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Discussion Starter #1

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I doubt it as well. Peugeot and Citroen both use the Fiat Ducato as the base with their own diesel engines and I doubt that they would certify theirs with all the problems that the U.S. has with new diesel emissions. It’s possible that Opel might bring their van to replace the aging Chevy and GMC vans as they are subsidiaries of GM.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
GM sold Opel.

Fiat got around the Chicken Tax, called Mexico.
Fiat threw an american engine and transmission in a Ducato and rename it.

What's coming is unknown to us.

It's all speculation anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So the Boxer and Jumper not likely, that leaves the Opel or Vauxhall Movano. Any way that's years down the road.
 

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Looking it over, PSA’s plan to re-enter the market starts with ‘Mobility Services’ which is something akin to Carvana presumably for used vehicles, as there aren’t any existing Peugeot or Citroen dealerships. They also have a toe in the car, e-scooter and bike sharing market.

Most auto companies are running scared with the advent of Uber and Lyft and those dang ‘Millennials’ who don’t like buying things the way Adam Smith intended. In that new order, vehicles are just a peripheral to a vast data processing network. Oddly you don’t hear much about the rental industry in the march to ownerless self-driving vehicles. It seems their goose will eventually get cooked. Some are positioning themselves to do fleet service and maintenance and in the near term work toward selling or leasing vehicles to Uber and Lyft drivers. For some reason this conjures up images of the ‘rogue robots’ repair shop in Wall-E.

Anyway, where does this put vans and trucks? My guess is these will lag the market as PSA will have enough trouble dealing with passenger vehicles. Add in the chicken tax and other barriers to modernizing truck fleets in the US and we won’t see any PSA vans or trucks for a long while, if at all. And when they do hit our shores, they may be radically different than existing vans. The rental truck industry has yet to be Uberized; right now it’s dominated by entrenched moving and logistics companies. Most people rent vans for moving and short term business logistics, so it seems likely the Uberization will be by service companies like ‘Two Guys and a Truck’, ‘1-800-GOT-JUNK’, ‘U-Haul’, ‘Enterprise’, etc.

As consumers we’re very much at the margins of the needs of small businesses, large fleets and the RV industry. Ownership seems deeply entrenched in the a RV industry; even the #vanlife millennials seem to buck the ownerless trend. There are various AirBnB style RV niche markets, but RVs seem dominated by a make it your own mentality, so this market segment may be anomalous— there’s hope yet for enthusiasts. Although given the age of many RVers, self driven RVs might not be such a bad thing ;).

Small businesses seem much the same way. I don’t see Joe Plumber or HVAC showing up in a self-driving electric van any time soon. Large delivery fleets seem likely to diverge into expensive highly specialized self-driving Amazon/UPS/Fedex/USPS vehicles (or drone motherships ;)) that are unlikely to trickle down to consumers. But we’re still waiting for a front-end facelift and diesels to arrive, so like most futurists I think our predictions will be wrong much more than right.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I'm guessing you and I read different articles.
This is 3 part plan,
Part 1 car sharing, rental service app using other brands, already started limited market.
Part 2 slowly introducing their brands into part 1 while gathering marketing data, a try before you by sort of thing, no dealerships needed.
Part 3 if all goes well they start regionally at first, based on marketing data.
Brand recognition will grow slowly over time.
This is a long term strategy, something like 10 yrs long.

? can you bring a van in that meets US standards and rent it out, but not for sale to test the market ?

This is how Alfa Romeo is doing it, 3 models and lots of ads on TV, sorta of old school but they are selling them.
 

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A few quick thoughts....

It's a shame that PSA vehicles are not sold in the USA anymore, I have owned several Peugeot (106, 307) and Citroen (Evasion minivan, a Fiat twin) vehicles outside the USA and been quite happy with them.

Alfa Romeo is a poor example, as they are an FCA subsidiary and can plug in to the existing network that has already started marketing Fiat vehicles in the USA.

If GM were to introduce a modern van to the North American market, I suspect that it would be a variant of the Renault Trafic/Opel-Vauxhall Vivaro/Fiat Talento/Nissan NV300, whether actually built in North America or using one of the various workarounds to avoid the Chicken Tax.
 

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I'm guessing you and I read different articles.
Same article different takeaways on their strategy and intent. Respectfully you want there to be a PSA van in the USA or at least better options in the market, so you are seeing a path to a PSA van. Maybe I’m overly optimistic on the rise of self-driving vehicles and other disruptions in the market within 10 years, but I’m projecting the truck and van markets will likely lag or buck this trend anyway.

To me emphasizing mobility solutions targets young buyers that don’t remember that Peugeot is known in the US for soft suspensioned diesels and Citroen for unique aerodynamic luxury cars and the 2CV. I own a Scion, so I’ve seen a very capable car manufacturer screw this strategy up. These aren’t particularly affluent buyers and #vanlife aside, not in the market for vans. As I said these are fleet buyers (including rental companies), small business owners and tradesmen and RV manufacturers. Old and middle age people who might remember Peugeot and Citroen, but definitely not for vans.

Ignoring this, what vans aside from the Boxer and Relay do Peugeot and Citroen have to sell? The Partner and the Expert and the Nemo, Berlingo, Dispatch and maybe the Spacetourer. All smaller than the Promaster. The diesels could be problematic for them emissions-wise. Citroen has more gassers. I don’t see unique offerings to distinguish from the PMC or smaller Transit or Nissan NV200 and other offerings like Mazda. But looking over their passenger line, I see products that might appeal more to younger buyers and older guys who still remember these brands.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)

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.......cut.....

Opel or Vauxhall Movano is a LCV.

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vans/movano/variants.html

......cut......

Movano looks like a good size van with nice length and height options, and in both FWD and RWD. It’s fairly wide, and the side walls look as vertical as those of Ducato/ProMaster. I also like that it comes up to 22-1/2 feet long on 170” wheelbase.

It seems to me that the greatest probability of the ProMaster getting FWD competition will be from Volkswagen Crafter, or if Mercedes decides to import/build FWD Sprinters for North America. Or if Ford decides to build FWD Transits in US.

In any case, I think Fiat may have to up their game to keep up with European offerings. For me, once a van isn’t garageable anyway, I’d like it as large as possible. In that respect the largest Ducato has fallen behind.
 

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I agree that Fiat may want to expand their size offerings, but I am sure the current range was influenced by American vs. European tastes. Traditionally you don't see as many high roof vans in the USA other than delivery step vans, builders and plumbers and exterminators and other trades traditionally used low roof American vans. The very high roof vans in Europe fill the role that is filled by small box trucks in the USA, but without the challenges of narrow European streets there may not be much of a market for those in the USA. It will take time for tastes to change.

As you point out, FCA does have other wheelbase and roof height combinations up their sleeves, ready to go if needed, as well as the opportunity to bring the U.S. Promaster up to the newest world standard as a "new and improved" model that is, in fact, already well-proven. Here's the current Ducato:





In any case, I think Fiat may have to up their game to keep up with European offerings. For me, once a van isn’t garageable anyway, I’d like it as large as possible. In that respect the largest Ducato has fallen behind.
 

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I agree that Fiat may want to expand their size offerings, but I am sure the current range was influenced by American vs. European tastes. Traditionally you don't see as many high roof vans in the USA other than delivery step vans, builders and plumbers and exterminators and other trades traditionally used low roof American vans. The very high roof vans in Europe fill the role that is filled by small box trucks in the USA, but without the challenges of narrow European streets there may not be much of a market for those in the USA. It will take time for tastes to change.

.....cut.....
Low-roof American vans, with exception of Chevy, are mostly a thing of the past. There is still a demand for them, particularly those who want to tow heavy trailers, but numbers are small compared to newer Euro-style offerings (which granted, also come in low roof).

However, my Ford Econoline van is only 53-inches tall inside, which is really low compared to even the low-roof ProMaster or Sprinter. There is a reason Ford discontinued the E-Series except as a truck-based Cut-Away for larger Class C motorhomes.

At a very minimum I’d like to see Ducato/PM get a slightly longer rear overhang. The Crafter and Sprinter (and also Ford) extend rear more than Ducato. The new Crafter is over 20” longer behind rear wheels.
 

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[QUOTE).

At a very minimum I’d like to see Ducato/PM get a slightly longer rear overhang. The Crafter and Sprinter (and also Ford) extend rear more than Ducato. The new Crafter is over 20” longer behind rear wheels.[/QUOTE]

The Ford 148" extended and the Sprinter 170" nonextended are no more volume than the Promaster 159" extended.
Now if you look at the L4-H3 in Europe, it will have more volume than the Sprinter 170" extended at around the same
vehicle height. Remember the Ford has a shorter wheelbase and is deceiving by looking at it. To much overhang in my
opinion.
 

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Low-roof American vans, with exception of Chevy, are mostly a thing of the past. There is still a demand for them, particularly those who want to tow heavy trailers, but numbers are small compared to newer Euro-style offerings (which granted, also come in low roof).
There is the Nissan NV series oddity that straddles this line a bit with high and low roof versions and V8s.

In the US market model designation confusion is rampant a la the Pro Master 1500 - 3500 debacle. You need a scorecard to figure this all out:

Okay, the Nissan NV200 was sold as a rebadged Chevy City Express (discontinued due to poor sales and parts incompatibility). The NV300 is a Renault Traffic which is also the Opel/Vauxhall Vivaro. And the NV400 is a Renault Master aka Opel/Vauxhall Movano. Interestingly, there's a 4 wheel drive version of the Renault Master introduced in 2016.

You'd think to introduce these vans to the US market, they'd go through Nissan considering the Renault relationship. But seeing as they used the NV 1500, 2500 and 3500 model numbers which apparently relate to "half ton", "three quarter ton" and "one ton" capacities, model designations got muddled. There's also the chicken tax and diesel emissions to consider unless you built them in Nissan's plants in Mexico and the US.

To sell the Renault Master/Movano/NV400 in the US, what badge should it sell under? Probably not Renault, or Opel due to past associations. Vauxhall? Seems like a lot of bother to launch a brand to sell one van. Maybe Peugeot or Citroen, depending on what they intend to do with these brands. Nissan seems a more logical choice, but they have this existing product line with confusing model numbers.
 

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I was suggesting that the Renault/Nissan vans could come to our shores as Chevrolet/GMC models.
 

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The Ford 148" extended and the Sprinter 170" nonextended are no more volume than the Promaster 159" extended.
Now if you look at the L4-H3 in Europe, it will have more volume than the Sprinter 170" extended at around the same
vehicle height. Remember the Ford has a shorter wheelbase and is deceiving by looking at it. To much overhang in my
opinion.
I agree that Ducato/PM has the best volume packaging, but that doesn’t mean to me iit can’t be made larger still. The Ducato only goes up to 159” WB, and 20’-10” total length. Other direct competitors are now up to 177” WB, and 24’-3” total length (if I recall correctly). Just saying that if Ducato/PM is stretched in similar manner, then cargo volume would return near the top of the van segment. Some vans are presently getting close to 20 cubic meters of volume.

While it’s not for everyone, there are enough of the largest-size PM, Sprinters, and Transits being converted by RV manufacturers into Class Bs that it suggest to me that there is a market for even larger van sizes. As I’ve said before, if an OEM came out with a super-wide (86”~90”) super-sized van, they would own the RV market.
 
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