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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,
This is an interesting story from James at FitRV:
https://www.thefitrv.com/blog/lance-update-omg-its-happening/


I've noticed the same thing on the temperature gauge on my PM -- it goes up to just about exactly half way and just stays there no matter what. I had thought that this was the mark of a really well designed engine cooling system, but maybe not?


Maybe its worth keeping the ODB2 gadget hooked up all the time and showing the engine temperature on the phone?



Gary
 

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I use a pad computer on the dash for several things, navigation, Gas Buddy, and for ODB2 as well. ODB Fusion on the iPad works well and you can set up gauges for standard and custom settings. I have the diesel so I have one PID for DEF level (called reagent level), MPG, speed, temperatures etc. I can go to it anytime I am not navigating with the pad. In order to have a GPS locator in the pad I just bought a Nexus7 Google pad refurbished off Amazon for $59. Most apps are available in Apple and Android. I will have to get another app for the ODB2 I guess as Fusion doesn’t seem to be on Google Play store. The pad is a great choice compared to the one use GPS unit I used to have.
 

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Most automotive gauges today are basically idiot lights. People would complain that the gauges were moving and bring their cars in for service. "My oil pressure gauge drops down when my engine idles" so they are now fudged to sit at the same reading when warm and they are supposed to change only under catastrophic conditions.
There are lots of articles describing the "new" functionality of modern gauges
 

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The takeaway from that story is that if you were a normal person without a big social media following theres no chance FCA would fix that engine. The thermostat not being covered under the powertrain warranty is just ridiculous.

Looking at those pictures sure is enough to make you want to run out and get a proper temp monitor.
 

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The takeaway from that story is that if you were a normal person without a big social media following theres no chance FCA would fix that engine. The thermostat not being covered under the powertrain warranty is just ridiculous.

Looking at those pictures sure is enough to make you want to run out and get a proper temp monitor.
Plus they have an aftermarket second alternator which by their admission and blog post, tore the coolant hose a few times. The FitRV couple seem like nice people so nothing against them at all, but Showtime is right; if they were anyone else, they'd be screwed. I'd also be willing to bet that if FCA didn't fix it, Winnebago probably would have as the FitRV gives them so much free publicity. Makes me wonder if they get commission checks ;)
 

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When I owned a Rialta, with VW Eurovan V6 engine, it became know that the temperature gauge would read the same, no matter what driving stage you were doing. If climbing a hill the gauge would never move, even though your temp was close to 210*F. Most owners used a scan gauge to monitor engine temperature and transmission temperature.

MLogan
2017 Trend
Smyrna, TN
 

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First, not sure if FitRV meant their gauge stuck in one position always or only during normal operation.

Second, my understanding is that this is actually a good thing if the engine is always at the same temperature (assuming it is 219F for Pentastar 3.6 with +/- 10F drift in extreme conditions).

Modern engines are built from various alloys, with extreamly low tolerances, and must fit tight fuel consumption regulations.
It's obvious engineers chose a single "optimal" temperature and it's actually a technological miracle our engines are able to constantly maintain that temperature.

After switching from older GM's Vortec engines (where the operating temperature is lower, more fluid and depends on displacement) to PM's Pentastar, I've noticed the change in behavior and started monitoring the temperature using OBD for some time and in various conditions.
After collecting my own statistics, online research and a few consulations with experienced auto technicians, I've concluded that the temperature gauge always shows the correct temperature despite ilussion of being stuck.
 

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Well, I connected my OBD2 to my radio today and I can say, without a doubt, that the gauge on the dash of the van should be thought of as on/off. Once it moved to the mid position, it stayed there. Climbing a very steep hill, the water temp went up to 213. It eventually went down around 190 and finished around 203 when we parked. That needle on the dash never moved. I didn't notice at what temp it went from off, to on when we started.
 

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^ That is unsurprising nowadays. Practically every modern car or truck has a temperature gauge with a big dead-band in which the gauge needle stays put in the middle over a fairly wide actual range of coolant temperature that the engine manufacturer considers to be normal. (On a VW, it always displays 90 C through the actual temperature range of approx 75 through 100 C which is considered normal.)


It's to stop people from complaining "my car is running hot" when doing exactly what you just did ... ! ! !


Scangauge or similar will reveal what is really going on; don't be surprised if the actual temperature fluctuates depending on engine load and road speed (i.e. cooling air flow); it's normal!
 

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First, not sure if FitRV meant their gauge stuck in one position always or only during normal operation.

Second, my understanding is that this is actually a good thing if the engine is always at the same temperature (assuming it is 219F for Pentastar 3.6 with +/- 10F drift in extreme conditions).

Modern engines are built from various alloys, with extreamly low tolerances, and must fit tight fuel consumption regulations.
It's obvious engineers chose a single "optimal" temperature and it's actually a technological miracle our engines are able to constantly maintain that temperature.

After switching from older GM's Vortec engines (where the operating temperature is lower, more fluid and depends on displacement) to PM's Pentastar, I've noticed the change in behavior and started monitoring the temperature using OBD for some time and in various conditions.
After collecting my own statistics, online research and a few consulations with experienced auto technicians, I've concluded that the temperature gauge always shows the correct temperature despite ilussion of being stuck.
The temperature gauge on the gas Promaster rises from '0' when the engine is cold to the middle of the gauge or normal as the engine warms up.

Then as long as the temperature stays in some range that FCA deems 'acceptable' the needle on the gauge doesn't move even though the actual temperature as read from the OBD port with a ScanGauge II varies from 196 - 220+ depending on driving conditions.

And the temperature swings fairly quickly and quite often perhaps because the thermostat is opening and closing and or the cooling fans are cycling on and off.

Presumably the gauge isn't a mechanical temperature gauge but is being controlled by the ECU and is displaying an 'averaged' value for the temperature.

I assume that if there is a cooling problem and the engine temperature rises to a harmful level the gauge will move above normal but I haven't had a cooling problem and have never seen the gauge move above normal.

I prefer to display the actual temperature on the ScanGauge and monitor the trend before a problem gets out of hand.
 

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Owners Manual,
4. Temperature Gauge
• The temperature gauge shows engine coolant temperature. Any reading within the normal range indicates that the engine cooling system is operating satisfactorily.
• The gauge pointer will likely indicate a higher temperature when driving in hot weather or up mountain grades. It should not be allowed to exceed the upper limits of the normal operating range.

"likely" maybe it will maybe it won't

Engine Temperature Warning Light
This light warns of an overheated engine condition. If the engine coolant temperature is too high, this indicator will illuminate and a single chime will sound. If the temperature reaches the upper limit, a continuous chime will be sound for 4 minutes or until the engine is allowed to cool whichever comes first.
 

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With OBD Fusion you can log the temp or any reading and then play it back on a map. You will know when and where the events happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi,


I decided to add this ODB2 gauge ...
[ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JZJ1LLD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]


Its a nice compact gadget that does not take up much dashboard space, but is still easy to read.
It displays up to 7 pages of gauges with 4, 6, or 8 gauges per page.
Any of the OBD2 parameters can be displayed as a gauge.
Also allows low and high alarms to be set for each gauge.
70 page user manul with quite a bit of detail.
I like it so far.



So, took a drive after putting it in and watched the dashboard gauge vs the OBD2 gauge...


- At about 110F, the dash gauge lifts of the cold peg
- At about 160F, the dash gauge gets up to the half way mark and stays there.
- As I drove, actual temperature ranged from about 190F up to 225F with no change in the dash gauge.


I guess if the computer saw what it considered a serious over temperature, it would show a warning on the info screen and (maybe) push the needle up on the dash gauge. I can see the logic of not showing temperature variations that don't have any adverse consequences, but I like seeing what the actual temperature is.


I've set up alarms for coolant temps over 230F and also for when the fuel tank goes below 6 gallons.





Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Gary,
Do you know if it does oil temp and psi?
or trans temp?

Hi Phil,
Unfortunately it does not do any of those.


I went throught he full list that comes up on the gauge, and none of those there.
Also went through the full list of parameters in the user manual, and none of them there.



This is the link to the user manual -- it has a full list of supported parameters:
https://ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/support/Ultra_Gauge_EM_Plus_3_4_14.pdf


But, any given car may choose not to support all of the parms listed in user manual. It does seem like the PM supports most of them.


This is the full list of OBD2 parameters on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs
and, none of the ones you asked about are listed.



I remember that when I was having trouble with my ABS I found that the ABS parameters are not in the standard OBD2 set, but that there is another set (or several sets?) that do report ABS parameters. So, maybe, there is an alternate to OBD2 that does oil pressure and trans temp? That would be nice.
Please let us know if you find something that gives oil pres etc.



Gary
 
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