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I have two dealers quoting identical MSRP on a PM 1500 118WB LR special order I am looking at.

Has anyone seen below MSRP on a custom order 2023?
 

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I have two dealers quoting identical MSRP on a PM 1500 118WB LR special order I am looking at.

Has anyone seen below MSRP on a custom order 2023?
AFAIK, the final pricing on orders isn’t determined until the vehicle is on the lot and it can go either way (loosely).

For example I considered ordering my van because I couldn’t find one with all the options I was willing to pay for and nothing more. I wanted to know if current incentives would be applied to my order. Several dealers told me that the van would only be eligible for whatever incentives were available at the time of delivery, and they could not tell me when that would be. They were basically pushing me to buy something from their current inventory instead by trying to scare me about higher prices from ordering.

IMHO, the popularity of #vanlife, combined with the ridiculous housing market, has increased the demand for vans, but not to the point of MSRP pricing even for custom orders.

it’s a sellers market, but keep in mind that new Ford Transits and Mercedes Sprinters exist. Fortunately Promasters are the cheapest of the 3, and if you were forced to pay MSRP, you could easily walk away and go buy a Transit below MSRP. More importantly, by the time your custom order comes in, other dealers may have a similar van in stock by then. You could walk away and buy from another Ram dealer. I don’t remember what the average deposit amount is for a custom order usually, but the dealer sets the price. Since the only advantage any dealer has in a custom order is distance from you, you can shop around for the lowest deposit amount. $250 would be good, but I think $500 or $1000 norm.

Your current dealer will do everything in their power to make you believe your only option will be to pay MSRP, but buying a van isn’t like buying a limited edition Shelby Cobra 😆. They still have to sell the van if you walk, and they definitely won’t be getting MSRP for it, unless that’s truly what the current market dictates. Your custom van order will then be normal inventory in their lot. It was only a custom order to you.
 

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With current demand and the ongoing shortage of many vehicles including vans, there's no reason to offer any incentives and for many vehicles much the opposite is occurring. Just for reference, I was recently looking at buying a Toyota Sienna minivan. Depending on dealership, there's currently a $2500-5000 markup with a $500-1000 deposit just to get your name on a list for a Sienna, with a wait time projected of up to a year out, much longer in Canada. If you're willing to plunk down $10,000 (yes that's 4 zeroes) your name goes to the top of the long list - so not a good time to buy a Sienna. To me right now MSRP sounds pretty good, especially on a 118 which is extremely unlikely to be on a lot anywhere but who knows, you might get lucky.
 

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With current demand and the ongoing shortage of many vehicles including vans, there's no reason to offer any incentives and for many vehicles much the opposite is occurring. Just for reference, I was recently looking at buying a Toyota Sienna minivan. Depending on dealership, there's currently a $2500-5000 markup with a $500-1000 deposit just to get your name on a list for a Sienna, with a wait time projected of up to a year out, much longer in Canada. If you're willing to plunk down $10,000 (yes that's 4 zeroes) your name goes to the top of the long list - so not a good time to buy a Sienna. To me right now MSRP sounds pretty good, especially on a 118 which is extremely unlikely to be on a lot anywhere but who knows, you might get lucky.
The mini van market is a really good example of vehicles that are going for above MSRP. There's a huge shortage, but it's directly caused by the chip shortage, not necessarily by increased demand for a specific van. The demand is artificial.

There's so much more electronically controlled devices and systems in a mini van than a full size non-passenger cargo van.

In either case, it appears you may be right about the incentives this year. Some vehicles still have cashback incentives, while others are offering low interest rates. If the dealers can charge full MSRP or higher, the low interest rate incentives are still in their favor.

It depends on general demand for a specific vehicle, and how many doritos it comes with. The Sienna has always been in high demand with little to no incentives even before the shortage, and throughout its history. Actually most Japanese mini vans and sedans fall into that catory.
 

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This HUGE increase is what I can't get past and what is keeping me from buying new right now...it's gotta come down at some point!
View attachment 88280
Average price is somewhat inflated due to current vans being being shipped with much more factory installed options than previous years. It always happens on the last year before a redesign. But yeah the rest is inflation and shortages.
 

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Pushing installed options is one thing Toyota is also doing, with dealers adding a couple thousand in 'protection' packages + dealer options that are non-negotiable. Toyota reported being 42% behind in production from this time last year due to ongoing supply shortages. Their spokesperson said they expect things to start improving soon so maybe they're seeing light at the end of the tunnel.
 

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Chip shortages are supposed to recover some time in 2023, but I'm sure auto manufacturers will milk it a while longer beyond that. What PM buyers will have on their side is the fact that our vans are fleet cargo vehicles instead of consumer passenger vans. There's less customers at the consumer level, and more customers at the commercial level where they prefer stripped vans with less electronics.
 

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This past February, I paid a "market rate adjustment" on a new corolla of 1k over window sticker. My youngest boy works at Jim Butler Chevrolet, a new GM truck is 16k over sticker. MSRP seems to be a deal around here.
 

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fwiw
STELLANTIS INVENTORY BUILDING; FUEL-EFFICIENT MODELS HAVE LOW SUPPLY
Stellantis brands are at the top end of the inventory spectrum. In fact, Dodge and Ram inventories are high even compared with levels pre-COVID and before the chip shortage. Dodge closed June with a hefty 90 days’ supply. Ram followed with an 81 days’ supply. Jeep had a 62 days’ supply. Stellantis brands have had higher inventories throughout the chip shortage crisis compared with other brands.
 

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With current demand and the ongoing shortage of many vehicles including vans, there's no reason to offer any incentives and for many vehicles much the opposite is occurring. To me right now MSRP sounds pretty good,
My thoughts also. MSRP is fair in the current economic shite-cycle the world is in, right? Honestly were lucky to be able to buy new at all. I wouldn't expect significant discounts or incentives, the dealers don't have the inventory to do so, right?

And what about the China/Taiwan conflict and how it could derail the semiconductor/chip sector? It's possible new vehicles could take another dip in production mimicking 2020. Then we'll be pounding sand!

And if Amazon and UPS keep the automakers inventory tight year over year it could become the new normal, similar to Obama era ammo shortages where practically every U.S. government department placed orders that maxed out production leaving retail shelves empty.

And then factor in Monkeypox causing issues along with the conflict in Europe.

Get some heavy duty tin foil, make a helmet and go buy your van while you can!
 

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fwiw
STELLANTIS INVENTORY BUILDING; FUEL-EFFICIENT MODELS HAVE LOW SUPPLY
Stellantis brands are at the top end of the inventory spectrum. In fact, Dodge and Ram inventories are high even compared with levels pre-COVID and before the chip shortage. Dodge closed June with a hefty 90 days’ supply. Ram followed with an 81 days’ supply. Jeep had a 62 days’ supply. Stellantis brands have had higher inventories throughout the chip shortage crisis compared with other brands.
Does this mean Ram will have spare parts available for vehicles with warranty issues?
 

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fwiw
STELLANTIS INVENTORY BUILDING; FUEL-EFFICIENT MODELS HAVE LOW SUPPLY
Stellantis brands are at the top end of the inventory spectrum. In fact, Dodge and Ram inventories are high even compared with levels pre-COVID and before the chip shortage. Dodge closed June with a hefty 90 days’ supply. Ram followed with an 81 days’ supply. Jeep had a 62 days’ supply. Stellantis brands have had higher inventories throughout the chip shortage crisis compared with other brands.
Not to mention the PM platform has been in production since 2006 as a Ducato, and has only undergone a few face lifts, and not total redesigns. Aside from all the latest electronics it's received in very recent years (which are still very few compared to today's average consumer vehicle), it is much easier to maintain production levels from being in production for so long already. I'm guessing that Ram is able to build 5 PM's for everyone 1 Sienna that Toyota can build.

One of the more critical issues is the fact that we have an engine (Pentastar V6) that is prone to lifter and cam problems. And because it's shared between almost a dozen other vehicles, those shortages will affect us.
 

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My thoughts also. MSRP is fair in the current economic shite-cycle the world is in, right? Honestly were lucky to be able to buy new at all. I wouldn't expect significant discounts or incentives, the dealers don't have the inventory to do so, right?

And what about the China/Taiwan conflict and how it could derail the semiconductor/chip sector? It's possible new vehicles could take another dip in production mimicking 2020. Then we'll be pounding sand!

And if Amazon and UPS keep the automakers inventory tight year over year it could become the new normal, similar to Obama era ammo shortages where practically every U.S. government department placed orders that maxed out production leaving retail shelves empty.

And then factor in Monkeypox causing issues along with the conflict in Europe.

Get some heavy duty tin foil, make a helmet and go buy your van while you can!
Demand for cargo vans by package delivery giants is on our side. It puts priority on maintaining commercial van production over consumer vehicles. Manufacturers are desperate to win or keep those contracts, so there's more pressure on them to maintain production of parts and service. Where it falls short is that consumers have to take a backseat in terms of priority, but at least we know we can harvest parts from Amazon vans in the zombie apocalypse. Who's got priority now huh?
 

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Just glancing at cars.com, a lightly equipped 118lr nearby (well, Turlock) was listed for $46,990 (MSRP $42,995). I have to imagine that they'd get a lot lower if you showed up with a checkbook in hand. (And parenthetically, I'm freaked out that I paid about 28k after tax/tip in 2018.)
 

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Hopefully prices will decline in future years.

I'm curious for those who did a custom order pre-pandemic, was the price closer to MSRP just because it was a custom order (with items that might be less interesting to another shopper) versus something already on the lot?
 

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it’s a sellers market, but keep in mind that new Ford Transits and Mercedes Sprinters exist. Fortunately Promasters are the cheapest of the 3, and if you were forced to pay MSRP, you could easily walk away and go buy a Transit below MSRP. More importantly, by the time your custom order comes in, other dealers may have a similar van in stock by then. You could walk away and buy from another Ram dealer. I don’t remember what the average deposit amount is for a custom order usually, but the dealer sets the price. Since the only advantage any dealer has in a custom order is distance from you, you can shop around for the lowest deposit amount. $250 would be good, but I think $500 or $1000 norm.
You can go buy a Transit, but it might not show up. I was going between a Promaster and Transit, and we opted to go the PM route for a few reasons but mostly because of timing/delivery. From following order threads on Transit people were waiting 8-10 months on the norm, some longer, and a lot had orders cancelled out and pushed to 2023’s where they saw a 6-10K increase.

As for the stock w/r/t custom, not to be rude but “good luck”. I spent a good 1-2 months looking for Transits, and then promasters, that met our “must haves” and 9 times out of 10 there was one item missing or something added we absolutely didn’t need. In the event we did find one it was already long sold because they were custom orders mixed in with inventory orders.

The price we got right now on a 2023 PM is going to be coming in under MSRP per the fleet manager we’re ordering through; I think 1800-2500 off. The deposit is either 500 or 1000, forget, but we could possibly have it by November/December if we get it locked in. I think our current quote is 52K for a 159WB High Roof 2500. We’re just waiting to hear back on modifications due to removal of the advanced safety group package, and hopefully adding in the normal safety group or at least the blind spot
 

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I think our current quote is 52K for a 159WB High Roof 2500.
I was just on Carmax, and in VA what's available for sale in the used market was 4 vehicles, 2018-2021 2500 high roof, 9000-35000 miles, $50000 to $61000.

One vehicle had a tpms alert on the dash and super low level coolant reservoir, the higher mileage if I recall.

Carvana has 2 for sale but further details reveal recalls not allowing purchase at this time.

Something is way off here.
 

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I was just on Carmax, and in VA what's available for sale in the used market was 4 vehicles, 2018-2021 2500 high roof, 9000-35000 miles, $50000 to $61000.

One vehicle had a tpms alert on the dash and super low level coolant reservoir, the higher mileage if I recall.

Carvana has 2 for sale but further details reveal recalls not allowing purchase at this time.

Something is way off here.
Used market still hasn’t come down, that’s whats up. Folks whom need vans ASAP are keeping it propped up which is why you’re seeing vans selling for 45-55K with 40-50K miles on them. I‘ve seen folks sell their brand new, less than 1K mile Transits for 75K.

New is absolutely cheaper right now if you have the time to wait, which we do, so we’re going that route. IIRC it’s 2500 159 High with 220 alt, black wheels (new for ’23), tow/hitch, surround camera & digital rearview, no windows, swivel seats, cruise control. We’re just trying to get blind spot added in our original order had the advanced safety package and were told by the rep ”this will 100% hold you up”.
 
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