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2014 Promaster 3500 ext. I bought this too lease on with FedEx custom critical. I’m looking at putting around 75 to 80 thousand a year on it. I bought the extended because it allows a 4’ bunk area and still have the 8’6” that FedEx wants on the floor. The stand up room in it is another factor on my decision. The price was right on to that of a Chevy Express. There are some things that I can see bugging me on it however. They missed the comfy seat thing by a mile. I'm 56 years old 6'1" owned allot of vehicles in my day. This is absolutely the worst seat I have ever had in a vehicle and I had a Datsun B-210. The position of it is wrong, the "infinite adjustability they claim is a lie" The wife road in it for 15 miles and said no way would she ride in it much more than that unless she really had to. The seat back does not move from the seat bottom. The angle from the bottom to the back is set at the factory no recline. My lower legs are almost vertical in order to keep some bend in my arms at 10 and 2. If I drop the seat in the front to remove pressure from under my legs and bend my arms the back then becomes almost completely vertical and push’s me constantly forward. Dodge spent absolutely 0 time on the seat. Place your legs vertical with your feet flat on the floor and try to push the gas pedal. Then think about that for 300 miles a day. The seats are very cheap off the shelf crap. I like allot of things about the van but the seats are horrid and the only thing I really hate about it. There are the cup holders they brag about. They’re on the floor! The seat puts you in the roof, your coffee is on the floor now get on the highway with traffic and try to get your coffee. It’s eyes off the road lean forward so you can reach the floor from the sky high seat. It’s almost easier to just hold the coffee until it’s gone. The cup holder on the passenger side is easier to reach however. You can’t put a very tall cup in it because it leans towards the back of the van it doesn’t have a flat bottom in it. Small or medium to go cup is about it. When you step on the gas the cup falls out onto the floor. Bringing that cup holder out away from the dash 3/8’ and make the bottom flat now it works! Raise the cup holder up off the floor. The center cup holders raised up with a compartment under them that opens then one could put a clip board or paper work in there it would be a better use of the space. Look at the express it works. At less than 200 miles a brake started to squeal, now with 600 on it I have at least two squealing. I have a low tire light on and all the tires have 60 psi in them. I try to keep in mind it’s a cheap knock off of the more advanced and very expensive sprinter but some things are just completely over looked by Dodge. The clip board on the dash looks likes a good idea but with seat height and position of the clip board it’s not real practical and hard to reach. I like the way it drives, it feels very stable under you. It brakes very well, turns tight and for a 3500 it rides empty very well. I like the styling inside and out. It was the look of the van on the outside that got me to go look at one. The side windows seem small but do to the ride height in the seat I am at the top of the window. When I lower the seat that may get better. The power seems very good for a 6 cylinder and shifts very smooth. I’d like a turbo option for it though I think that would make the perfect engine for it. I’m getting a little over 17 driving it mixed highway and city. My hope is when it goes over the road that my highway mpg will go into the high 18 area. Grab handles on the windshield pillar would be awesome. The grab handle on the roof that’s almost 7’ off the ground and at the rear of the door opening is a waste of the time it takes to install them and very awkward to use. One on the window pillar would be much better. I’m having issues with the gas pedal as well. When I step on the gas from a stand still it seems like the pedal goes down ½” inch before I get throttle. When the throttle finally comes on it’s like a rocket of the line. I have to take it in to have the low air light looked at I’m going to see if that can be adjusted somehow. I hope to be on the road with it in the next 2 weeks so I will check in as I go. I searched everywhere for someone running one of these over the road and found nothing. Maybe I can be some helpful input for a first time buyer. Would I recommend this van? Yes I would at this time. If Dodge listens to the buyers it will get better.
 

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2014 Promaster 3500 ext. I bought this too lease on with FedEx custom critical. I’m looking at putting around 75 to 80 thousand a year on it. I bought the extended because it allows a 4’ bunk area and still have the 8’6” that FedEx wants on the floor. The stand up room in it is another factor on my decision. The price was right on to that of a Chevy Express. There are some things that I can see bugging me on it however. They missed the comfy seat thing by a mile. I'm 56 years old 6'1" owned allot of vehicles in my day. This is absolutely the worst seat I have ever had in a vehicle and I had a Datsun B-210. The position of it is wrong, the "infinite adjustability they claim is a lie" The wife road in it for 15 miles and said no way would she ride in it much more than that unless she really had to. The seat back does not move from the seat bottom. The angle from the bottom to the back is set at the factory no recline. My lower legs are almost vertical in order to keep some bend in my arms at 10 and 2. If I drop the seat in the front to remove pressure from under my legs and bend my arms the back then becomes almost completely vertical and push’s me constantly forward. Dodge spent absolutely 0 time on the seat. Place your legs vertical with your feet flat on the floor and try to push the gas pedal. Then think about that for 300 miles a day. The seats are very cheap off the shelf crap. I like allot of things about the van but the seats are horrid and the only thing I really hate about it. There are the cup holders they brag about. They’re on the floor! The seat puts you in the roof, your coffee is on the floor now get on the highway with traffic and try to get your coffee. It’s eyes off the road lean forward so you can reach the floor from the sky high seat. It’s almost easier to just hold the coffee until it’s gone. The cup holder on the passenger side is easier to reach however. You can’t put a very tall cup in it because it leans towards the back of the van it doesn’t have a flat bottom in it. Small or medium to go cup is about it. When you step on the gas the cup falls out onto the floor. Bringing that cup holder out away from the dash 3/8’ and make the bottom flat now it works! Raise the cup holder up off the floor. The center cup holders raised up with a compartment under them that opens then one could put a clip board or paper work in there it would be a better use of the space. Look at the express it works. At less than 200 miles a brake started to squeal, now with 600 on it I have at least two squealing. I have a low tire light on and all the tires have 60 psi in them. I try to keep in mind it’s a cheap knock off of the more advanced and very expensive sprinter but some things are just completely over looked by Dodge. The clip board on the dash looks likes a good idea but with seat height and position of the clip board it’s not real practical and hard to reach. I like the way it drives, it feels very stable under you. It brakes very well, turns tight and for a 3500 it rides empty very well. I like the styling inside and out. It was the look of the van on the outside that got me to go look at one. The side windows seem small but do to the ride height in the seat I am at the top of the window. When I lower the seat that may get better. The power seems very good for a 6 cylinder and shifts very smooth. I’d like a turbo option for it though I think that would make the perfect engine for it. I’m getting a little over 17 driving it mixed highway and city. My hope is when it goes over the road that my highway mpg will go into the high 18 area. Grab handles on the windshield pillar would be awesome. The grab handle on the roof that’s almost 7’ off the ground and at the rear of the door opening is a waste of the time it takes to install them and very awkward to use. One on the window pillar would be much better. I’m having issues with the gas pedal as well. When I step on the gas from a stand still it seems like the pedal goes down ½” inch before I get throttle. When the throttle finally comes on it’s like a rocket of the line. I have to take it in to have the low air light looked at I’m going to see if that can be adjusted somehow. I hope to be on the road with it in the next 2 weeks so I will check in as I go. I searched everywhere for someone running one of these over the road and found nothing. Maybe I can be some helpful input for a first time buyer. Would I recommend this van? Yes I would at this time. If Dodge listens to the buyers it will get better.
repost in white so I can read it

Good post, thanks for your thoughts.
I guess this vehicle will be like most of my past ones, where I remove the seats and modify them. Usually because they were designed by short Japanese engineers who think just extending the seat track is enough for those tall stupid Americans.
 

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Inflating tires to 65 psi should clear the warning. Had the same issue on our van. Sticker says 62 psi i believe but sensors are set for 65.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
keiserouze, I will give that a try on the tires. Once it hits the road I will probably go up 68-70lbs
 

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repost in white so I can read it

Good post, thanks for your thoughts.
I guess this vehicle will be like most of my past ones, where I remove the seats and modify them. Usually because they were designed by short Japanese engineers who think just extending the seat track is enough for those tall stupid Americans.
Thanks for reposting in white! That black on grey is impossible to read and I can't figure out how to change it on my Mac.

The uncomfortable seats pro3500 mentioned take a few tries to get right but they are indeed infinitely adjustable. Also the 10 and 2 hand position on the wheel doesn't work as well as 8 and 4.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sorry about the black font. I didn’t realize it until it posted then I didn’t know how to change it. 30ounce: The only way I see the seats having infinite amount of possible positions would be to literally move the seat in micro movements even then you would run out. I have more option for positions on my F250 than this.
 

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Thanks for reposting in white! That black on grey is impossible to read and I can't figure out how to change it on my Mac.
I use a Mac.

When I look at your posts, I'm seeing code like this.....

(FONT=Times New Roman)
(SIZE=3)
(COLOR=#000000)
(/COLOR)
(/SIZE)
(/FONT)

This indicates you've clicked some buttons in the dialog box.

When you see this in the dialog box, delete these items.
 

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We went to look at the one they ordered for us and because we did not blindly sign to a sub-prime rate and wanted to shop around, the guy got pissy and started to go into guilt/hard sell mode, and when that did not work, he pissed, moaned and complained how he already spent $30,000 to buy it and to get it there.
UM, $30,000 ya say?
When you take into account how people exaggerate on how much something cost them, I'll bet it was more like $25,000.
So, is $13,000 a lot of profit or WHAT?!?!
 

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We went to look at the one they ordered
I was not finished

I know what the local dodge dealer really pays for a $38500 Promaster 3500 with over $2000 in extra crap added on.
$30,000, perhaps even as low as $25,000.

We went to look at the 3500 they ordered for us and because we did not blindly sign to a sub-prime rate (our bank said they could not go as low as a dealership but their rate was less than 1/3 of what dodge offered) and we said we wanted to shop around for a better rate, the guy got prissy and started to go into guilt/hard sell mode, and when that did not work, he pissed, moaned and complained how he already spent $30,000 because he had to buy it to get it there and how every day it sits there until it's sold it's costing him money.
UM, $30,000 ya say?
When you take into account how people exaggerate on how much something cost them, I'll bet it was more like $25,000.
So $35,350 base price and an a total price of $38500 with the $900 destination charge and over $2000 in extras
So, is $13,500 a lot of profit for one truck OR WHAT?!?!
Just wait until I download the video tape of the conversation and post it on youtube!

I don't think he will get fired as the wife thinks he was the OWNER of the dealership!
 

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I was not finished

I know what the local dodge dealer really pays for a $38500 Promaster 3500 with over $2000 in extra crap added on.
$30,000, perhaps even as low as $25,000.

We went to look at the 3500 they ordered for us and because we did not blindly sign to a sub-prime rate (our bank said they could not go as low as a dealership but their rate was less than 1/3 of what dodge offered) and we said we wanted to shop around for a better rate, the guy got prissy and started to go into guilt/hard sell mode, and when that did not work, he pissed, moaned and complained how he already spent $30,000 because he had to buy it to get it there and how every day it sits there until it's sold it's costing him money.
UM, $30,000 ya say?
When you take into account how people exaggerate on how much something cost them, I'll bet it was more like $25,000.
So $35,350 base price and an a total price of $38500 with the $900 destination charge and over $2000 in extras
So, is $13,500 a lot of profit for one truck OR WHAT?!?!
Just wait until I download the video tape of the conversation and post it on youtube!

I don't think he will get fired as the wife thinks he was the OWNER of the dealership!
Your Angry!
Whats the overhead for owning a Dealership?
 

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P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }
Your Angry!
Whats the overhead for owning a Dealership?
Angry?
More like disappointed.
I just don't like when they refuse to give you rate info over the phone telling you that you have to come in, and then try high pressure tactics to get you to sign once you get in the door and being evasive about the rate!

Had he been willing to give us the info we asked for on the phone last week we would be driving it by now.

And as far as their overhead cost, I don't care.
It's my overhead costs I'm concerned for.
I will not begrudge someone a profit margin, but be honest and don't play games.


We went to our bank, and they told us that “they can't touch the super low rates offered by a dealership because dealers make profit on the sale price as well as the loan, so the rates can be much lower” then the dealership offers us a rate three times what the bank offered with more than 20% down!


The last new car loan we had was just under 2% and these guys want more than 5 times that rate even with a huge down payment?
 

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P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }
Angry?
More like disappointed.
I just don't like when they refuse to give you rate info over the phone telling you that you have to come in, and then try high pressure tactics to get you to sign once you get in the door and being evasive about the rate!

Had he been willing to give us the info we asked for on the phone last week we would be driving it by now.

And as far as their overhead cost, I don't care.
It's my overhead costs I'm concerned for.
I will not begrudge someone a profit margin, but be honest and don't play games.


We went to our bank, and they told us that “they can't touch the super low rates offered by a dealership because dealers make profit on the sale price as well as the loan, so the rates can be much lower” then the dealership offers us a rate three times what the bank offered with more than 20% down!


The last new car loan we had was just under 2% and these guys want more than 5 times that rate even with a huge down payment?
You ordered a ProMaster and when it showed up you backed out?
Then recorded him being disappointed (Angry).
Something should still be worked out ,name your interest rate,show him
your last purchase of the car.
 

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archangel, I'm will you. I hate the BS dealers pull. So with that in mind, my methods of avoiding the BS are...

I contact one or two dealers via their web sites. I get quotes fully worked up, all while refusing their offers to come in and negotiate. I flat out told the last dealer I bought from, I'm not coming in until I get the price I want via email.

Dealers that ignore me, don't get my business.

Then when I walk in, I already have my loan pre-approved from my credit union, which puts me in a position of power and knowledge. Because only when anyone from a banking institution actually runs your credit against your loan amount and vehicle can you get the TRUE interest rate you're entitled to. Most know credit unions offer low rates too!

Well guess what happens, with every new purchase in recent years. The dealer finance guy beats or matches the credit union. On my wifes Ford, the dealer finance guy bullshit me, and said he could not touch my rate. I didn't flinch and told him fine, I take the car home another day, when the credit union loan check is cut. Well the BSs finance guy picked up the phone and called two banks and found someone to match it and we walked out the door 30 minutes later with the car.
 

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You ordered a ProMaster and when it showed up you backed out?
No, we did not back out.
We still want the van.
We kept asking for the rate and they were evasive all along and it's not until the van got there and the pile of paperwork was in front of us ready to sign did they reveal it.:mad:

Then recorded him being disappointed (Angry).
:eek:Cell phones are everywhere and they do record video and audio, so when you are out in the open public areas, you should always assume someone is recording everything.

Something should still be worked out ,name your interest rate,show him
your last purchase of the car.
Done, done and done.
I think they were willing to negotiate a 1/2 way decent price and was hoping to get more of the gravy back on the interest rate, so when sprang the rate on us and we did not jump at the financing, he got upset.
 

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I always do what Dwight said. I would never trust a dealer to be honest and open with their profit margins or kickbacks from finance deals. I know what a dealer pays for the vehicles before I ever step foot in a dealership. All that info is available on the web. I paid cash for the PM and got a great deal. My van was damaged from a windstorm and I was able to negotiate a substantial discount. The repairs are being done this week.
 

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I always do what Dwight said. I would never trust a dealer to be honest and open with their profit margins or kickbacks from finance deals. I know what a dealer pays for the vehicles before I ever step foot in a dealership. All that info is available on the web. I paid cash for the PM and got a great deal. My van was damaged from a windstorm and I was able to negotiate a substantial discount. The repairs are being done this week.
If so, what level of ProMaster did you buy, what did it cost the dealership to buy it, and how much did they sell it to you?

I have never been able to find out what the dealer pays from any on-line source.
Oh, I find a number that they say is the number, but those numbers leave way too little profit for the salesman much less the dealership.

I do know that if the salesman becomes genuinely upset, you are starting to cut into that margin deeper than he wants.
If he says there is nothing left for any profit, the margin is so low, he is willing to bet the next buyer will pay more for it so he can get more profit in the deal.

He went to a price he should have acted like he could not go there and that management would say no, but he did not.
That is when you know they plan on regaining it from the loan interest rate.
Then when you say you will get financing elsewhere, they should be ok with that if the price is really ok.
If the price were dropped so low that it relied on the interest rate for lifting the profit to gravy level, you will hear it in his voice when he says as long as it is sold, I'm ok with that, but his tone of voice and the look in his eyes says he is NOT OK WITH THAT.
 

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What dealers make

If you don't trust what edmunds or any of the other website info says then I don't know what to tell you. Good luck to you.
30 Ounce,
I too used to believe what you do regarding Edmunds etc., but the numbers just don't work.

Dealerships cost millions of dollars to build. And owners of dealerships have multi-million dollar homes and yachts. Some, multiple ones. the math just does not add up. Dealerships cannot be making the low amounts we are being told.
To support the millions described just takes more than the low spread between holdback and invoice. Take an example of $30,000 and a 3% holdback, $900 and realize most dealerships sell less that 100 cars a month, that would only be $90,000 a month. the light and gas bills of some of these dealerships hit $40,000 a month. Add also to that the cost to keep a multiple million dollar inventory. Of course there is the service department, and the used sales, but still, the math in my mind cannot support the dealership lifestyle.

There is a former dealer on youtube that discuss's this as well.

It is obvious there is much more profit in car sales than reported through edmunds, true car, etc.
 
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