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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm pretty set on dual pane acrylic windows from Dometic: Seitz S7P.

Does anyone have a resource as to where I can purchase these windows. I read all of ]Davesnothome comments/installation photos here: http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44521&page=2.

I've reached out to Koberger in Germany and am waiting to hear back. Does anyone have any other resources? My understanding from several phone calls with Dometic is that domestic Dometic does have access to the S7P but none are in the US and it may be easier to order directly from a supplier with stock in Germany or the UK.

I'd also be curious to hear why I see so few of these in build-outs. Cost prohibitive? Worried about scratches on the acrylic or finicky screen/shade mechanisms?

Thanks for the help everyone!
 

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I'd also be curious to hear why I see so few of these in build-outs. Cost prohibitive? Worried about scratches on the acrylic or finicky screen/shade mechanisms?
We've had similar Seitz windows in all the RVs we've rented in Europe and decided against them for all the reasons you mentioned. The screens/shades are very finicky. You have to be slow and deliberate or else they jam or jump out of their tracks. Plus the shades are basically paper. Even opening the awning window is a bit finicky. Nice idea, but just too finicky and flimsy for us. We love the solid feel of our Motion Windows.
 

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It's very tough to find an importer for these, but there's a Chinese version sold by this company.

https://www.ternoverland.com/eurovision-windows

I was dead set on these too, but found they didn't give me as much window area as I wanted because of extra space required by the blinds. If you don't want much window area they might work for you.

The owner is a nice guy and responsive to questions. I can pm you a few documents he gave me. I didn't get permission from him to post.

Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was dead set on these too, but found they didn't give me as much window area as I wanted because of extra space required by the blinds.

Good Luck
When you say these too, are you referring to the Eurovision blinds blocking the window area, or the Seitz blinds? Thanks.
 

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When you say these too, are you referring to the Eurovision blinds blocking the window area, or the Seitz blinds? Thanks.
I'm not as familiar with the Seitz clearances, but I think both require additional room inside to house the blinds. I need to look at the pdfs he gave me to be sure, but as I recall they add 150 mm to the Eurowindows vertically. When you factor in the thicker sills that surround the flat areas on the windows it adds up. If you clear the stills to get higher windows then the window sandwich gets very thick.

You can mount the windows without the blinds, but that defeats much of the purpose. I think they are better suited to flat slab sided rigs like class A's C's and trailers. But if you like the windows in the Hymer Activ then they might work for you. I'd recommend going to an RV dealer and compare the inside of an Activ to a Travato. If you are okay with the amount of light you get in the Hymer, then I'd say the tradeoff is worth it. I went with Motion in the end, but I could have just as easily done CRL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You can mount the windows without the blinds, but that defeats much of the purpose. I think they are better suited to flat slab sided rigs like class A's C's and trailers. But if you like the windows in the Hymer Activ then they might work for you. I'd recommend going to an RV dealer and compare the inside of an Activ to a Travato. If you are okay with the amount of light you get in the Hymer, then I'd say the tradeoff is worth it. I went with Motion in the end, but I could have just as easily done CRL.
This is the primary reason I'm going in this direction. I've visited my local Hymer/Roadtrek dealer twice and spent two hours in an Aktiv. One of my primary goals was deciding whether to go in the Seitz direction, and I decided I love them and they let in plenty of light for me. With this conclusion in hand, and your analysis of the tradeoff, I'm further motivated to pursue the elusive Seitz option. I'll be up at 5am tomorrow to call the German dealer and see what I can do.

Thanks again, appreciate the help.
 

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Many years ago these windows were used on U.S. built Sprinter Class B van conversions. I have a friend who has one -- I think it is a Vista Cruiser or some such name. I think that Dometic does not offer them here is that they may not meet current federal standards. Why -- I would not know. Otherwise I think they would sell them here.
 

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Thanks again, appreciate the help.
No problem. If you do come up with something let @GaryBIS (http://buildagreenrv.com) know, he expressed an interest in feedback from anyone with this type of window.

In previous discussions there were some sellers in the U.K. on eBay but they no longer ship to the US. I think the best you can hope for is a friend or relative in Europe buying your windows for you and shipping them to you as a 'gift'. While I have some friends & relatives who might do this for me, I thought it was too much risk if the didn't fit, so I contacted the Tern Overland people. Either that or a friend with a Hymer/Roadmaster that you could take copious measurements and part numbers from.

One other consideration for me is my PM already has back windows, so really only side windows were on the table.
 

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I think that Dometic does not offer them here is that they may not meet current federal standards. Why -- I would not know. Otherwise I think they would sell them here.
Given that Hymer/Roadmaster are Canadian built IIRC, they might have a loophole there. Maybe Canada might be an easier source than Europe. Is there a separate Dometic Canada rep, eh?
 

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I was told by Dometic on Sunday that if you call a dealer, they should be able to get them for you. However this was just a guy at an RV show, so I'm not sure how accurate that info is. I know some people on other forums have just ordered from ebay or from stores in the UK or Germany and paid A LOT for shipping.

After seeing these windows in person on the Hymer Aktiv and on Steve's Backroader I can say that they are well worth the money IMHO.
 

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Like the look and everything. But am I seeing it right that you must open the screen in order to close the window? That would be a deal breaker in a buggy area.
 

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I contacted my local Dometic dealer who knew nothing regarding the Dometic SP7 windows with the 5m radius.

I got him up to speed, he called his supplier(s) - called me back.
I gave the 560 x 465 as a starting sample. He said he can get them $358 but not sure of shipping.

At this point I am not certain I want these very nice windows, might change my mind later.

If you are interested feel free to call Ty at MASTER KRAFT RV in Anaheim CA (714) 553-9336

Let us know the outcome if you choose to move forward with this. At our early design stage, our design is quite fluid.
 

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I got mine directly from China and I'm very happy with it.
I could buy it because I have a business and access to import-export.
The price was below $ 500 including shipping.
I could get more if there was a sufficient volume.
There are available in several sizes.
The manager told me they export all over the world, and even Germany.
They come with screen and blind ad double acrylic window.
They supply them with the thickness you request.
Never had a problem with it.
I can show the installation process.
 

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Hi, are these Chinese knock offs manufactured with the 5m radius curvature to match the pro master walls?My understanding is that the S7P were made for the Ducato/ProMaster curvature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Today I went and sat inside a Hymer Aktiv. I went to confirm my decision to order Seitz windows, and now I'm back on the fence.

While somewhat finicky, the screen/blind assembly is nifty and compact, a definite plus. The windows are also pretty decent. The arms that control the window position work relatively well, and the closure mechanism is solid. They're also thick-true double pane with gas between, so I am sure they do better with condensation/in cold weather.

My main negative take-away was that they're a. very dark and b. not great to look out of. I've been in a 159" that has front quarter panel (slider and opposite) CRL windows and man, what a view! I checked out some of the other B's on the lot today, and the acrylic is nowhere near as nice to look out of as glass. This may be obvious to many, but what a difference actually looking out of some made. You can see the texture/scratches in the plastic pretty well when the windows are in full sun as well. Note-by scratches I mean just those that exist by nature of the acrylic material itself-very hard to see unless in direct sunlight.

Now, maybe I should focus on the purpose of windows in my build. I'm a climber, surfer, and skier. I get up at the crack of dawn and return later on in the day, exhausted and ready to shower, eat, have a beer, and watch a movie/read a book before I get to bed early.

Perhaps I should see the dual pane positives weighing more heavily than the negatives I described above? As in live with the smaller viewing size and acrylic view in order to gain the benefits with condensation and heat retention?

**Looking for advice on dual pane vs. single pane. Huge difference? Only in condensation, or in heat retention/loss as well? What about if I put thick insulative covers over both windows-will dual pane still have a big advantage?

**Why do OutsideVan and other top custom converters who build vans for outdoor enthusiasts not use double pane windows if they're so much better? If they're not so much better, why did arguably the two most thought-out "Euro-style" Class B's (Aktiv and Winnebago Revel) choose these windows?

Any insight greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help so far.
 

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For years I have had Hehr double pane thermal windows and have not noticed as much condensation as when I had same window in earlier RV with single pane. Inside condensation runs down and has to find its way into a seep hole in frame exiting trailer.

In vans with factory single pane, when condensation takes place where does it go ? I agree great view for many of us is high up the list.
 

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I had similar concerns about heat loss, smaller vent areas and lack of awning windows. Still I went with the Motion windows, mainly for ease of install and overall quality (debatable I'm sure). But my biggest take-away from looking at RVs was how light and open aisles affected my perception of each unit.

They say to live in most other RVs, but out of class Bs. So maybe having a cozy cave you can sleep in may mean more to you than, say a nature blind.

I've been looking at double and triple-walled greenhouse polycarbonate sheets as a window covering/shade over glass instead of the usual reflectrix or MCD shades. Might be a way of having a bit of both worlds. Was trying to see if I could work in a sort of auxiliary awning setup, in case you think it might rain.
 

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My main negative take-away was that they're a. very dark and b. not great to look out of. I've been in a 159" that has front quarter panel (slider and opposite) CRL windows and man, what a view! I checked out some of the other B's on the lot today, and the acrylic is nowhere near as nice to look out of as glass.

**Why do OutsideVan and other top custom converters who build vans for outdoor enthusiasts not use double pane windows if they're so much better? If they're not so much better, why did arguably the two most thought-out "Euro-style" Class B's (Aktiv and Winnebago Revel) choose these windows?

Any insight greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help so far.
Here is my take on the first part. If you want to look outside, go outside. Running joke with my wife and I when talking about using the van is that you live out of the van, you don't live in the van. I met up with Steve on the forum this past weekend and he has one side window. It's nice for some light, but it's not really there to look outside while inside. You either sit outside or open the window or sliding door.

As for the second, my guess would be cost of the window however I'm not really sure.
 
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