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Hey there folks! I am wrapping up the wiring diagram that I am working on for my sister, she is building out a PM in Denver, CO. I am in Oregon lending my hand where needed. I have sent this information out to a couple of friends in the solar and electrical business, but more eyes would be appreciated. Attached is the load information and the wiring diagram. On the diagram I have yet to add the 14Ga. wire that they will need, but in most cases, it is jacketed strand 2-wire. For the lights and outlet string they will need to use single conductor strand wire.

Any advice would be highly recommended.
 

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2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
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Hi Justin,

A couple thoughts...

The #7 wires supplying the 2000 watt inverter seem small.
If you are going to want to be able to use the alternator at 2000 watts, that's about 2000/12 = 167 amps. This voltage drop table says you would need something more like 2 gage depending on length of wire.
http://www.solarseller.com/dc_wire_loss_chart___.htm

The wire that connects the PM battery to the house battery (via the BludSea VCR) should be fused or breakered on both ends (ie a fuse near the PM battery and a 2nd one near the house battery). This is because both batteries are large current sources, so a short anywhere along this wire to ground can pull excessive current from either battery.

The max current for for 10 gage wire is 30 amps, but you have a 40 amp fuse in the wire from house battery to the DC fuse panel -- seems like it should be a 30 amp fuse? Is 30 amps OK for the max DC loads you expect to see at one time? That is, should the 10 gage be larger?
You might also want to check voltage drop along this wire to make sure its less than 2% for you max DC load situation (link above).
http://www.cerrowire.com/ampacity-charts

In the wiring from PM battery to house battery, you show a wire connecting the plus terminals (via the VCR), but don't show a negative wire -- that is, you are relying on the chassis grounds to care this load. I guess this is OK if you have really good chassis grounds, but if it were me, I would (and did) run a full size 2 gage wire between the negative terminals on the two batteries. Chassis grounds corrode over time and can be a real pain.


I don't claim any expertise in this stuff, so feel free to disagree :)

Gary
 

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2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
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Hi again,

On the load table, is the 0.0069 hours per day for the 120 VAC loads a typo? That would be less than half a minute for each load.

Also, did not see a load for the furnace fan -- maybe you don't have one?
This is one of the more significant loads on my conversion.

Gary
 

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2014-159 HR in CT
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Justin,

You're showing the (5) 12V outlets wired in series.... I'm sure you meant parallel (ie. all +'s together to fuse panel, all -'s to ground.)

These 12V and dual USB are readily available on eBay at some very cheap prices.... I have 'em all over my van. On the counter, I put a few of them in a box. In the columns, I just drilled a hole in the plastic panel for them.



ed
 

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2014 136” HR
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+1 on lots of 12V outlets, both USB and cigarette type. I was reading a review of a high-dollar conversion and there were no outlets by the bed. Inexcusable. Don't ask why. Ask why not.
 

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Justin,

You're showing the (5) 12V outlets wired in series.... I'm sure you meant parallel (ie. all +'s together to fuse panel, all -'s to ground.)

These 12V and dual USB are readily available on eBay at some very cheap prices.... I have 'em all over my van. On the counter, I put a few of them in a box. In the columns, I just drilled a hole in the plastic panel for them.



ed
I put about 100+ of those dual usb chargers in a fleet of car haulers. Every guy complained about how bright the blue light was. They are money cheap, but they are also quality cheap and the nut on the back cross threads too easy.
 

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GaryBIS has some excellent observations. In my van I used battery mounted marine fuses and holders that are compact and easy to install. I bought them from Waytek, which seemed to have the best prices:

https://www.waytekwire.com/products/1367/Fuses/&Type=MRB-Fuse&pageSize=36

https://www.waytekwire.com/products/1495/Fuse-Holders/&Fuse-Type=MRBF
Id recommend circuit breakers for this exact reason. When you do trip one its easy to find whats tripped and reset it. Searching for a blown fuse in the dark is not fun for anyone. While those marine fuses are nice and small where do you get replacements when you are out in the bush and one pops?
 

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I put about 100+ of those dual usb chargers in a fleet of car haulers. Every guy complained about how bright the blue light was. They are money cheap, but they are also quality cheap and the nut on the back cross threads too easy.
But, once installed without cross threading, they work well. Everyplace I use them, they are controlled by a switch, so the blue light is off except when in use. I suppose a bit of black paint would solve the blue light issue. :)
 

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Justin,

It is awesome that you are helping your sister with her build. I am in Hood River and have reviewed and advised a number of DIY van up-fitters regarding electrical diagrams. Feel free to call me to go over your diagram.

My daughter lives in Denver. I would be happy to speak with your sister directly if she has any questions.


All the best,
Hein
Impact, Inc.
Hood River, OR
54l 49O 5O98
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Justin,

You're showing the (5) 12V outlets wired in series.... I'm sure you meant parallel (ie. all +'s together to fuse panel, all -'s to ground.)

These 12V and dual USB are readily available on eBay at some very cheap prices.... I have 'em all over my van. On the counter, I put a few of them in a box. In the columns, I just drilled a hole in the plastic panel for them.



ed
I did mean parallel. Thank you though and thank you for the product recommendation.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi Justin,

A couple thoughts...

The [URL=http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=7]#7 [/URL] wires supplying the 2000 watt inverter seem small.
If you are going to want to be able to use the alternator at 2000 watts, that's about 2000/12 = 167 amps. This voltage drop table says you would need something more like 2 gage depending on length of wire.
http://www.solarseller.com/dc_wire_loss_chart___.htm

The wire that connects the PM battery to the house battery (via the BludSea VCR) should be fused or breakered on both ends (ie a fuse near the PM battery and a 2nd one near the house battery). This is because both batteries are large current sources, so a short anywhere along this wire to ground can pull excessive current from either battery.

The max current for for 10 gage wire is 30 amps, but you have a 40 amp fuse in the wire from house battery to the DC fuse panel -- seems like it should be a 30 amp fuse? Is 30 amps OK for the max DC loads you expect to see at one time? That is, should the 10 gage be larger?
You might also want to check voltage drop along this wire to make sure its less than 2% for you max DC load situation (link above).
http://www.cerrowire.com/ampacity-charts

In the wiring from PM battery to house battery, you show a wire connecting the plus terminals (via the VCR), but don't show a negative wire -- that is, you are relying on the chassis grounds to care this load. I guess this is OK if you have really good chassis grounds, but if it were me, I would (and did) run a full size 2 gage wire between the negative terminals on the two batteries. Chassis grounds corrode over time and can be a real pain.


I don't claim any expertise in this stuff, so feel free to disagree :)

Gary
!. Was going with #7 because the manufacturer supplies them. But I understand this now. Will correct to use #2 wire. Length is going to be as short as possible.

2. So what I am reading here is that I should scrap the 80A Maxi Fuse and add large breakers on either end of the ACR, as close to the batteries as possible. Any recommendations on what breaker to use would be helpful.

3. Switching the wire to #8 on the pos and neg leads for the fuse block. 40A is what we are planning the load max for.

In the wiring from PM battery to house battery, you show a wire connecting the plus terminals (via the VCR), but don't show a negative wire -- that is, you are relying on the chassis grounds to care this load. I guess this is OK if you have really good chassis grounds, but if it were me, I would (and did) run a full size 2 gage wire between the negative terminals on the two batteries. Chassis grounds corrode over time and can be a real pain.

4. Understood. I will run a #2 wire from PM battery to the House battery that is not already connected to the PM battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi again,

On the load table, is the 0.0069 hours per day for the 120 VAC loads a typo? That would be less than half a minute for each load.

Also, did not see a load for the furnace fan -- maybe you don't have one?
This is one of the more significant loads on my conversion.

Gary
You are correct. My math is wrong and brings up the AH significantly. Also no furnace fan. We are waiting to see how the van envelope performs before going backward to adjust for a heater if necessary. Would be a pain but it was decided that this path was more advantageous than installing an expensive heater and only needing it a few days out of the year.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
+1 on lots of 12V outlets, both USB and cigarette type. I was reading a review of a high-dollar conversion and there were no outlets by the bed. Inexcusable. Don't ask why. Ask why not.
I agree. Why would you ever not want the option to plug something in, in a different area?! Outlets are cheap, regrets are not.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Id recommend circuit breakers for this exact reason. When you do trip one its easy to find whats tripped and reset it. Searching for a blown fuse in the dark is not fun for anyone. While those marine fuses are nice and small where do you get replacements when you are out in the bush and one pops?
I will be going with circuit breakers. Any recommendations on sourcing?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Justin,

It is awesome that you are helping your sister with her build. I am in Hood River and have reviewed and advised a number of DIY van up-fitters regarding electrical diagrams. Feel free to call me to go over your diagram.

My daughter lives in Denver. I would be happy to speak with your sister directly if she has any questions.


All the best,
Hein
Impact, Inc.
Hood River, OR
54l 49O 5O98
Once I revise the diagram I will shoot you a phone call to chat briefly. Much thanks for reaching out.
 

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2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
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You are correct. My math is wrong and brings up the AH significantly. Also no furnace fan. We are waiting to see how the van envelope performs before going backward to adjust for a heater if necessary. Would be a pain but it was decided that this path was more advantageous than installing an expensive heater and only needing it a few days out of the year.
Hi,
I think its OK to go down to 80% depth of discharge -- especially if its not an every day thing.
If you look around on the Trojan battery site, they have some graphs that show battery life in cyles versus depth of discharge, and I can't remember the exact number of cycles for 80% discharge, but its pretty good. This holds true if the van is used as an RV maybe 30 times a year, but if its a live in that is cycled every day, the usual 50% depth of discharge is probably a good idea.

Gary
 

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I will be going with circuit breakers. Any recommendations on sourcing?
Unfortunately no, you are on the wrong side of the border.
Ive had good results with Cole Hersee products though, they've yet to let me down like some of the other made in asia relays/circuit breakers/solenoids
 
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