[puffcard]

Not sure why this is still a thread and why people don't just do the pentastar engine cover mod. It's not hard to do and keeps the engine dry in the spots that matter.

I already fixed several leaks (front clearance lights, rear clearance lights, back door) and thought I give the dealership a chance, under warranty. My PM the cowling window gasket has a huge gap between it and the glass. The cowling is warped. I was looking and what I think is the strut tower has a crazy amount of corrosion on it for a 1,100 miles. I got to get on it. I'm certain I will be doing this one myself, after their replacement of the cowling. They did fix my folding mirror.

 

[PMSheVan]

Hello fellow PM friends! I thank all of you who have shared your situations and solutions regarding this water/leak issue. If it wasn't for this forum, you, and a very kind face book group individual, I would still be sitting here perplexed.

In mid July of 2020, I purchased my NEW 2019 136 WB low top (i'm short, so it works for me). She, yes my van is a she, has nearly 100 miles in total on her. She was seemingly fine except for the tire sensor light that wouldn't go off even after the sales guy sent me off the lot promising that they topped off the air and that in "10 miles, it should go off". Needless to say the light didn't turn off. I still proceeded to do a complete buildout which is why I didn't drive her too often yet. The buildout never integrated into any of the vans systems whatsoever (There's a reason why I'm sharing that detail), and she drove/worked just fine after I completed the buildout.

Less than a week ago, I went to bring her in to the dealer for an appointment that I had made to put on a hitch...This is when things got crazy. I turned the van on and released the parking brake and prepared to drive. She started up just fine but all of her instrument warning lights were illuminated. I turned her off and waited a few moments then proceeded to start her again; all of the lights were, once again, on. I then proceeded to move forward and prepared to head to the dealership when I noticed that my speedometer and tachometer were dead--Flatlined. I then tried to turn on the a/c and it, too, was dead. Then I tried to turn on the signals, hazards and the radio screen, those were also not responding. Needless to say, I delivered her to the service department and was treated like an idiot that must have done something to cause this new vehicle to have the above mentioned and visibly evident issues. They have had her for days and can't identify anything that would cause this and even tried to get me to commit (at my expense) to see if the buildout caused this because according to the rep "that is the only thing that they believe could make this happen". I was livid because I knew and conveyed to them that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the buildout to have in anyway affected the van in this manner. I was gutted. But now, I am oddly relieved because I realized that just before this all happened, we had torrential rains that lasted for several straight days (I'm in Florida, the it can rain slates of water in every direction state)... I fully believe that my van's issues are the result of the rain that compromised the electrical and engine compartment.

I now have information and hopefully some answers that I can share with the perplexed and quick to blame service rep and techs. I immensely THANK YOU for sharing your experiences regarding this matter. You have given me hope that this van I owe on can be repaired by the dealer and appreciated once I also implement some of your awesome solutions.

Please be aware that all newly registered members MUST make an introductory post in the Introductory Post Forum as per forum rules. Promasterforum.com Introduction Section

Please be aware until you do make the required introductory post any posts you make may be deleted as your introductory post helps other long time members when responding to you and also prevents spam.

 

[travelvanvan]

Hello fellow PM friends! I thank all of you who have shared your situations and solutions regarding this water/leak issue. If it wasn't for this forum, you, and a very kind face book group individual, I would still be sitting here perplexed.

In mid July of 2020, I purchased my NEW 2019 136 WB low top (i'm short, so it works for me). She, yes my van is a she, has nearly 100 miles in total on her. She was seemingly fine except for the tire sensor light that wouldn't go off even after the sales guy sent me off the lot promising that they topped off the air and that in "10 miles, it should go off". Needless to say the light didn't turn off. I still proceeded to do a complete buildout which is why I didn't drive her too often yet. The buildout never integrated into any of the vans systems whatsoever (There's a reason why I'm sharing that detail), and she drove/worked just fine after I completed the buildout.

Less than a week ago, I went to bring her in to the dealer for an appointment that I had made to put on a hitch...This is when things got crazy. I turned the van on and released the parking brake and prepared to drive. She started up just fine but all of her instrument warning lights were illuminated. I turned her off and waited a few moments then proceeded to start her again; all of the lights were, once again, on. I then proceeded to move forward and prepared to head to the dealership when I noticed that my speedometer and tachometer were dead--Flatlined. I then tried to turn on the a/c and it, too, was dead. Then I tried to turn on the signals, hazards and the radio screen, those were also not responding. Needless to say, I delivered her to the service department and was treated like an idiot that must have done something to cause this new vehicle to have the above mentioned and visibly evident issues. They have had her for days and can't identify anything that would cause this and even tried to get me to commit (at my expense) to see if the buildout caused this because according to the rep "that is the only thing that they believe could make this happen". I was livid because I knew and conveyed to them that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the buildout to have in anyway affected the van in this manner. I was gutted. But now, I am oddly relieved because I realized that just before this all happened, we had torrential rains that lasted for several straight days (I'm in Florida, the it can rain slates of water in every direction state)... I fully believe that my van's issues are the result of the rain that compromised the electrical and engine compartment.

I now have information and hopefully some answers that I can share with the perplexed and quick to blame service rep and techs. I immensely THANK YOU for sharing your experiences regarding this matter. You have given me hope that this van I owe on can be repaired by the dealer and appreciated once I also implement some of your awesome solutions.

Please be aware that all newly registered members MUST make an introductory post in the Introductory Post Forum as per forum rules. Promasterforum.com Introduction Section

Please be aware until you do make the required introductory post any posts you make may be deleted as your introductory post helps other long time members when responding to you and also prevents spam.

Firstly congrats on your new PM! It must be scary to have this happen so early in its life.

It sounds like the computer went nuts or something happened to some of the van's wiring.

During your buildout, did the engine battery run down? A low battery can cause all sorts of electrical issues.

Did you or they try to reset the computer? (If you have it at home now and the symptoms persist, unplug the engine battery for 15 to 30 min. I believe that will reset it.)

The heavy rains could have affected things. Hopefully not a mouse problem (chewing on the wiring).

If you're absolutely sure you didn't touch the PM's electrical system, then they'll have to fix it. It's a brand new van under warranty. You may need to escalate the problem or try a different dealer.

In my build, I didn't need to touch the electrical except for one thing: my DC-DC charger. And that was later on in the build. If I had similar problems and a dealer claimed it was my fault, I'd ask them prove it.

 

[phil]

So 2 yrs later the electrical tape was curling at the upper edge, but was still doing it's job and the center seam gutter sealant leaked. This time I used electrical tape from glass edge to the seam, gap the seam and continue to the other edge. Used black RTV on the tape edges to seal the ends of the tape. Also used RTV for the center seam after I removed the useless OEM gasket.

 

[phil]

Another pointless thing I did, seeing how the water travels and can I alter it so it won't overwhelm the left side drain.
It does work, but also need to keep debris out of the cowl.

 

[travelvanvan]

I was thinking that tape might be a "maintenance item" in that it would need to be replaced periodically. I chose gaffer tape in fall 2018 but it failed during the summer of 2019. I was hoping it'd last longer than 1 year.

The adhesive let go. The fact that it was black might have made it absorb more heat in the sun, getting it too hot for the adhesive. Or maybe the adhesive was not permanent enough. Maybe I'll electrical tape this time. 2 years is a satisfactory duration. I'll have to find a very wide electrical tape.

Re: seam, I chose a poor sealer (latex-based sealant, because I had some handy). It failed quickly. I slapped on 2 pieces of leftover Noico sound deadener. Now that stuff is amazing. It's never coming off. It's just there's a bright silver spot in the middle of my cowl now... (Which some of the black electrical tape will take care of.)

I kind of like your diversion on the windshield. I chose to replace the very thin drain and drain tubes with larger ones. But there are still the large holes for the windshield wiper arms. At least your diversion on the left reduces the amount of water that can go into the corners.

 

[phil]

I'll have to find a very wide electrical tape.

First try I used 2 strips of 3/4" cheap electrical tape, this time I just used 1 strip of 3/4" tape. I original ran the tape from edge to edge only to discover that the center seam budge lifted the bottom of the tape, that's where I also used RTV to bridge over.

 

[travelvanvan]

First try I used 2 strips of 3/4" cheap electrical tape, this time I just used 1 strip of 3/4" tape. I original ran the tape from edge to edge only to discover that the center seam budge lifted the bottom of the tape, that's where I also used RTV to bridge over.

Thanks, at first glance your tape looked wider than 3/4. I will give 3/4 a try.

 

[phil]

Another pointless mod I did to keep detritus out of the cowl while parked in the driveway, had some left over leaf guards taking up space in the garage.

 

[travelvanvan]

Another pointless mod I did to keep detritus out of the cowl while parked in the driveway, had some left leaf guards taking up space in the garage.
View attachment 67409

I don't consider it pointless. If it keeps the drains clear for no cost, why not.

 

[Balero]

19 pages of posts, wow. Just an FYI, we have a brand new 2021 PM and yep, same tiny drain holes, took all of one week for them to get plugged up from leaf litter. Many thanks to all who suggested fixes, at the very least I will carry string trimmer with me to clean the tubes.

 

[83Grumman]

I did this. 1/2" clear hose. It doesn't clog as easily.

 

[afox]

New twist on this problem. It snowed about a foot so I took a look under the hood, a lot of water was showing up in a new place: dripping down the wiper blade mechanism (silver tubing and flat bar at top of image below) on the driver side of the engine compartment. This water drips directly onto one of hte electrical connections which is facing up so water is going right into the connector. Its hard to tell but I think this water is coming from the channel on the side of the windshield between the glass and the metal.

Wondering if it would be good to fill this channel with silicone caulk or if anyone has found a way to limit this water ingress?

 

[phil]

@afox
Awhile back I noticed the left drain gets over whelmed with water while the right side has a wiper blade that redirects water to the center. To experiment, I redirected the water, post #365, also I removed the OEM drain hose assembly which enlarged the hole a bit and put a cut-to-fit funnel and hose in it's place underneath.

If the water drains fast enough it shouldn't overflow down the wiper hole, pic shows there is no room for error with the OEM setup if water backs up.

 

[afox]

Thanks @phil what material did you use for that water diverting device, assume glued to the windsheild?

I actually dont think this is water overflowing from the drain hole or the wiper hole. I think its coming from the corner where the cowl/windsheild/metal meet. I took that picture while the drain hole was clear and there was no water in the cowl.

I like your idea and think a large/broad funnel might actually be the best solution. Seems easier than sealing up all the leaks individually. Does your funnel fit with your 5L diesel tank?

 

[travelvanvan]

@afox, as I was applying silicone to the windshield at the bottom, I did press some caulk into the corners and, importantly, bridge the gap at the tip of the rubber gasket. I feel that helps.

I had meant to test it in the summer with a garden hose, but now it's darned cold out.

PS. The black residue is from a failed gaffer tape experiment from the year before. Gaffer tape did a great job...until it didn't...due to heat degrading its adhesive and highway wind speeds started to tear it from the van...

 

[travelvanvan]

Re: funnels, etc. I'm planning to go a different way: shields.

I've already done this for the engine via an ugly piece of spare plastic. But I plan to further put plastic or thin metal over all the electronics and wiring connectors I find, to act as umbrellas or hats.

This is because I don't think I can foresee every place that water can enter. I already encountered this when I sealed the infamous centre seam in the cowl...only to find that there were small gaps at the base of the windshield where the rubber gasket came away from the glass and water literally poured in when it rained. I thus had to silicone the windshield base.

I am thinking that if I cover everything vulnerable, then water can (unexpectedly) come in wherever it wants and I shouldn't have to worry about it.

For that thin metal shield, I was thinking of cutting up cheap aluminum turkey roasting pans from the dollar store.

Re: ugly engine cover; please don't laugh but here is what I stuffed in for the time being:

It's actually the lid for a plastic tub. Under it, and just visible at the bottom left, is some 1/2x1/2 mesh "arch" that's stiff enough to support the plastic and keep it away from any hot engine bits.

I will replace this lid with a better piece of plastic when I get a round to-it.

Just a note that while my tub lid is kind of dumb looking, the fact there is an upturned lip around it turned out to be useful. After thinking I had solved the water ingress problem via sealing the centre seam, I was surprised to find lots of water retained by the tub's lid, which lead to the discovery of the gaps at the windshield gasket.

 

[afox]

thanks @travelvanvan. I was going to use aluminum heat sheild material for an engine cover, it is highly malleable so easy to form to fit the shape you need but its hard to find and not so cheap...i struck out a few times trying to get some at a junkyard...

That is exactly what I was thinking with the silicone, hopefully its not too hard to remove when the windsheild needs to be replaced. there is a rubber gasket in between the glass and the metal that im sure the silicone will bond to, not sure what that is/does or if its replaced when the windsheild is replaced.

I think Im going to go crazy with funnels, its going to look weird but im going to put in at least a funnel in the center seam and one at the drivers side. The funnels seem like they will be easy to setup and remove when servicing and I can put hose on them and direct the water to the ground.

 

[phil]

Well wouldn't you know it, I had a leaf blocking the hole and water was dripping from the wiper linkage.

Thanks @phil what material did you use for that water diverting device, assume glued to the windsheild?

Had some scrap pieces of 2'x2' interlocking floor mat, stuck to the windshield with leftover double siding 3m home window plastic insulation film tape, I'm surprised it lasted so long. I'm looking for a material that looks a little bit better and catch more water the A pillar windshield trough.

I think its coming from the corner where the cowl/windshield/metal meet.

I used Permatex black RTV under the rubber and over the tape and into the trough,

I like your idea and think a large/broad funnel might actually be the best solution. Seems easier than sealing up all the leaks individually. Does your funnel fit with your 5L diesel tank?

I took a cheap funnel and cut the most of the top off, it only had to be large enough to catch water coming from the OEM hole, stuck a vinyl hose and zip tied it something convenient. The funnel location doesn't interfere with the tank. So the funnel is up against the bottom of the cowl with the hose attached, the zip tie went around where the funnel and hose over lap, so far nothing has moved.

The funnel is tucked up in there, ignore the closest tube I put an extra drain and later realized the water will drain out the wiper hole before it reaches the extra drain.

 

[afox]

Thanks for all the explanations @phil

I just put in a funnel on the drivers side, this is a funnel autozone sells with a hose already attached. Fit was tight enough that I just jammed it up in there and I dont think it actually needs to be secured. This funnel is not meant to replace the drain hose, i think ill have to reposition it or maybe get a narrow funnel like yours in addition to replace the drain hose. Also notice the electrical component (might be a blower fan) just behind and at the base of the funnel has a very nicely designed rubber hood covering it, I assume to keep the water off, interesting.

I also added this large funnel which I already had to the center of the cowl area, hope it catches any water that gets thru my center seam seal, hose for this funnel goes towards the drivers side exits below anything electrical at about radiator height.

Im also parking teh van on these ramps whenever there is snow on the roof or a chance of precip for now on. Between my driveways slope and the rear of the van being higher than teh front, nearly all of the snowmelt from the roof was making its way to the windsheild. These 6" ramps are plently to change the ramp angle so that all of the snow/precip that lands on the roof drains off the rear doors.Ive found this is also necessary to prevent water from ponding in the roof rib channels. On flat ground rain water will collect in those channels and may stay for days or until you drive the vehicle. That will be a spot to watch for rust as teh PM ages.

Van is covered with soot and drain holes were actually clogging with soot from local wildfires so I need to do some cleaning before I can do the RTV in the windsheild seam fix. I still want to attach some adhesive rubber J channel strip to the metal above the windsheild to deflect water to the door instead of down the windsheild. I was also thinking about waterproofing some

The last thing im trying is to "pot" the electrical connectors that teh water drips all over. Potting is filling the connectors/boards/etc with silicone or wax that makes teh component impervious to water. I think at teh minimum I could use silicone on each end of those connectors so that when water falls right into the connector it does not end up in the very small one wire compartments where there is a high chance for corrosion.
Sounds like this is easy to do with silicone but you have to use teh right kind of non-acidic curing silicone: Potting Electronics With Silicone