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I agree that three grand for a 3500 is difficult to justify unless you are loaded very heavy on a regular basis. My 159" 2500 does the job I expect of it very nicely. I don't think it is as cut and dried by the numbers as some of the others do though. The GVWRs may only differ by 450 pounds between weight designations, but there's a little more to it than what's seen in the numbers. In my case going strictly by the numbers, I won't very often if ever need the 2500 over the 1500. That's not to say however that my 2500 won't do a better job at just about everything I do than the 1500 would. Even when not running at or near max GVWR, stronger springs feel more firm and add to stability under even a moderate load. Most of all, i'm not on some ego trip that has driven me to buy more truck than I need. Nor am I some chump with too much money to throw around. For my use I believe I picked the best balance between load carrying ability and cost. Hopefully all of you feel the same about your PMs whatever their weight designation:).
 

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That $3725 is for an extra 14" of cargo space and a sway bar. that is the ONLY difference between the 2500 and the 3500ext.
If you really need it (and we really did) the extra 14" of length is worth the $3725 by itself. The stabilizer bar could be considered just a bonus if it weren't for my next point...


Ok, so lets assume you can live withouth the extended and make a comparision between a 2500 and 3500:

400 lbs difference is barely applicable. If you were to overload ANY vehicle by 400 you'd be hard pressed to notice it. Do you think the frame will crack? Brakes will stop working? Tires will pop? Springs will shoot through the floor? Nothing will happen, and nothing will be so compromised you cant drive it. 4000lbs maybe, but 400? Fuggetaboutit.

Sway bar: if the 2500 owners were reporting they were toppling over on turns then maybe it matters. If you were oval tracking your pm then maybe it matters. But under what other circumstances does a thicker sway bar make any difference? Or ANY sway bar. For decades i drove Valiants and Dusters without sway bars. At no time did I fly out the window due to body roll. My point is that, even if there is a difference between the 2500 and 3500 its too small to matter.

In short, next pm I buy will be a 2500 non-extended, and ill save $3000 or so.
It is not a matter of *if* the vehicle can take the extra weight, but how the handling of the vehicle is affected by the weight. Heavier springs and a stabilizer bar are always going to handle heavier payloads more adequately than a vehicle without; even if that payload is just an extra 450lbs.

If you exceed the GVWR and are involved in an accident where someone is seriously injured or killed, even if you aren't directly at fault, the potential lawsuit you personally open yourself up to is horrendous. People have lost everything that way; your insurer will not defend you nor will it provide compensation in this type of lawsuit.

We picked the 3500 Ext because we wanted to fit our ladders inside of it and we sometimes approach that payload rating. We weren't about to risk exposing ourselves to a major liability over a few thousand dollars (and we aren't leaving our ladders out in the snow.)

And for what it's worth: I believe the springs are the same on the 2500 and 3500 - the only thing listed as added to the ProMaster suspension with the 3500 models is the stabilizer bar.
 

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It is written.....

Ladies and gentlemen, here are some real numbers straight from the Mopar catalogs. Some will like it some will not. I feel torn that my competitive side won't let it go on a friendly forum, but at the same time it is important to share the best information with each other possible. I went to the parts department at my dealer today and there are 5 part numbers for rear springs for my vehicle. I went home and started plugging the numbers into searches and this is my results.

Mopar part numbers listed for rear leaf spring Promaster 2500

68157769AA fits ZAR vehicle code
68241285AB fits ZUR vehicle code
68157770AA fits ZPR, ZBR vehicle codes
68195839AC fits ZTR, ZER,ZFR vehicle codes
68188872AB fits ZDR vehicle code

68157782AD is the shock for the 159"/2500

Mopar part numbers listed for rear leaf spring Promaster 3500:
68157769AA fits ZAR vehicle code (same)
68241285AB fits ZUR vehicle code (same)
68157770AA fits ZPR, ZBR vehicle codes (same)
68195839AC fits ZTR, ZER,ZFR vehicle codes (same)
68188872AB fits ZDR vehicle code (same)

68157782AD is the shock for the 159"/3500 (same)

Above details from:
http://www.buymoparpartsnow.com/aut...gine/rear-suspension-cat/rear-suspension-scat

Using leaf spring # 68188872AB in a Google search gives one numerous references to 1500/2500/3500 such as this compatibility list for this specific spring:

Ram ProMaster 1500 3.0L DIESEL Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 1500 3.0L DIESEL M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 1500 3.6L FLEX V6 Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 1500 3.6L FLEX V6 M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.0L DIESEL Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.0L DIESEL M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.6L FLEX V6 Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.6L FLEX V6 M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.0L DIESEL Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.0L DIESEL M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.6L FLEX V6 Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.6L FLEX V6 M/T Base

This is taken from http://www.moparone.com/p/Ram__ProMaster-2500/Leaf-Spring/51881885/68188872AB.html


Use any part number I listed in your own Google search and you will see more of the same.

If you have an extended van then you can carry longer things and more things. This is its own reward and really not part of my thought process as there is only one undisputed heavyweight champ in that class. Not any debate at all about that.

If you have a 3500 you can feel good that you bought the biggest baddest van in the whole USA or psssd off that the other vans have the exact same springs, shocks, and 99.9% of all other parts. That is your choice. You can also legally carry more if you face a weigh in situation.


If you bought a 1500/2500 then you can feel good about your payload and your wallet.

If you are a plumber then you have other issues. Just kidding, I never met a plumber I did not like. Keep up the wry humor. Some of us get it.
 

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If you have a 3500 you can feel good that you bought the biggest baddest van in the whole USA or psssd off that the other vans have the exact same springs, shocks, and 99.9% of all other parts. That is your choice. You can also legally carry more if you face a weigh in situation.


If you bought a 1500/2500 then you can feel good about your payload and your wallet.
I just can't go with you on that one. I knew exactly what I was getting by going to the 3500: a stabilizer bar and less liability in an accident by staying under the GVWR at all times. I already knew the gearing and springs were the same. We carry heavy loads and want the best handling possible from this van under those conditions. With that said, this value goes equally hand-in-hand for us with the value of the slight bump up to the Extended version.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why they even make a 3500 in a non-extended body. I mean, there is only an $800 difference and you get an extra 14" of length! Why would anyone NOT want more capacity? I bet they don't sell nearly as many non-extended versions of the 3500.

Anyways, if the above conditions were met, we wouldn't care if they called it a 1500 - even at the higher price. I mean, it's a eurovan; no one is buying these to look macho. We're buying based on specs.
 

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Mine 68188872AB 2014 PM 2500 159" Non Ext.
They are sitting in my garage floor.
 

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Since I have put on fiamma awning ,solar panel and cabinets up high. I could use a rear sway bar.
Having weight down low it would not be bad at all.
 

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We're learning alot here, thats for sure. My own feeling is that the extra 14" would be easier for FCA to market if it was 24" or even 36". I realize its not that simple, but I would have paid it. My carrier classifies me more by length than weight. Had i known that ahead of time, i would have skipped the extended. Or i would have bought the cutaway and a box.

On the swaybars, realize that all pms have them on the front, and the front does most of the work. Perspnally, i'm not a fan of swaybars because they tranfer shock (potholes) to both wheels, and thus result in a drastically harsher ride. Given a choice, id have better shocks and just go slower on turns. These aint sports cars.

On the rear, the swaybar does help in crosswinds, but again it makes for a harsher ride. Not sure which is more important in a motor home application.

The liability factor of overloading is something i hadnt considered. Seems like adecent lawyer could hide 450 lbs somewhere. Crash debris, severed heads, deer carcasses, etc. But since we know the springs are identical it shouldnt be an issue.

This rating thing is by no means new with the pm. Between cargo and tow ratings, im sure theres lots of marketing bs on all sorts of rigs.
 

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Thanks DavidMFear,
You are my hero for all that work. Attaboy. Wry humor is so hard to write and so easy to misconstrue. No facts are going to wrap this up I fear (no pun meant). I think I now understand: the vans are the same except some are taller and longer than the others and one has a sway bar. Prices vary. Machismo is a european word and all drivers of EuroVans have it. I like plumbers too.
RD
 

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Ladies and gentlemen, here are some real numbers straight from the Mopar catalogs. Some will like it some will not. I feel torn that my competitive side won't let it go on a friendly forum, but at the same time it is important to share the best information with each other possible. I went to the parts department at my dealer today and there are 5 part numbers for rear springs for my vehicle. I went home and started plugging the numbers into searches and this is my results.

Mopar part numbers listed for rear leaf spring Promaster 2500

68157769AA fits ZAR vehicle code
68241285AB fits ZUR vehicle code
68157770AA fits ZPR, ZBR vehicle codes
68195839AC fits ZTR, ZER,ZFR vehicle codes
68188872AB fits ZDR vehicle code

68157782AD is the shock for the 159"/2500

Mopar part numbers listed for rear leaf spring Promaster 3500:
68157769AA fits ZAR vehicle code (same)
68241285AB fits ZUR vehicle code (same)
68157770AA fits ZPR, ZBR vehicle codes (same)
68195839AC fits ZTR, ZER,ZFR vehicle codes (same)
68188872AB fits ZDR vehicle code (same)

68157782AD is the shock for the 159"/3500 (same)

Above details from:
http://www.buymoparpartsnow.com/aut...gine/rear-suspension-cat/rear-suspension-scat

Using leaf spring # 68188872AB in a Google search gives one numerous references to 1500/2500/3500 such as this compatibility list for this specific spring:

Ram ProMaster 1500 3.0L DIESEL Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 1500 3.0L DIESEL M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 1500 3.6L FLEX V6 Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 1500 3.6L FLEX V6 M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.0L DIESEL Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.0L DIESEL M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.6L FLEX V6 Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 2500 3.6L FLEX V6 M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.0L DIESEL Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.0L DIESEL M/T Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.6L FLEX V6 Automatic Base 2014, 2014
Ram ProMaster 3500 3.6L FLEX V6 M/T Base

This is taken from http://www.moparone.com/p/Ram__ProMaster-2500/Leaf-Spring/51881885/68188872AB.html


Use any part number I listed in your own Google search and you will see more of the same.

If you have an extended van then you can carry longer things and more things. This is its own reward and really not part of my thought process as there is only one undisputed heavyweight champ in that class. Not any debate at all about that.

If you have a 3500 you can feel good that you bought the biggest baddest van in the whole USA or psssd off that the other vans have the exact same springs, shocks, and 99.9% of all other parts. That is your choice. You can also legally carry more if you face a weigh in situation.


If you bought a 1500/2500 then you can feel good about your payload and your wallet.

If you are a plumber then you have other issues. Just kidding, I never met a plumber I did not like. Keep up the wry humor. Some of us get it.
So am I reading this right, are there 5 different possibilities as to which leaf springs you may have based on what code refers to your vehicle? How do you tell what three letter code yours is? I don't see those codes in the VIN.
 

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So am I reading this right, are there 5 different possibilities as to which leaf springs you may have based on what code refers to your vehicle? How do you tell what three letter code yours is? I don't see those codes in the VIN.
+1
I don't think this clears up anything. If they all have the same springs why are there 5 different ones? I looked on the door stickers & don't see that code there either.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Respectfully to you as well, they do indeed. They might not vary in capacity enough to suit you, but they are different. Look at the link and scroll down to the chart that shows payload.http://www.allpar.com/trucks/ram/ProMaster.html These vans are so so far ahead of my 1/2 ton Chevy that I am moving out of it is like night and day.
-t

Sure. Wasn't saying they're identically the same, just 'same difference' as they say. Motor is exactly the same. I think in the 2014 when this question was first posed, they were almost identical else wise, too.

For 2015, looks they added 'med' and 'heavy' suspension which I assume gets you the few extra pounds carrying capacity that it now claims for the 25/2500s - think that was also identical in the 2014s, with maybe a few pounds less for the 2500 due to more vehicle weight.

Never been a truck guy (two Honda civic hatchbacks cradle to grave previously), but I guess I'd always assumed that the 25/3500s of the truck world meant bigger differences and stronger engines.

Day 5 of 120 till my factory order arrives, but who's counting.. Man,, soon as I ordered, what remained of my willingness to endure driving my crappy loud uncomfortable Wrangler just disappeared.. I loath every mile in it now.

:)PP
 

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The manufacture states there are 5 different suspension levels, based on model and gross vehicle weight. One poster on here says he checked with the parts department and the springs are different part numbers for the different vans. I don't know what more you want.
-t
I completely agree that the springs and shocks are different on a 3500 Extended versus a 2500, and the 3500 has the sway bar. The part I can't understand is that if these springs and shocks and sway bar can be bought over the counter at the parts department for about $1,000, give or take a hundred dollars depending on which one you get, why does it cost more than twice that to upgrade from the approximately $1000 worth of 2500 shocks and springs to the approximately $1000 worth of 3500 shocks and springs. That's the part I don't get. What I have been trying to say is that I was hoping there were some other differences between the models that we don't know... more spot welds per foot on the assembly line, thicker steel stampings for the floor, etc. etc. but given that there is only 14 pounds difference between a 2500 HR 159WB and a 3500 HR 159WB, I'm guessing that 14 pounds is from the sway bar and fittings.

For a couple of thousand dollars, I would have hoped for more than a slightly stiffer spring rate.
 

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I completely agree that the springs and shocks are different on a 3500 Extended versus a 2500, and the 3500 has the sway bar. The part I can't understand is that if these springs and shocks and sway bar can be bought over the counter at the parts department for about $1,000, give or take a hundred dollars depending on which one you get, why does it cost more than twice that to upgrade from the approximately $1000 worth of 2500 shocks and springs to the approximately $1000 worth of 3500 shocks and springs. That's the part I don't get. What I have been trying to say is that I was hoping there were some other differences between the models that we don't know... more spot welds per foot on the assembly line, thicker steel stampings for the floor, etc. etc. but given that there is only 14 pounds difference between a 2500 HR 159WB and a 3500 HR 159WB, I'm guessing that 14 pounds is from the sway bar and fittings.

For a couple of thousand dollars, I would have hoped for more than a slightly stiffer spring rate.
As has been stated here before, the price difference is likely related to things like higher liability costs and government fees charged to allow production of a higher GVWR vehicle. I don't know the exact structure of these fees, but was told by the commercial sales manager that the fees are real. If different springs and the addition of a sway bar were the only things involved, the up-charge would be much smaller. If you want something screwed up or made more expensive unnecessarily, it's easy to do. Just involve the federal government.
 

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Or maybe it's just a bit of extra profit on that model for FCA? It's always easier to blame the government and mostly no one cares. I'll hold my judgement until we know more. Seems like we have gone way out on a limb guessing it was lots of added parts... No not that. Now its the government at fault? Who do we blame next?
 

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Barking up the wrong tree or maybe just barking

All Promaster vans are class 2 sub class 2b(8,500lb-10,000lb) the same as 2500 pickup trucks the class is based on the GVWR of the truck not what it looks like or what labels are on it. Pickup trucks over 2500 are class 3. All Promaster fees and taxes are paid the same as a pickup truck at time of registration and your state may have different rules but the feds classify all Promaster vans as class 2 the same as a 2500 pickup. Being made in Mexico has no bearing on fees and taxes in the US, Mexico is a NAFTA country. The feds step in at class 8 trucks and the IRS has tax rules for this tax. If you know of a FED tax or fee On the Promaster please post the tax code I would like to know about it.
 

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3500 stabilizer bar(s)

A curiosity: As we know, the 3500 is the only model that comes with a rear stabilizer bar. In 2017 (maybe other years too), there was also an option for a "premium" (heavy duty) stabilizer bar, which I suckered myself into. Recently, I was underneath hanging the grey tank and noticed the part number sticker was still legible on the stabilizer bar: 68168052AB. Out of curiosity, I Googled it and found this:
https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/par...ear-suspension-stabilizer-bar-rear,i2348290,1
The description quotes both [SHC] and [SHD], which are the factory order codes for standard and heavy duty bars. It sure sounds like paying premium price gets you the same bar. Anyone able to clarify? Perhaps they only sell the "heavy duty" version as a replacement part for the standard one.



If you have a 3500 that is supposed to have a standard bar, see if the part number sticker is still legible and measure the bar's diameter. My "heavy duty" bar is basically 1 inch (26.25mm).
 

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I think it just cost FCA $1000 more to make those fancy chromed plastic 2500 numbers over the 1500 and another $1000 for the 3500 over the 2500. In other words, they charge it because the can get away with it.
 

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Be careful about a rear bar on that 118" . It will change the "roll couple" . Folks started putting rear bars on their track cars and after a couple of spin outs , disconnected one end and the car was fine again .
 

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I agree that no bar on that low top dinky van is the way to go. Look, the suspension is too stiff now and adding a bar transfers axle motion across the van. All you would gain is more wheel hop on washboard gravel roads, more roll resistance which you don’t need and more reaction to potholes. Not a good solution.
 
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