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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Greetings ,

I'm in the middle of my build! I have already installed the side front panel (driver side) and sliding door windows (CRL - Generic non-contour sliders).

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/C-R-LAURENCE-Universal-Non-Contoured-Horizontal/dp/B000K42JOG[/ame]

These windows are nice but the horizontal sliders are useless when it rains. I live in Montreal and I will travel a lot in the North East where rain is a weekly phenomenon.

So my last two windows (rear door) need to be awning type. I have been looking ALL OVER the place for some affordable 20x20 or 21x21 windows. Not luck yet.

I will not install anything but awning type windows in the back , and I am willing to wait until someone decides to make them ! ( OR until someone helps me find some)

So if anyone has any information or suggestions about this I would be eternally grateful ! Posting a for help thread is my last resort ! believe me !

BTW I will post my step by step build in the proper sub-forum in a few weeks .. Lots of pictures !

Thanks in advance !!! ... and please disregard my English, French Canadian here ....

-L
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That is actually not a bad idea ... I really wonder how "bubble like" they would look ... Sun roofs are usually this way ...

-L
 

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Greetings ,

I'm in the middle of my build! I have already installed the side front panel (driver side) and sliding door windows (CRL - Generic non-contour sliders).

http://www.amazon.com/C-R-LAURENCE-Universal-Non-Contoured-Horizontal/dp/B000K42JOG

These windows are nice but the horizontal sliders are useless when it rains. I live in Montreal and I will travel a lot in the North East where rain is a weekly phenomenon.

So my last two windows (rear door) need to be awning type. I have been looking ALL OVER the place for some affordable 20x20 or 21x21 windows. Not luck yet.

I will not install anything but awning type windows in the back , and I am willing to wait until someone decides to make them ! ( OR until someone helps me find some)

So if anyone has any information or suggestions about this I would be eternally grateful ! Posting a for help thread is my last resort ! believe me !

BTW I will post my step by step build in the proper sub-forum in a few weeks .. Lots of pictures !

Thanks in advance !!! ... and please disregard my English, French Canadian here ....

-L
softfx,

From a fellow Canuck on the other coast who can can feel your pain;)/rain, I went through a similar search. My conclusion and eventual buy found me on European shores at the door step of seitz window made by Dometc. Seitz latest window for the Fiat Ducato/Promaster is the S7P awning/Top Hung window. will follow up source if you are interested.

Cheers,

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
softfx,

From a fellow Canuck on the other coast who can can feel your pain;)/rain, I went through a similar search. My conclusion and eventual buy found me on European shores at the door step of seitz window made by Dometc. Seitz latest window for the Fiat Ducato/Promaster is the S7P awning/Top Hung window. will follow up source if you are interested.

Cheers,

Dave

Thanks a lot for that information Dave ,

I went ahead and looked up the Seitz S7P! There are exactly what I'm looking for. That being said , I did not find the one that are exactly for the Fiat Ducato, the sizes available are kind of confusing (the terminology seems a bit different in Europe in the automotive industry). Also I might have a small concern about them being in some sort of Lexan instaed of glass.

So yes, by all means, if you have a link to the ducato cutout size , I would really appreciate you sharing :)

Thanks again !

-Luc
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
How about installing a small square pop up sunroof in each door?

http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/s...y=30587:21809:21810:21816&ModelID=21831&pom=0

In the mean time I went ahead and cut two pieces of black Coroplast that I taped in place of the eventual 17"x17" square pop up sunroof. If I decide to go in that direction:





There is a CRL right here in Montreal , I will ask them if I can go have a look at those sunroofs before I buy them ... They do feel a bit small !
 

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I'd be leery about using pop up sunroofs or vents on a vertical surface. Most were designed to be on the roof of a vehicle, and the seals might not work correctly unless they are horizontal (Might allow water to enter or not stay closed well).


I'm still in the design phase of my build, but I posted a similar question a few months back on here.

http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40401




My decision was to ditch the idea of rear opening windows entirely, and instead rely on a roof mounted Maxxair vent and possibly small, sliding vent windows on the highest part of the rear quarters (if needed). I've been told that opening windows on the rear of the van can be problematic if used or left open when the van is underway. The biggest issue being that the dead air behind the van can allow exhaust fumes and dust to be pulled into the vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes I am also not sure about sun roof on a vertical plane. Anything on the roof usually needs some sort of Self leveling sealant. I will go have a look at those anyhow. As for a Maxxfan , I bought one a few weeks ago and I just finished the installation. I got a very good deal on the normal version ...But I should have gotten the deluxe that can operate in the rain ... Mistake ....

My older camper van (dodge ram van 2003) had rear door awning windows ... never a problem with fumes ...

-L
 

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Thanks a lot for that information Dave ,

I went ahead and looked up the Seitz S7P! There are exactly what I'm looking for. That being said , I did not find the one that are exactly for the Fiat Ducato, the sizes available are kind of confusing (the terminology seems a bit different in Europe in the automotive industry). Also I might have a small concern about them being in some sort of Lexan instaed of glass.

So yes, by all means, if you have a link to the ducato cutout size , I would really appreciate you sharing :)

Thanks again !

-Luc
Luc,

The Seitz S7P windows are not made to fit the van cut outs like CRL aftermarket auto windows. They are designed and made specifically for the RV window market in Europe. The important feature of the Seitz S7P is that they have a 5m radius/curve of the van side walls that matches the Ducato/Promaster to the millimetre.

Yes I agree the websites are beyond cryptic, if you looked up the word cryptic in the dictionary it would just say Dometic websites;) See attachment for size charts. There are two sizes that fit the back doors, I chose the 490 x 500 mm (this is the actual size you cut out). The window can be ordered with blinds/mosquito screen that finish the interior very well.

Yes the pains are made from Lexan/Polycarbonate and it is a double pain system that works really well to prevent condensation in winter and radiant heat transfer in summer. Ask your self does any one install single glaze windows in their house these days? The frames are made from extruded aluminum with a thermal break made of plastic just like modern house windows. The windows are crazy light! the windows weigh less than the steel you remove for the cut out. The radius of the aluminum corners is 80mm, so may match your existing CRL windows (see pics). The gas struts that hold the window open are well made and depending on the size of the window can hold the window open at almost 90 degrees.

The cons that I see are: the polycarbonate can scratch (this can be repaired but would require a fare amount of elbow grease), the blinds are fragile so expect to do repairs if you have kids or dogs that can mess with the screens. They are only available in Europe and only from a few suppliers as Dometic really intends to sell them only to RV manufactures. You can not leave these windows open when driving at speed.

I purchased the window from a German supplier (The website is in german, but with Mr Google translate the website is totally usable) and Phillip was super easy to deal with and of course with 90% of European folks he converses in many Languages:

Koberger-Online
Koberger GmbH
Rondenbarg 9
22525 Hamburg
Telefon: 040-800 408 41
Fax: 040-856 035
Web: www.koberger-hamburg.de
E-Mail: [email protected].

DHL was on strike when I placed my order so I used my own broker to arrange logistics, but I believe they normaly use DHL and make the arrangements for you.

If you go this route let me know and I can help you navigate the small details as Dometic's install instructions are also cryptic, but the actual install is very simple
after you have done it once or twice. Iv'e now installed 4 windows and a vent with the two more back windows and a Midi Heki roof lignt to go.

Hope this helps,

Dave from the wet west coast
 

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Thanks a lot for that information Dave ,

I went ahead and looked up the Seitz S7P! There are exactly what I'm looking for. That being said , I did not find the one that are exactly for the Fiat Ducato, the sizes available are kind of confusing (the terminology seems a bit different in Europe in the automotive industry). Also I might have a small concern about them being in some sort of Lexan instaed of glass.

So yes, by all means, if you have a link to the ducato cutout size , I would really appreciate you sharing :)

Thanks again !

-Luc
Luc,

Forgot to mention that I looked/researched marine windows very closely as they make awning windows as a standard item, but decided against it in the end as it was a bit extreme to get them in the 5m radius to match van walls and double pain.

In addition companies that make truck canopies make awning windows as a standard Item, but again my criteria was 5m radius and double pain.

See a couple more pictures attached of the Seitz S7P windows.

Cheers,

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Wow Dave ,

Thanks for this very very helpful information. Again, these windows are exactly what I'm looking for. The price is a bit steep (compare to the CRL generic flat windows). But I might just decide to fill up my piggy bank with very weak Canadian quarters in the coming months and get two of them. I also REALLY like the blinds+mosquito net frame .. amazing !!! ... hmm is it included or not ?

I have done a few installations in the last weeks : two windows and a Maxxfan ... So I did indeed cut right trough my new van with a jigsaw. Measure twice cut once as you guys say in English. So after both windows install, cutting through the van for the Maxxfan was a formality.

So, even though i'm not too worried about the installation ...

If I understand correctly : The measurements 500mm x 490mm are for the cut hole. You used butyl tape on the window outer frame, and clamped it to a backing frame inside the van ? If that is the case , it is pretty much what I did for both my CLR windows. (attached pics)

I am still a bit concerned about the Lexan material. We have real real winters here... and scraping windows at 6am is a reality. I really wonder how this material will react to that ... And how good is it for soundproofing ? I will be sleeping right next to it ...

All that being said , the price being a very big factor, I might just go with those :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BLACK-KINRO-18-x-15-RV-CRANK-OUT-WINDOW-CAMPER-TRAILER-ENCLOSED-CARGO-18X15-/331579270502?hash=item4d33aa2566&rmvSB=true

Someone in the build section just posted this.
Small , not very aesthetic ... but dirt cheap ...


Thanks again for all this precious information ! I will let you know about the progress :)

A few pictures :


Fresh outa the pool


Here we go !









Getting ready to cut through the roof for the fan


Boys at work sanding


Showing off final product


Clamp fest
 

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Luc,

Thanks for your build pictures, super pro job! Ben is so right, it is so great to see you are involving your kids:) They will be so proud to be cruising in the PM camper they help build!

Yes the Seitz are pricy. When looking at the price be sure to minus the VAT and shipping that is included in the Euro price. Unfortunately the blinds are sold separately and are an add cost.

Yes your window install looks almost identical to my install. The one important difference is you do not want to clamp the wood spacer ring as this takes out the curve in the van skin and can cause winkles in the steel skin. With the Seitz you can skip this one step. The wood backer plate is installed at the same time as the window so the window maintains the 5m radius in the steel van skin. The clamping brackets (sold separately) clamp the window and the wood backer plate altogether at the same time.

1) cut hole
2)test fit window and wood backer together
3) apply sealant/butyl tape to window and backer plate
4) install window
5) install wood backer plate
6) install clamping brakets (making sure to avoid over tightening bracket to avoid wrinkles in the skin)

You got me on the frost scraping, I did not even think of scraping! I don't think I would want to take the chance on that, having said that I don't rely on my rear windows at all to back up or change lanes. I ordered my PM with backup camera and sensors, its the first time I have had them and I really like them a lot. The windows in the dual sliding doors may be a problem though, as I do rely on them for vision at intersections and a shoulder check when changing lanes.

Yes the listed size of the window is the cut out size, so yes 490mm x 500mm is the size of hole you cut. I did not use butyl tape, instead I used Sika flex 221. Sika 221 is a sealer and a glue all in one. Seitz suggested in the instructions to use a butyl based Sika Flex calking, but you can't buy it in North America, so I used the 221.

Luc you may want to give these sources a try for full size/opening awing windows:

Bomon

They makes Marine window and are a french Canadian company. They have awning windows. They will most likely be flat, but for the small size it won't probably matter to much. They will likely be high quality but, pricy like all marine supplies.

http://www.bomon.com/EN_menu.html
http://www.bomon.com/EN_gal_win_hin_win.html

Sun-View
They make RV windows. They are located in the Summerland B.C. so our tiny dollar is good;). They don't list awning window on their website but they do make them. I think they do windows to order a well. Their pricing is bound to be lower than marine prices

http://www.sunviewindustries.ca/index.htm

Sun-View Industries can be contacted
using the information below.

Sun-View Industries Ltd.
Box 1229
15915 Bentley Place
Summerland, B.C.
Canada V0H 1Z0
phone: 250-494-1327
fax: 250-494-9221
email:[email protected]

Cheers from the from the warm wet side;)

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wow Dave, you certainly are full of ressources ! I will contact the different vendors in the coming weeks....

I will let you know about my progress :)

The canadian dollar is weak !!!!!

-L
 

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Seitz S7P Window

dave any pic of back windows, would be a grate help
also what are the two sizes that fit?
thanks vary much this post has been a grate help
Hey Lukewelsh,

Sorry no pictures as the back windows are still in the box! I have not had time to install them yet. I've been working on the other parts of the van.

I bought the 490 X 500 so I know this one fits. I seem to recall that the 560 x 465 also fit but not sure now.

Cheers,

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I hope they are still available to ship from Europe in spring ( and that the Canadian dollar goes up a bit ) . I will continue the work on the van when it's not -10 outside :)

Thanks again Dave for the info. I can't wait

-L
 
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