first to exclude dogs. Have a picture somewhere with Ziggy and Andre (RIP) in a Lowes "NASCAR" shopping cart. I'll upload it to the thread, if I can find it.

I'll let you know on the Seitz-ish units. Getting as much surface area as I'd like with the standard sizes is tricky. If I go with custom sizes I have to wait until next year due to customs and other delays. I may consider something wacky like pairing two windows side-by-side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Went to 84 Lumber yesterday. No joy on the 1" polyiso, manager said that the most people use is 3/4" here-- doesn't get that cold I guess.

He gave me his card, and said he could special order but I might have to buy a pallet of 48 or so. I didn't have the heart to tell him what it was for.

Stopped by Lowes on the way back to pick up a garage opener for the PM. Dogs were in the house :) They must of relaxed their policy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think I cracked the code. It's a regional thing, probably based on climate. I kept trying more northern cities on the Lowes and HD sites until I found stock. Neither one will deliver unless there's regional stock.

Closest I could find was Charlotte, NC. As they say in Animal House-- "Road Trip!"

I could stop off on the way back from my parent's condo in Virginia. But we all know how that ended up. Walter could end up as the Deathmobile, before I know it. :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Back to the windows, I'll figure out the polyiso later.

I made some mockups of the in-stock windows out of underlayment and stuck them to the PM with magnets.

Here's what I get:







I didn't bother with radiusing the corners, so you have to use your imagination. I had to double-up on the ones on passenger rear quarter panel, because the next size wider window was too tall for the slider channel.

It doesn't look like I have room on the inside of the slider for the blinds attachment, so I'll either have to install without the blinds or go with Motion or CRL there.

The driver's rear quarter is a wider but taller window that wouldn't fit on the passenger side. It will probably be covered up with the Murphy bed in transit. I suppose I could do the same double window treatment as on the passenger side, but it's more expense and would be covered up part of the time.

I'm not planning a drivers front quarter panel, the shower and the refrigerator are up there and would likely block most windows.

Thoughts? They aren't the easiest things to fit in because of the blinds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think I'm breaking up with these windows. They ask for more space, so I give them space and all they want is more.

I really wanted to make it work, but they just didn't meet my needs. ;)

Seriously, I think these windows are for people who want a lot of ventilation but not much as much window area. It's me, not them. I just wanted more than they could give.

Although I like the idea of an awning window, I think I'm going with the Motion windows. I'd heard someone complaining that their shipping costs from Vancouver were high, and that had scared me off. I got a quote, and it's really not that bad. Their lead-time is pretty long, but by that time it will be cooler here, and I'll have more time to better think things through, build some prototypes and source things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
I think I'm breaking up with these windows. They ask for more space, so I give them space and all they want is more.

I really wanted to make it work, but they just didn't meet my needs. ;)
I'm guessing you were looking at the ternoverland windows? I'm looking at them, and the interior blinds to add 75 mm (3") vertical, but it looks like the 450mm height will fit. It's good to see that they have better pricing and more options from their supplier now too.

I think I'll order one of the 450x1100 windows for the drivers side C panel, and figure out the D panels later. My bed is high enough that a full height window back there may not work anyway.

Did you finally decide on Motion? Their windows don't fully fill the factory spaces either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
808 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Did you finally decide on Motion? Their windows don't fully fill the factory spaces either.
Yeah, in the process of installing them now. The rear D panel windows are plenty big that's for sure. I'm installing them almost solo on a 159, and that's proved quite a challenge. If I wanted to completely fill the spaces, I would have bought CRL.

Good luck with the Tern Overlands. The owner's a nice guy, tried to encourage him to join the forum ala Hein but so far I don't think he's paid a visit.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top