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Discussion Starter #1
I know, another PM vs Tranist thread. I am heavily leaning towards the PM HR EXT right now. I like the PM looks more and in California at least, they are on average around $10,000 less than the Transit. Seems to me the PM is the way to go.
 

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Yep! All other issues aside, the PM has a 9" lower floor in the back, looks a lot better, and is front wheel drive... three very good reasons.

I went to the NYC car show on Friday... tried to step out of the back of a Transit van.... almost broke my neck trying to reach the ground. Lucky that pretty blonde model was there to catch my fall!>:D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Flarespace is coming out with Promaster Flares too. Being 6’2” I was thinking of adding them. It’s crazy that the one thing I’ve seen so my people do, adding rear seats seems to be the major sticking point now. Funny, I JUST ran into someone at Walmart with a PM who added Sprinter seats. His set up was similar to others I have seen with the rails mounted on plywood. I didn’t see underneath of course but he described how it was reinforced using plate metal and cut tubular steel.

I’m on the fence. Taking the cautious approach to heart.
 

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No small consideration that even 6-footers can sleep crosswise in the PM. Saves a ton of room.

But no way, no how, would I install a passenger seat in a PM.

Care to elaborate on both/either points?

How much van length is actually saved with across-van sleeping?
 

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I haven't pulled the trigger on a new van, but I don't even follow the Transit forums anymore. The guibo/driveshaft debacle was the final straw for me. Seems like Ford forgot how to do simple, reliable design. The transmission is probably the only thing better about Transit.
 

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I bought (and love) the PM and Transit was runner-up. Both good vans, width made a big diff for me.

I wouldn't let the giubo hold me back if i really wanted a transit. All vans have weirdness3s and ford is at least replacing them now.

mangled by tapatalk
 

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Care to elaborate on both/either points?

How much van length is actually saved with across-van sleeping?
I won't install a seat because I know I do not have the skills to make it safe.

For a full-size bed, 75 - 54 = 21 inches of length saved. My cross-wise bed is 48 x 78, so that's 30 inches of length saved.
 

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My bed in my 136” van is 54 inches wide to stretch out but can be slid closed into a 27” couch with the two narrow mattress sections used as back rests for a 18’ deep seating. When it is closed my van seems big enough for more than 2. 74”-27”=almost 4 FEET of valuable space! AND it can be left open if desired, no set up or take down! Love the width of the Ducato... oops Promaster.
 

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...I wouldn't let the giubo hold me back if i really wanted a transit...
It's not the guibo itself that bothers me. It's the fact that Transit has a very short (around 1 foot I think) section of drive shaft at the front. That's actually why Ford was finally forced to address the guibo problems as a safety recall. On failure, the short section of driveshaft can flail around like a mace. In some cases it takes out brake lines or the transmission housing. It's going to be difficult to contain that energy due to length and how off-balance the shaft is relative to it's overall mass. There was nothing wrong with the tried and true design of a one-piece driveshaft using u-joints and slip yoke at the transmission.
As I said, it wasn't just this problem, but the half dozen other things I saw as half baked engineering in the new design. If Ford had simply imported the previous generation (MKV) front wheel drive van with a US certified engine (basically what FCA did with PM) I would have been all over that.
 

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Hi,
Not sure its fair to say that the crosswise bed saves 30 inches or so as the fore and aft beds allow the space to be used as the main seating/eating area because of the aisle between the fore and aft beds.

Best to draw up or mockup alternate layouts and see what seems to work best for you.

Gary
 

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Yeah, sounds like sleeping across van saves significant longitudinal length; although t’s too bad it requires crawling over each other getting in and out of bed. We tried that on rented RV with rear corner bed and hated it.

Maintaining ability to get in and out of bach doors would make it a compromise I could live with a little easier. At this point I like the idea of elevated dinette in rear wide enough to seat four and store single bikes underneath. Guessing 48” would suffice.
 

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I'm really glad that we had our ten years' experience in the truck tent before designing the van. I knew absolutely that I wanted a permanent bed and I did not want to scoot out the end of it. Crawling over is much easier for us.
 

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Cut........If Ford had simply imported the previous generation (MKV) front wheel drive van with a US certified engine (basically what FCA did with PM) I would have been all over that.
I would have too. Ford’s dealer network and my history pushed me that way but when I saw what they had done I ran to FCA.
 

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Yeah, sounds like sleeping across van saves significant longitudinal length; although t’s too bad it requires crawling over each other getting in and out of bed...
YMMV...
My wife and i had a longitudinal 54" x 80" standard size full in Van 1 as we couldn't imagine what "crawling over each other" would do to our night time rest.
BUT, when we had our 159" PM custom designed we were determined that no matter the inconvienince the added floor space due to going width-wise on the mattress was worth the risk.
We use two of the 25" x 77" Therm-a-Rest MondoKing 3D Self-Inflating Foam Camping Air Mattress (copied the text from my Amazon order..yea it's a mouthful !). Anywhooo some might remember we LOVE the Frolisleep System over the past 7 seasons (they are now common in rigs like the Travato). So we incorporated one in our PM under our 50"W x 77"L mattress area, on top we put 3" of organic latex as a topper...
with the blackout curtains in we could remain all day in that bed!

As for "crawling over each other" we find it is actually more agreeable/easier than schooching down the length-wise bed in V1.

Thom
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The lack of factory installed second row seats now seams to be the deciding factor for me. I thought it would be imminently possible to add safe second row seats but have heard many wise people say otherwise. That is leaving the Transit as my only real option.
 

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I don’t think it is a matter of having SAFE seating, many have done that. Seating that is DOT compliant and insurable is another matter.
 

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I don’t think it is a matter of having SAFE seating, many have done that. Seating that is DOT compliant and insurable is another matter.
I agree. Having seen some of the extra seat installs that others have done on the forum, I'm sure that they are SAFE, but would think by now that RAM would have added a second row seat option. They have 3 point seatbelt location provisions for extra seating in their current van (since it came out in 2014). Not sure why they just don't offer a seat package, probably with the window van configuration.

As for insurance issues.... suffice it to say, "AAARRRRGGGHHHHH!"
 

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I dont think anyone says its not possible to add safe rear seating. Its possible, its just not easy and will take a lot of effort or cost a lot of money and still might not be DOT compliant or insurable.

I did it and I am average in abilities. It took me at least 100 hours and cost me at least $800 to buy and add the transit seat to the PM. I benefited greatly by having the help of a really good local metal shop.
 
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