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An interesting link! No Promasters of course but Fiat, Citroen & Peugeot are all in the top five with Fiat in first place.
http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-top-10s/top-10-most-economical-large-vans/?image=0
Most economicalal big vans in Europe
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An interesting link! No Promasters of course but Fiat, Citroen & Peugeot are all in the top five with Fiat in first place.
http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-top-10s/top-10-most-economical-large-vans/?image=0
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73 Posts
Me too. I would trade in my Sprinter tomorrow for a ProMaster with the 2.3 liter diesel and manual transmission, if one was available. But unfortunately, besides us two, maybe only 10 other people in the US would buy one, so no point for the manufacturers to spend money for certifications. Just like you said, I don't need to go from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds. 25 is good enough. It is a work van, not a race car. Too bad that the majority of my fellow Americans want big gas guzzlers, and that is what the manufacturers are making. I predict that this will not change until the price of gas here in the US will get up to the levels that Europeans pay.
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533 Posts
Due to the towing I do the 3.0 diesel is the perfect amount of power and fuel economy for me. I have hoped for this van for years to come out and I cant be happier. I really wanted 20mpg while towing and I finally have it. I would love a full manual trans, only thing missing but the automated manual is wonderful! If I didnt tow the 2.3 diesel would be absolutely wonderful!
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974 Posts
This one kind of sticks in my craw. My whole life, people go on and on about European cars and the crazy mileage they get. The numbers are wrong.
The biggest factor is that they are using the Imperial gallon vs the US gallon. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe our gallon is .81 smaller. So, a US diesel PM that gets 27mpg in Kansas automatically gets 33.3mpg in London.
The next is the test cycle. First off, the US government just spot checks, the EPA ratings are actually just the manufacturers claims. But I have found they are mostly accurate. If the window sticker says 20 city 30 highway, you can expect it to be fairly close (with a few notable exceptions resulting in class action suits against Honda, Ford, and Kia).
In Europe, the testing procedure is very different, resulting in inflated numbers. Just now, I looked up the 2015 Mustang ecoboost fuel economy in Britain. There is ZERO difference between our version and the Brit version except right hand drive. Mileage? 26 city and 37 highway. For comparison, ours rates 22/31.
The point? In the link at the beginning of this post, the PM variants are claiming mid 40s mpg. Ain't gonna happen.
The biggest factor is that they are using the Imperial gallon vs the US gallon. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe our gallon is .81 smaller. So, a US diesel PM that gets 27mpg in Kansas automatically gets 33.3mpg in London.
The next is the test cycle. First off, the US government just spot checks, the EPA ratings are actually just the manufacturers claims. But I have found they are mostly accurate. If the window sticker says 20 city 30 highway, you can expect it to be fairly close (with a few notable exceptions resulting in class action suits against Honda, Ford, and Kia).
In Europe, the testing procedure is very different, resulting in inflated numbers. Just now, I looked up the 2015 Mustang ecoboost fuel economy in Britain. There is ZERO difference between our version and the Brit version except right hand drive. Mileage? 26 city and 37 highway. For comparison, ours rates 22/31.
The point? In the link at the beginning of this post, the PM variants are claiming mid 40s mpg. Ain't gonna happen.
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9,051 Posts
That's true, a better scale might be liters per 100 km, not imp MPG however the point of the article is comparing fuel economy between all the vans available in the UK, not against what is available in North America.
After all it is a UK site and the test results are in the measurement system in use there (although they have converted to the metric system also), not the USA or the rest of the world. Think of the poor Canadiens, they have to convert to and from metric, imperial and US to figure out their milage when talking to the Americans and Brits!
After all it is a UK site and the test results are in the measurement system in use there (although they have converted to the metric system also), not the USA or the rest of the world. Think of the poor Canadiens, they have to convert to and from metric, imperial and US to figure out their milage when talking to the Americans and Brits!
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I have a iphone app called "Units Plus" which I use to convert such things... you might get it. I think we all know our PM will not get 44mpg and that the English gal is different BUT......
Conversions for the 3.0 multijet euro engine and the automated manual transmission do get 30+ mpg under the euro testing system.... that seems to translate to 27+ mpg here. BTW the 44 mpg Imp. mileage was for a 2.3 liter multijet IIRC. That would be 36 mpg here but we don't get that engine and the difference in testing would probably return 33 here.
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Just drove from Idaho to New Your in my 14 Ext eco diesel....love this van! 22.5 mpg ! No problems whatsoever! Wife loves driving it .
And let's not forget Renault's entry into the EU van market
http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-tax/top-5-euro6-compliant-vans/?image=4
http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-tax/top-5-euro6-compliant-vans/?image=4
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8,719 Posts
Back that little thingy thing into the back of the PM and park the PM in a lot in the suburbs and go to town!
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53 Posts
In the real life, my consumption with my Hymer Exsis 2006 is around 8,5 l/100 km, or between 28 & 28 mi/US gal, measured on more than 10 000 km on european roads. It's a very small class A made on a Ducato diesel 2,3 l.
There is an european website were can be found real consuption data for many vehicles, including Fiat Ducato.
http://www.spritmonitor.de/
http://www.spritmonitor.de/
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654 Posts
The Twizy is with electric power only. I was hoping that they would sell this as a Renault in the USA. The F1 version looks cool!
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https://youtu.be/RyS1LnDodu8
https://youtu.be/RyS1LnDodu8
If someone could open a new thread for this X-Low option. I'm to new to open one.
http://coxxusa.com/x-low
http://coxxusa.com/x-low
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654 Posts
You are 100% correct about the testing cycles and imperial mpg, but the key point is that a manual shift 2.3 diesel would still get US MPG in the high 20's if not 30mpg. Truly impressive, and truly depressing since they sell this model in Mexico. Apparently Mexicans are smart enough to drive a manual transmission, but Ram considers Americans too stupid for that.
http://www.fiat.com.mx/ducato/2015/
http://www.fiat.com.mx/ducato/2015/
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8,719 Posts
Interesting that it also has the facelift too. Apparently we are also to stupid to drive the faster look! BTW that 2.3 should get 30 easily as it does in Europe and my 3.0 is getting 27 already when lightly loaded if I stay out of congested areas.
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