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Van #2 2021 EXT
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Discussion Starter · #241 ·
I decided to run a 120v 3 wire from behind the drivers seat to the hot water tank location;

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I may never use this wire & so it might be a waste of $20 of wire & my time.

Here is the deal; If I ever get an inverter, I would probably connect it to the starter battery with the idea I would be running the PM engine as a generator to produce 120v. The wires for 12v especially for a large load like an inverter are best kept as short as possible (large amperage). As I have factory swivels an inverter under the seat is not an option. But I could put an inverter behind the seat under the “foot stool” required to make the swivel seats comfortable when turned 180degrees facing the back of the van.

For purposes of a van 120v 12-3 “can go the distance” (low amps in relation to 12v).

I think it was worth the cost and effort even though I currently have no plans for an inverter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #242 · (Edited)
Jan 13;

i had to do some actual work today, so I was only able to work on the van for about a limited amount of hours.

INSULATION:
Well got the driver’s side; wall to ceiling 1” / highest panel 2” / middle panel 2” done today c/w glued in place with spray foam.

1” & 2” Polyiso; Enerfoil by IKO

Spray Foam; Window & Door by “Great Stuff”

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Tools;
Drywall “T” Square
HD Olfa Knife with new blade
Tape Measure

Technique; I cut the board to dimensions “rectangular”. Then I cut out the corners & because I am using 2” the boards join at the structural vertical wall supports & I cut channels out of the 2” so it has 1” of insulation over the structural supports - mostly 2” everywhere else. I do not use a marker, I find it easier & quicker to place the board into place & mark where I need to cut with the knife. Then I cut out for the obstruction. The round corners that have a bit of a conical shape I also mark with the knife and cut the round corner. Sometimes the back edges need “relief” & I carve that away with the knife. It kinda reminds me of whittling wood or carving.

I hold the boards into place with foil tape (no sprung sticks). Once it is all in place and checked for squeak free, I shake up a can of spray foam and fill in the voids. This time “no drips onto the floor”. I did not even get my gloves dirty. Today I used 1 full can, let that set up, and completed with another can & the remainder of the second can went into voids like the horizontal wall stringer.

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Discussion Starter · #243 ·
Jan 14;

Ran some more electrical today. Some power & control wiring for a future Fiamma F80 Awning. Cleaned up some more insulation work. Also started to look at water fill & venting for the fresh water tanks.

Then I went & got my Covid booster shot & waiting to see if I get the “Moderna Hangover” 🤒😷
 

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Discussion Starter · #244 · (Edited)
Jan 15;

Not a build productive day, but a head scratching design day. So Jan 15th was dealing with power requirements of a future awning - here is the link;


Then I got involved with sorting out a design for the wheel well water tanks for fill, vent, drain, supply outlet. I find mechanical the toughest part of design in building a van. I need to get some pipes behind the wall panels in order to have a “neat” design/install. This involved multiple trips to buy parts & “test” mockup.

Moderna Hangover; So also was suffering the reaction (better now) of the Moderna “booster shot”. So it was a good Home Depot / Lowe’s day of plumbing isle head scratching & cobbling / MacGyver’ing plumbing parts together.🤒🤔🤔

lol, “The Mad Scientist Bench”;

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Discussion Starter · #245 ·
Jan 16;

Worked a part day on the van on setting up the wheel well fresh water tanks - Thanks @Curious Campervans !!

So I have about 17” behind the wheel well tanks & I do not want to loose any space due to plumbing lines. The wheel well tanks came with 4 female 1/2” fittings @ the corners of the rear side of the tank & 1 1.5” @ the top of the tank near the back.

I will need to get a spin weld 1/2” female outlet fitting near the front on the inside bottom corner (both tanks).

I ran PEX fill lines and vent lines for both tanks today. The fitting I am using to fill is a male garden hose thread & that goes to a PEX fitting & PEX to the tank. The vent line comes of the back fitting & follows the fill line into the rear pillar cavity & then goes up the rear pillar quite high 5’ level. It was a bit tough working PEX into the rear pillar cavity, but some scratched up hands and a few hours work & it is done & tested. I also made up my own RV style adapter with some hose & 2 female garden hose fittings. Once hooked up I turn on the hose & then goto the van fitting that has a ball valve and I can control the foow right at the van’s water fill fittings.

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Then I installed polyiso 2” on the passenger side wall & spray foamed the gaps with Great Stuff “Window & Door”.
 

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2018 136 HR Ont.
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I ran PEX fill lines and vent lines for both tanks today. The fitting I am using to fill is a male garden hose thread & that goes to a PEX fitting & PEX to the tank.
I know you have a lot of time and $ invested in your plumbing but I have to ask if you considered using flexible hose. It's easier to work with and not as subject to movement/vibration damage as semi rigid. I have good quality garden hose that has been used, abused, stepped on, run over, left outside all year for twenty years with no damage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #247 ·
I know you have a lot of time and $ invested in your plumbing but I have to ask if you considered using flexible hose. It's easier to work with and not as subject to movement/vibration damage as semi rigid. I have good quality garden hose that has been used, abused, stepped on, run over, left outside all year with no damage.
Thanks @83Grumman for your suggestion.

I have not considered “garden hose” but I have considered the typical RV hose (of many varieties). In fact I had purchased hose for the vent, but the OD was just too large to thread thru the PMs factory holes. So I took that back to the store.

I might use hose from the tank to the pump. I have not decided yet. The tank outlet is 1/2” female & both PEX & hose fittings are readily available. Last van , I used flexible hose at both inlet & outlet of the pump to reduce pump noise & to isolate the pump vibration.
 

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2016 3500 ext-ht
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Thanks @83Grumman for your suggestion.

I have not considered “garden hose” but I have considered the typical RV hose (of many varieties). In fact I had purchased hose for the vent, but the OD was just too large to thread thru the PMs factory holes. So I took that back to the store.

I might use hose from the tank to the pump. I have not decided yet. The tank outlet is 1/2” female & both PEX & hose fittings are readily available. Last van , I used flexible hose at both inlet & outlet of the pump to reduce pump noise & to isolate the pump vibration.
Good call on flexible hose from tank and at least a small section on the outlet side of the pump. Less transferred noise/vibration and stress on pump fittings.

Heater elements?
 

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2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
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Hi RV,
I used the flex hose that Shurflo sells with their pump to reduce vibration/noise transfer from pump through hose - seems to help. These are threaded (maybe garden hose size?). If I were doing it again, I'd try to find a quick disconnect fitting fore the pump inlet and outlet to make it easier to clear the pump of water for freeze protection when we let the van go cold.

Gary
 

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Discussion Starter · #250 ·
Good call on flexible hose from tank and at least a small section on the outlet side of the pump. Less transferred noise/vibration and stress on pump fittings.

Heater elements?
Thanks @el Jefe

Both those tanks are fresh water supply 22 us gal each 44 total (166 L total).

But you bring up a good point; I suppose if I wanted, I could use one for a solar dump non pressurized hot water tank.

I’m still looking for a solution for a HWT. Would like to use propane & vent the combustible exhaust to the underside of the chassis.

There is this under chassis propane HWT tank

 

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Discussion Starter · #251 · (Edited)
Hi RV,
I used the flex hose that Shurflo sells with their pump to reduce vibration/noise transfer from pump through hose - seems to help. These are threaded (maybe garden hose size?). If I were doing it again, I'd try to find a quick disconnect fitting fore the pump inlet and outlet to make it easier to clear the pump of water for freeze protection when we let the van go cold.

Gary
Thanks @GaryBIS

I used the Shurflo “pump isolator hose kit” as well in my 2018 & agree with you it makes a difference. But I found out those hoses connected to these standard PEX threaded fittings (not Garden Hose), more like “Clothes Washer Hose”;

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This time around (having learned from some of my past errors) here is the rough plan;

1) near the tank outlets “shut off valves”
2) tanks joined with a “T”
3) Threaded supply end like the one in the photo above for “pump isolation hose”
4) Common Drain Line “T” into common tank line c/w shut off valve & thru floor discharge which has a threaded gasket cap on the outside end (keep road grim out & prevent accidental fresh water discharge if valve gets hit or turned on by accident). This is a gravity drain line - no pump required.

I suppose I could also tie in “the fore of the pump” to utilize the thru floor drain to clear the pump as well. 🤔

Thanks for your suggestions, I need to think thru the pump side a bit more.
 

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2019 Promaster 3500 Silver high top 159"
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The flex hoses used to connect the sink with the wall bib work great. They fit both NPT and BPT and seal finger tight. I used that on the pump.

The swivel elbows I used on the PEX required a wrench before they reliably sealed. I've been slowly replacing them with flex. The hot water tank still needs the upgrade... But that will probably wait until I have some need to move the tank as it seems tight now.
 

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2018 136 HR Ont.
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This looks fragile. I think you are going to have trouble with those connections when that tank full of water gets bounced around when the van is driven.

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Discussion Starter · #254 ·
This looks fragile. I think you are going to have trouble with those connections when that tank full of water gets bounced around when the van is driven.

View attachment 81950
Well that is definitely a possibility. Are you concerned with the threaded connections or the PEX crimp rings?
 

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Discussion Starter · #255 ·
The flex hoses used to connect the sink with the wall bib work great. They fit both NPT and BPT and seal finger tight. I used that on the pump.

The swivel elbows I used on the PEX required a wrench before they reliably sealed. I've been slowly replacing them with flex. The hot water tank still needs the upgrade... But that will probably wait until I have some need to move the tank as it seems tight now.
Thanks @larry barello

I had a couple of those going to my sink in the 2018 build & agree they seemed to work pretty good.

I have used PEX swivel & straight connectors & have not noticed leaking issues.
 

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I get the "sloshing" thing because mine does that, not that this is what @83Grumman meant for you. In the spring I'll probably figure out a fix. I have a face that goes on the garage area and the intake mounts in there. It's a little higher than the tank but and not enough higher, so it sloshes. Plus I'm not sure the clamp on the coil tube is the best choice. The screw on cap mostly holds the water back, but it's a hinky setup and I want to get that intake up higher that the tank intake.

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1. @RV8R as long as the elbows are not pinned down, I think you will have a lot of give. Those crimps and PEX are pretty rugged although I have had similar concerns. Regardless, my system has less "give" and I have not really pinned down the tank and I have "caught air" a few times ([email protected]#$ google maps and their back roads...) and "knock on aluminum" (I framed with that) no leaks so far except those cheap elbow swivels mentioned above.

2. @Lolaeliz How did you get your gravity fill to seal? I have the same system and I ended up goobering a lot of RTV inside the fill tube and clamping as hard as I could before it started holding water. I have about 8-10" of head and it could be more.

3. @RV8R I have no direct experience other than my van, and I took to heart the advice to never, ever, pressure fill the tank. Hence the gravity fill (and vent). Having a hard fill and a vent should be good, in theory, as long as the vent can dump excess water faster than the fill. Just sayin'
 

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2. @Lolaeliz How did you get your gravity fill to seal? I have the same system and I ended up goobering a lot of RTV inside the fill tube and clamping as hard as I could before it started holding water. I have about 8-10" of head and it could be more.
So I think by gravity fill you mean the cap with the screw on closure? And by seal, it you mean connect it to the green and white hose/tube coming oit of the intake port? I just forced that green and white tube onto both ends and just clamped it. That hose is more flexible than braided nylon at that size. That's why I used it, plus it fit both ends of the port. I have very little distance between the tank and the back of the van. I got it from Recpro, where it seemed to be what they sell for their water tanks, although I've never seen anyone else use it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #260 ·
1. @RV8R as long as the elbows are not pinned down, I think you will have a lot of give. Those crimps and PEX are pretty rugged although I have had similar concerns. Regardless, my system has less "give" and I have not really pinned down the tank and I have "caught air" a few times ([email protected]#$ google maps and their back roads...) and "knock on aluminum" (I framed with that) no leaks so far except those cheap elbow swivels mentioned above.

2. @Lolaeliz How did you get your gravity fill to seal? I have the same system and I ended up goobering a lot of RTV inside the fill tube and clamping as hard as I could before it started holding water. I have about 8-10" of head and it could be more.

3. @RV8R I have no direct experience other than my van, and I took to heart the advice to never, ever, pressure fill the tank. Hence the gravity fill (and vent). Having a hard fill and a vent should be good, in theory, as long as the vent can dump excess water faster than the fill. Just sayin'
Thanks for that @larry barello

I’m not all that worried about the PEX & it is not pinned down & I do not foresee any real issue, but if there is I have faith in myself that I can sort it out. There are a few things to consider for my pressure fill & tank vent PEX lines;

1) both lines are setup to gravity feed into the tank
2) in theory the vent should never see water in it from pressure filling ( tank air expels easier than water fill )
3) right where I connect a “garden hose” I have a ball valve that I can control flow with or stop the flow all together
4) I am a hyped diligent person when it comes to such menial tasks as filling the van’s water tanks
5) other than “free flowing” fill water these lines are never going to see any psi. For the majority if their life however long or short, the vent line will see mostly air & the fill line will see fill water 5mins every 2 weeks.
6) all fitting are exposed to sight - if something does go wrong I can fix it.
7) PEX and the fitting/crimps are rated for somewhere around 160psi @ 73F 100psi @ 180F & I believe our RV pumps produce 30 or 40 psi.

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