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Discussion Starter #1
I know that I am probably going to open a can of worms here. But, I would like to know what other PM drivers are using for motor oil.
I'm of the "old school", and I'm having a real hard time accepting what Ram says I should use for motor oil. The thought of using 5-20 conventional oil in anything gives me the creeps, let alone leaving it in the motor for 10,000 miles. I'm a synthetic oil fan and used it in my old Sprinter as well as everything else I own. The Sprinter also had a 10K oil drain, but I never let it go that far. I would usually change it somewhere between 7 to 8K miles. I realize that I can get the 5-20 in synthetic, but again, I'm having a tough time with the 5-20 thing. To me 5-20 may work in a car, but a truck, carrying a load and or pulling a trailer should have something else for oil, like at least 10-30.
Depending who and what you believe and or read, the reason for 5-20 is so the auto builder can improve their CAFE standard. The 5-20 will work for the duration of the factory warranty. After that your own it, along with any premature engine wear (if any) caused by using such a light oil.
I know oils have come a long way, I'm just wondering what every else thinks.
 

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I think synthetic oil is more temperature stable, regarding viscosity. I feel braver following manufacturer recommendation when using synthetic.

Don't forget about the Toyota engine oh ****, regarding plugged oil passages. Modern engines use smaller oil passageways to improve emissions. You don't want to risk poor oil flow through those tiny passages with thick oil.
 

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I wouldn't raise the lower number at all. Increasing cold viscosity might reduce oil flow at startup too much. Don't forget there are lots of European cars requiring 0W-40. There are also credible test reports on the web with people testing higher viscosity in modern performance engines for extended periods and they always show no benefit and often higher oil consumption.
I would not raise the upper number unless it was full synthetic. I suspect that they've spec'd a 20 top number to minimize the amount of paraffin in conventional oil. Synthetic will basically eliminate any traces of large molecules which cause sludge and deposits. I've been running Mobil 1 since it first came out and I've never seen any buildup inside my engines. Always spotless if I open one up.
If I buy a PM, I'd be tempted to run 5W-30, partly because it's more available and it will work in other cars I own. But that is not over concerns of oil breakdown. If Dodge is OK with 5W-20 conventional then 5W-20 full synthetic should be all you'd ever need in severe duty.
 

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The owners manual states it's ok to run 5w30 if you can't find 5w20. On viscosity, I can tell you from racing, lighter is faster.
 

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Got first oil change today. Change oil light came on at 7200 miles. I used mobil 1 full synthetic 5w20 and mopar oil filter. Anybody using other filters.
 

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Advance Auto Parts often runs sales on Mobil 1 as a package deal with a Mobil 1 filter. Makes the filter less than OEM brands (which are not that cheap anymore).
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Forget the oil pan, look whats in the filter.

Like I said, I'm old school. I just changed my oil for the first time at 1300 miles. I was shooting for a 1000, but by the time I got the right filter I hit 1300. I am one who believes you should never run a new motor on what I would call its break-in oil for much longer then this. If it was a rebuilt motor I would have changed it at 500 miles and again at 1000. I believe that nothing cleans out a crankcase, new or old, of all its machining residue like hot oil flying around. Before you tell me that this is 2014, and I'm paranoid, take a look at the attached pictures of my cut open oil filter. All that bright shinny stuff you see are metal chips, and there are a lot of them. The camera on my phone doesn't due it justice. On the plus side it shows that the filter is working good, at least when it comes to the big chunks. But its the finer stuff that I worry about and that is why I dumped the oil so soon.
 

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You can see the photo by clicking the paper clip on the main forum where it shows this thread.

Amazing the number of metal chips on the pleats
 

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Amazing the number of metal chips on the pleats
I wonder how much of the metal came from the first start-up of the motor rather than break-in? How clean is assembly, and initial machining of parts? Tolerances are so tight in design and manufacturing these days that there shouldn't be that much actual break-in and wear over 1000 miles.
 

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Make sure you buy the correct oil filters. There is an updated part for the new pentastar, most parts places don't seem to know that yet. The old cartridge will cause engine damage. Just FYI.
 

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The Wix WL10010 is the new correct filter for the Promaster
 

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A half-hearted attempt to replace a lost post...:|

I know what it's like to be an oil nut! Some years back I joined a forum that discussed nothing but engine oil, with virgin and used oil analysis data and the like. Members like myself were doing cold flow tests by putting different grade oils in clear bottles in the freezer! There's even a few people that work in the lubrication industry that shared some of their general knowledge - and even a doctor that's been using 20wt oil in his 60wt spec'ed Ferrari and has used oil analysis reports to prove it's suitable for his application and driving style/cycle. There was much divide as far as being a fan of thick or thin oil, but as the data began to stack-up, each of use could have someone else's wear or lack there of, to better help us decide what makes us more comfortable using.

One thing I've learned was that decades ago the viscosity index improvers (VII) which are used to make an oil thin out less than the lighter original base stock would otherwise and thus enable it to serve as a multi-grade/weight, would shear and breakdown in use. An oil whose hot grade rating of 30 or 40 could shear down to be a 20wt before oxidation would lead to thickening of the oil overall. So with that, driving around with a 20wt oil in the sump was nothing new at the time. With further analysis, finished products had been blended with further refined base oils and increasingly shear stable VII's that had a better overall balance of shear thinning vs oxidative thickening over the recommended oil change and service duty, and were considered to have stay-in-grade performance.

As American Petroleum Institute (API) ratings changed to better designate capable oils for the latest trends in engine design and emission requirements, synthetics and ester technologies have become an increasing standard in at least some percentage of a finished lubricant. These base oils have higher natural VI's and purity, better oxidative stability and even inherent cleaning ability, all meaning that todays latest lubricant products are less dependent upon additives than previously available, and even more capable then ever before. For what it's worth, I also learned that up to 15% of a finished lubricant's volume could be comprised of additives, such as VII's, antioxidants, sacrificial anti-wear additives, detergents, dispersants, and more. And to add to the anti-wear additives, it's true that there can be too much of a good thing, for increased wear could occur through the reactive nature of these compounds with the surfaces they are otherwise meant to protect.

The synergy inherent within a finished lubricant and its place in the intended operating environment is really something if you think about it - what a balancing act! It's definitely not like back in the days of using animal fats to lube the axles of the horse drawn cart!
 
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