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M

Mlukens

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Nations 280XP High AMP Secondary Alternator Kit for Promaster

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M
Mlukens
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Estes Park, Colorado
$0 USD
I am pulling off the secondary alternator kit off of my Promaster. The van came with it and I have not hooked it up. It is for an AGM battery setup but could be used with Lithium Batteries with additional regulator.
Dodge Promaster Dual Alternator Kit with 280XP High Amp Alternator for 3.6L Gas Engines (nationsstarteralternator.com)

Make me an offer if interested.
 
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nebulight

nebulight

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Joined Feb 10, 2016
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#2 · 4 mo ago
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Do you know how many miles this has on it? Is it the newer kit that addresses the hose clipping issue? i'm interested.
 
FORMER caretaker of the Backroader 159" wb - Currently building (waiting on van delivery) 4 seater bunk bed layout. Build Thread
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M

Mlukens

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Joined Feb 3, 2020
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Discussion Starter · #3 · 4 mo ago
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The van has 24K miles on it. The kit is from 2016. It has the metal tube that needs to be put in place to reroute the radiator hose around.
 
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Wankel7

Wankel7

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#4 · 4 mo ago
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Do you know which regulator this has?

I am curious why not just use it? Ground clearance issues?
 
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nebulight

nebulight

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#5 · 4 mo ago
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PM sent.
 
FORMER caretaker of the Backroader 159" wb - Currently building (waiting on van delivery) 4 seater bunk bed layout. Build Thread
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Ken Allan

Ken Allan

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2018-2500-159" aka Sun2 -NE Ohio
Joined Sep 20, 2020
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357 Posts
#6 · 4 mo ago
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FYI... This alternator needs to have a Balmar type regulator and at least one AGM battery in parallel with any lithiums. The AGM acts as a buffer for the high amperage this unit is capable of. And a safety if the lithiums are not turned on. You also have to make sure your lithiums can take the high charge current. With adjustments to Balmar I can get current down to about 100A. My two 206Ah lithium's can only take 50A charge (each) so It works for me. A large battery bank could make good use of this system.
 
NE Ohio
2018 ProMaster 2500, 159", Hymer Sunlight2 Motorhome
aka... the Sun2
7600# Ready to roll (food, water, gear & 2 people)
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Wankel7

Wankel7

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#7 · 4 mo ago
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Ken Allan said:
FYI... This alternator needs to have a Balmar type regulator and at least one AGM battery in parallel with any lithiums. The AGM acts as a buffer for the high amperage this unit is capable of. And a safety if the lithiums are not turned on. You also have to make sure your lithiums can take the high charge current. With adjustments to Balmar I can get current down to about 100A. My two 206Ah lithium's can only take 50A charge (each) so It works for me. A large battery bank could make good use of this system.
Click to expand...
Interesting - is the Balmar a voltage adjustment or are you actually altering the current? I guess the question is constant current verse constant voltage?

It seems like you have a big DC to DC that you could reduce the current on it could be a great combo. Sterling just put out some new ones and their biggest is a 120A and a 200A. With the display you can reduce them 65 and 85 percent output.
 
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nebulight

nebulight

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Joined Feb 10, 2016
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#8 · 4 mo ago
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Ken Allan said:
FYI... This alternator needs to have a Balmar type regulator and at least one AGM battery in parallel with any lithiums. The AGM acts as a buffer for the high amperage this unit is capable of. And a safety if the lithiums are not turned on. You also have to make sure your lithiums can take the high charge current. With adjustments to Balmar I can get current down to about 100A. My two 206Ah lithium's can only take 50A charge (each) so It works for me. A large battery bank could make good use of this system.
Click to expand...
This isn't true.

If you have a battery with an external BMS (or better yet one that that can control the regulator like a REC-BMS) matched with a Wakespeed regulator there is no need for a dump load battery. Wakespeed regulator will get the charge request from the BMS. If the BMS wants 10 amps it'll give it 10 amps. If the BMS wants 200 amps, it'll give it 200 amps.
 
FORMER caretaker of the Backroader 159" wb - Currently building (waiting on van delivery) 4 seater bunk bed layout. Build Thread
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Ken Allan

Ken Allan

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2018-2500-159" aka Sun2 -NE Ohio
Joined Sep 20, 2020
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357 Posts
#9 · 4 mo ago
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The Balmar works like a battery charger in that it will control voltage (bulk, absorption) for set periods of time. You can only reduce the current output by two methods. Belt load settings (controls the field coil) And a method called small engine mode which just halves the output current...at the expense of negating the alternator high temp control.

The original Ks2 brand batteries were intended to take a massive charge current...and fast! I think that's really what the Nations system was intended for. It would be good if a person had a large battery bank.

I'm not saying this is an ideal setup I have. Van came with this gear and I made it work for me when I replaced the Ks2's. If I was building my own system I might do something different.

I still think you need the AGM with the --Balmar-- regulator. I am not familiar with how much current any DC to DC unit can take directly from an alternator. I am not familiar with the Sterling so maybe that is a better option?

Wakespeed... Interesting. I've not heard of a regulator that works in conjunction with a BMS. I might look into that. Thx.
 
NE Ohio
2018 ProMaster 2500, 159", Hymer Sunlight2 Motorhome
aka... the Sun2
7600# Ready to roll (food, water, gear & 2 people)
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nebulight

nebulight

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Joined Feb 10, 2016
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856 Posts
#10 · 4 mo ago
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Ken Allan said:
The Balmar works like a battery charger in that it will control voltage (bulk, absorption) for set periods of time. You can only reduce the current output by two methods. Belt load settings (controls the field coil) And a method called small engine mode which just halves the output current...at the expense of negating the alternator high temp control.

The original Ks2 brand batteries were intended to take a massive charge current...and fast! I think that's really what the Nations system was intended for. It would be good if a person had a large battery bank.

I'm not saying this is an ideal setup I have. Van came with this gear and I made it work for me when I replaced the Ks2's. If I was building my own system I might do something different.

I still think you need the AGM with the --Balmar-- regulator. I am not familiar with how much current any DC to DC unit can take directly from an alternator. I am not familiar with the Sterling so maybe that is a better option?

Wakespeed... Interesting. I've not heard of a regulator that works in conjunction with a BMS. I might look into that. Thx.
Click to expand...
Correct. Balmar's are kind of considered "dumb" regulators since all they do is look at voltage of the battery and maybe the temperature of the battery. Newer smarter regulators also can install a current shunt to know about the battery current as well. This way the regulator knows how much current is going in or out of the battery and can limit accordingly. If you have a system with 200ah and the max charge current is 100 amps, while driving at night the regulator will tell the alternator it wants 100 amps. If you're driving during the day and you've got solar coming in at 30 amps, this regulator will know your max is 100 amps and derate the alternator to 70 amps to keep in line with what the battery wants. This can all happen without bms integration.

To make things better, when integrating with a lithium BMS (rec-bms for DIY batteries, victron lynx bms, Lithionics as a few examples), it can look at individual cell voltages and know when one cell might hit and over voltage limit and stop charging all together, or slow it down to give the BMS time to balance. It also doesn't require a shunt because the regulator will get that information directly from the BMS. The BMS will tell you how much current and voltage it wants at all times. As the battery gets closer to full, it can slow down the charge current as to not overcharge any individual cell.

As for your Ks2 batteries, sounds like you've got a roadtrek or hymer RV. Not sure what BMS they cobbled together, but my guess is it won't have any type of BMS integration as that requires CANbus. You could swap the BMS but as roadtrek did their batteries, each battery pack has it's own BMS so it'll get costly.
 
FORMER caretaker of the Backroader 159" wb - Currently building (waiting on van delivery) 4 seater bunk bed layout. Build Thread
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Ken Allan

Ken Allan

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2018-2500-159" aka Sun2 -NE Ohio
Joined Sep 20, 2020
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357 Posts
#11 · 4 mo ago
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nebulight said:
As for your Ks2 batteries...
Click to expand...
I took a look at Wakespeed WS500 and a very long video. I only have rudimentary knowledge of how the Can- bus communications work but I do understand the benefit of the bms and regulator talking to each other. My take on it all was that you are tied to two proprietary battery manufacturers or you need to have the expertise to build your own batteries and use a proprietary BMS's. For light-duty users like myself I'm not sure about the upscale cost. If I were building the very best, heavy use system and cost was not a consideration, I would be interested.

You mentioned that the Wakespeed could somehow be used without BMS integration... Like my "dumb" SOK batteries? I did not see (find) any info or examples of how to make that happen. I would be curious though to see if I could swap out my Balmar regulator.

Ks2... You are correct. We have a 2018 Hymer Sunlight2. Originally two Ks2 200Ah "H" rev. 200w solar. 2000W inverter/charger. XP280 Nations with Balmar. Purchased at two years old. The "ecotrek" system works great... until it doesn't. The complicated Ks2 batteries make it nye on impossible to diagnose problems. No CANbus. You have to resort to witchcraft to keep it running. I learned enough to rewire and install "standard" lithium batteries. I now have an easy to use and monitor system. Keeping the Balmar from overcharging was a challenge. It works OK now but I do have to be mindful of it's operation. It is not a "Set it and Forget it system.
 
NE Ohio
2018 ProMaster 2500, 159", Hymer Sunlight2 Motorhome
aka... the Sun2
7600# Ready to roll (food, water, gear & 2 people)
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