[keithwwalker]

I disagree with two points.
I don't think Peugeot/Citroen had anything to do with the design of the Ducato chassis other than grilles and trim; their agreement with FIAT is the production factory and selling rights.

Second, GM own's 7% of Peugeot, but I don't think GM has a direct interest in Société Européenne de Véhicules Légers, which is the production factory joint venture.

If GM did, then you could logically conclude that Opel (GM) vans would be Ducato based. They are not.
Opel's van's are rebadged Renaults, they are not Ducatos.

I like GM better than Ram, but I don't think there will be a GM Promaster.

GM owns 7% of Peugeot, so the move is not entirely random. and FIAT and Peugeot developed the ducato TOGETHER, so I don't think FIAT has a say in the matter considering the design is partially Peugeots..

GMs commercial vans are aging and they need a modern solution, the reason they bought Peugeot was to ease costs associated with vehicle dev and production, it certainly seems this is an application of that partnership.

already in Europe the Ducato and Boxer share the same streets as well as an Opel version that rolls around.

We're going to have a promaster and a GM boxer weather we like it or not, its just the nature of a severely commingled auto industry...

Oh and as for the Nissan thing, GM is sourcing Nissan vans but only the smaller one to compete with the Ford Transit Connect.

 

[Ram3500']

It will certainly make the used parts industry valuable in a couple of years. When these trucks start to get used or replaced in 5-10 years we should see a flood of good used parts, and CHEAP.

I wonder if a GM dealer would service a Promaster when they bring over the GM Boxer or whatever name they're giving it, or vice versa at a RAM dealer...

I wouldn't be surprised if some Ram vehicles like the Sprinter already use some similar parts, so chances are there are some interchangeable parts, it's probably minimal but it will make a difference.

Definitely looking forward to the cheaper ownership days.

 

[hemiowner]

Here is an article about the possible GM/Peugeot/Citroen Van.

http://www.acarplace.com/news/2013/07/gm-may-import-euro-vans/

It looks like it could be the smaller Citroen Jumpy and not the Jumper. (I know weird names)

Its Fiat cousin is the Scudo. Some sites call it a mid size van. It fits between the larger PM/Ducato and the smaller Doblo/future PM City.

Not sure how a "mid size" will compete with the likes of the PM and Transit.

Even though the Scudo/Jumpy is a Fiat/PSA joint venture there is no indication Fiat plans to bring the Scudo here so there would not be badge engineered Ram version.

Not sure what GM will do to circumvent the Chicken Tax like Ford has to do with the Transit Connect.

Only government thinking can link chickens with light trucks.

For more on the Chicken Tax go here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Of course there is an Opel van that could be used. Who knows but at this point I doubt it will be related to the PM.

 

[DennisV]

Here is an article about the possible GM/Peugeot/Citroen Van.

http://www.acarplace.com/news/2013/07/gm-may-import-euro-vans/

QUOTE]


Yikes !

I'll say one thing for Europe,

they're not afraid of ugly.

 

[carnut]

..I'll say one thing for Europe,

they're not afraid of ugly.

At least half the vehicles over the last decade are downright ugly to me.

 

[randy]

I disagree with two points.
I don't think Peugeot/Citroen had anything to do with the design of the Ducato chassis other than grilles and trim; their agreement with FIAT is the production factory and selling rights.

Second, GM own's 7% of Peugeot, but I don't think GM has a direct interest in Société Européenne de Véhicules Légers, which is the production factory joint venture.

If GM did, then you could logically conclude that Opel (GM) vans would be Ducato based. They are not.
Opel's van's are rebadged Renaults, they are not Ducatos.

I like GM better than Ram, but I don't think there will be a GM Promaster.

If GM owns 7% they own 7% of Société Européenne de Véhicules Légers. I did my research into FIAT/Peugeot sharing development, if they didnt why would FIAT allow Peugeot to sell the van? Joint development is an extremely common theme in the auto industry now.

Mercedes and Nissan jointly developed the platform under the CLA and GLA and will be used for the upcoming Q30 and Qx30 from infiniti. Toyota and Subaru developed the BRZ/FRS together...

Its the only way to keep dev costs down without passing on costs to the consumer..

 

[Chance]

.....cut......

GVWR

The ProMaster can tow up to 5,100 pounds. The gross vehicle weight rating is 11,500 for the V6 and 12,500 for the diesel

Ford has not released actual numbers for the Transit but their website says payloads in excess of 5,000 pounds and GVWRs range from 8,600 to 10,360 pounds

Configurations and Capacity

Promaster

Available in 1500, 2500 and 3500 setup
View attachment 18

Transit

Available in 150, 250, 350 and 350HD setup
View attachment 19

Are we missing anything noteworthy here? These are just the specifications im using in my decision there may be other qualities y'all are judging based on, if so what are they?

The gross vehicle weight rating, or GVWR, listed above for ProMaster is actually the gross combined weight rating. That is, van plus trailer combined. The above comparison numbers are not apples to apples.

For the ProMaster 1500, 2500, and 3500 models the GVWR are 8550 lbs, 8900 lbs, and 9350 lbs respectively.

What this means to me is that even the one-ton 3500 model, if loaded down close to its GVWR as is the typical case for RV camper vans, won't have much excess capacity to tow a trailer.

The Ford with RWD and dual rear tires will be heavier duty. Ford hasn't published GCWR for the Transit as far as I know, but it's a safe bet that they will be much higher than the ProMaster's. For my intended RV use the ProMaster looks more promising though.

 

[uncubed]

"Rated for Capability
Real-world capability means not having to give up one advantage to enjoy another. With a GCWR of up to 5,670 kg (12,500 lb) and a towing capacity up to 2,313 kg (5,100 lb)"


This quote is from Chrysler Canada website.

 

[Chance]

"Rated for Capability
Real-world capability means not having to give up one advantage to enjoy another. With a GCWR of up to 5,670 kg (12,500 lb) and a towing capacity up to 2,313 kg (5,100 lb)"


This quote is from Chrysler Canada website.

Phrases like “UP TO” can be misleading if not applied in the right context. Particularly if combined with other “UP TO” at same time.

GCWR (gross combination weight rating) and GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) are not the same and can’t be used interchangeably. Additionally, when these two ratings are close to each other for a specific vehicle it implies that that particular vehicle cannot be loaded down and tow a heavy trailer at same time.

A good example is the one-ton gasoline ProMaster 3500. It has GVWR of 9,350 pounds and a GCWR of 11,500 pounds. It would not be unusual for a Class B RV van with options, passengers, and cargo to weigh in the range of 9,000 pounds. I expect a Winnebago Travato with four adults, generator, awning, camping gear and supplies could easily reach 9,000 pounds.

If that were the case, it would only leave a maximum trailer weight of 2,500 pounds before the GCWR of 11,500 pounds is reached. Likewise, ratings also suggest that for a gasoline ProMaster to tow a 5,000 pound trailer the van plus passenger plus van cargo weight would have to be kept at 6,500 pounds or less. The diesel ProMaster could handle an extra 1,000 pounds.