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Discussion Starter #22
"Butyl tape works well for some number of years but beyond that it's survival is questionable."
Are you suggesting a limited lifespan for our Motion windows installed with the supplied butyl tape?
I should have been more clear. We do supply wide butyl tape to use between the vent flange and our adapter. That interface is above any pooling water on the roof (another benefit to our adapter) and a single layer does work well there. (as long as the screws are not over-tightened) We do also recommend a membrane sealant/tape over flange, down the sides of our adapter and onto the roof. 2" wide 4412N would be great for that. One of our up-fitters recently told us that they bond the adapter to roof and flange to the adapter in one step. That's a real time saver and there is some benefit because a clamp in each corner holds it all together very well while the adhesive cures. Then they drop in the vent and are done!

We remounted the CRL windows in our Sprinter with VHB after they shifted down and started leaking in the upper corners. (original install was done by the previous owner) Those come with a compressed D seal. I am confident that Motion knows what they are doing so I wouldn't worry. There are a wide variety of butyl tapes out there. Manus brand is great (really sticky) and we use that on the Heki skylights. Butyl tapes are designed to stay soft so they don't resist shear loads very well. So a window that relies only on that to hold it up is at risk of shifting if the hole is too big. Windows should be supported along the bottom so that doesn't happen. CRL has started including plastic shims for that purpose. I made some ABS shims for that purpose when I remounted our CRLs.

All the best,
Hein



VHB is the grey stuff between window frame and body.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I have tried in the past to find out if VHB is affected by UV exposure. Have you found info about if it's okay when exposed to UV?
Yes, 4611 is UV resistant.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-VHB-Tape-4611/?N=5002385+3293242238&rt=rud
Proven Reliability from 3M™ VHB™ Tapes
3M™ VHB™ Tape offers a durable bond in a way that mechanical fasteners can't. This tape enhances the appearance of finished goods by eliminating rivets and screws while providing immediate handling strength. In most cases, fastening with 3M™ VHB™ Tape is a quicker process than drilling, fastening, or using liquid adhesive. Our versatile line of tapes can be used indoors or outdoors in a variety of applications, including window, door and sign assembly, electronics, construction and countless other industrial applications. Chemically resistant as well as UV and temperature stable, 3M™ VHB™ Tape can withstand the heat of Dubai to the cold of Canada. The unique acrylic chemistry is extremely durable and resistant to change over time, making this a long-lasting and powerful tape you can trust.
 

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Thank you for your reply. The value of a product is definitely subjective. We sell a lot of adapters (and other products) to professional van up-fitters. Time is money for those folks and they can't afford to have vans come back with leaky roofs. Our design appears to hold up very well over thousands of miles of bumpy roads in all climates. Butyl tape works well for some number of years but beyond that it's survival is questionable. We have definitely saved the day for many folks who have developed leaks after some time due to substandard installation practices not using our adapters. For them the price is money well spent.

The vent adapters are CNC machined on our Multicam 5000 series router. The machine and related equipment cost $100,000. It takes about 15 minutes to surface mill the face that mates to the top of the van and profile the inside and outside perimeter. CNC machining rates vary somewhat but are generally in the $300/hour range. Our CNC operator, Sean, is a well paid employee with full benefits. And we are proud to say that all of our products are MADE IN THE USA. We are a growing company and are investing much of our profits into more R&D and product development. We hired a full time CAD intern last summer who had done CAD work for a High School Robotics team we sponsored. She is graduating this year and headed to a top engineering school. We hope to have another intern this summer and are looking for a full time CAD tech. We have active licenses for the full suite of PTC Creo which is perhaps the most powerful CAE/CAM tool available. I have been on Pro/E since the early days. I was an independent CAE implementation consultant for many years. Our clients included CAT, Deere, Boeing, Learjet, Cessna, Motorolla and other fortune 500 companies. Before that I designed production equipment for automotive assembly plants and was design engineer at CASE. I'm a pretty good teacher. (My dad is retired college professor in Chemistry and Computer science.)

In the past, the 14x14 hole left us with a big piece of scrap so we use those to make the speaker adapters. So in a sense we (and you) get that material for free. The material is high grade plastic sheet with the necessary UV and temperature resistance to survive long term on the roof of a van. The application, manufacturing process and design are patent pending.

We also make adapters for side windows that are flat and need to fit the outside curvature of the van walls. The Dometic S4 windows are an example of that application. Below is a photo of one that went on the side of a Sprinter van. We can do these for the ProMaster as well. This project is by one of our highly talented professional upfitters. Vanbase.us

All the best,
Hein
DIYvan

Thank you for taking the time for the detailed reply. I had no idea the equipment used to make the vent adapters was so expensive! Neat to know the speaker rings come from the waste of the vent process.

You have a really cool business thank you for sharing some information about it!
 

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Discussion Starter #26
We removed the OEM floor mat from our Transit and put it in our Promaster. That was probably sacrilege but made it just a little bit more quiet. It's about time I modeled up a proper Okoume plywood floor and cut that on the CNC. Underneath it will get a layer of 1" Thinsulate(TM) AU4002-5 with some strategically placed plastic lumber furring strips for support. First step is to digest the enormous OEM CAD file and pick out the geometry that I need define the perimeter.



Feels great to finally sink my teeth into the PM. Also ordered a floor mat from Weathertech for the cab. It's due to arrive tomorrow so I'll snap some photos of it. Prototype roof tower adapters designed so we can use our patented Sprinter 8020 towers have been released to our manufacturing partner. The excitement begins.

All the best,
Hein
 

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We removed the OEM floor mat from our Transit and put it in our Promaster. That was probably sacrilege but made it just a little bit more quiet. It's about time I modeled up a proper Okoume plywood floor and cut that on the CNC. Underneath it will get a layer of 1" Thinsulate(TM) AU4002-5 with some strategically placed plastic lumber furring strips for support. First step is to digest the enormous OEM CAD file and pick out the geometry that I need define the perimeter.



Feels great to finally sink my teeth into the PM. Also ordered a floor mat from Weathertech for the cab. It's due to arrive tomorrow so I'll snap some photos of it. Prototype roof tower adapters designed so we can use our patented Sprinter 8020 towers have been released to our manufacturing partner. The excitement begins.

All the best,
Hein
Planning on making a MLV with foam decoupler floor mat that covers the area of the Weathertech , under the seats, and down the middle.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Planning on making a MLV with foam decoupler floor mat that covers the area of the Weathertech , under the seats, and down the middle.
The OEM mat is fairly thick squishy foam so should act as a decoupler. You might consider some Thinsulate(TM) SM400L around and on top of the battery, under the seats and other areas of the cab behind trim and such.

I’d like to see a photo of the transit floor in the PM. No better way to compare the floor area.
I'll take a photo before I remove it.

All the best,
Hein
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Im ready to buy those 8020 PM roof tower adapters, please take my money.
Very much appreciate your enthusiasm but they won't be released until thoroughly tested for fit and function. I'll do my best.

All the best,
Hein
 

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The OEM mat is fairly thick squishy foam so should act as a decoupler. You might consider some Thinsulate(TM) SM400L around and on top of the battery, under the seats and other areas of the cab behind trim and such.



I'll take a photo before I remove it.

All the best,
Hein
The MLV I purchased already has a foam layer attached so I will probably keep it on there. Thank you for the insulation suggestions.

Although I do wonder about the efficacy of using it like that. I've read several times that sound will simply travel around any gaps in the MLV. using it as a full sized floor mat might not be the best use. But it will do better in the van than rolled up in the living room.
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Although I do wonder about the efficacy of using it like that. I've read several times that sound will simply travel around any gaps in the MLV.
You are correct that noise is sneaky. We use large and small pieces of Thinsulate in any passages and gaps where it might sneak through. It's a bit like whack-a-mole. Try to identify the source and where it is entering the interior, then place or loosely stuff some Thinsulate to block it. We tell folks to keep a loose piece handy while driving so they can move it around until they hear favorable results. Then install it permanently behind the panel in that location.

Here is a photo of the Ford 130 mat in the Promaster 136. Piece of pipe is 20 ft long. -correction: 10 ft long.



All the best,
Hein
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Oops, yea, it was 10' of 1.75" muffler pipe. Late night post after a long day. I was out running around for a 20' piece to mount the cell booster at our warehouse but all could find was 10'. Which would have hung way out the back. Now you know why I always make drawings for my CAD models. Good check to dimension all new parts.


All the best,
Hein
 

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Discussion Starter #38



Hope that helps. We provide these with the outside adapter and produce rings for the inside to form a plenum down to the ceiling panel where the inside closure is mounted.


All the best,
Hein
DIYvan
 

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Hein,

A few questions about the Lemans fans if you have time. I did look at the manufacturers site but it didn't have squat for information. I also searched the Transit and Sprinter forums but didn't have any success there either.

Do you have any interior pictures of the fan installed? Preferably without the interior of the van finished.

I am not clear on the controls, are there any controls that come with the unit, even just on/off?

Have you actually measured the amps or watts when running?

Thanks in advance.
 
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