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Discussion Starter #1
Quite frankly every thread I read through on this forum has bad things to say about the promaster. It seems as if all the posters online are 6' 4" tall! Now that seems a little odd to me, as I have only really worked with a handful of people that are as tall if not taller than this. Next, another topic That's being driving me crazy is a lot of posters on this forum are saying how close the price is to Mercedes. The promaster that our company has priced totally upfitters costs less than the sprinter by mercedes. Totally upfitters the sprinter costs Appx 6-7k more that the promaster. Now, let's actually consider all of the costs. The sprinter will require over $4500 in general maintenance by 60k miles, and over $9000 by the time it hits 120k miles. Not to mention the sprinter is only getting between 2-5mpg combined over the promaster. There is no way a company could ever make this money back by the 2-5mpg difference in fuel savings. Lastly, everyone speaks of how the sprinter is diesel. Diesel motors now days require lots of maintenance, and do t be fooled into thinking the engine will stay on the road forever. One last thing that should be mentioned; Mercedes charges $270 + tax for a oil change. Who cares if its a little uncomfortable when your saving thousands of dollars. What would you rather have: 1) a growing company with great profit margins, and little fleet maintenance? 2) a vehicle that will suck you dry while you try to develop a fleet?
 

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Driving behind a Mercedes and they are very narrow at the top and tall at the back.
The Pm is way lower and square.
I am 5'9 and yet to test one ,so I can not comment on it yet.
The height and floor height sold me to one, and I put a down payment on a diesel
and will not be here till march.
I am assuming that in the future when they need parts the cost for the MB will be
high as compared to the PM.
Also the MB have rust issues, have they fix that yet? I have seen 4 year old MB's
with rust spots all over the sides of the van. Having a so called premium van and
driving around with the 3 star emblem with those spots would piss me off.
I see these rusted vans every day of the week.
 

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...Totally upfitters the sprinter costs Appx 6-7k more that the promaster. ...
Even 6-7K is "almost as much" in my book. Your talking only 15%. The configuration I priced only saved 4K and I still need rear seats. Until Transit officially joins the ring there is nothing else to compare to so the Benz comparison is inevitable.

No one says you have to go to Mercedes for service. Unless you are talking gas vs diesel I would think the service requirements for each would be similar. Promaster is unproven so I would reserve judgement as to which will cost more in the long run. For the record, I own a Mercedes ML - a vehicle with a supposedly horrible reliability record. Bought it used with 100K on it and haven't spent a dime other than oil & filters in 4 years. Apparently they haven't programmed it to self destruct if I don't take it in for the recommended inspections. I also own a 78 Fiat Spider so I am no Fiat basher. I've owned GM, Ford, and Chrysler products and worked on every single one myself.

FWIW, I found the driving position and the driver seat perfectly acceptable and I applaud them for offering a driver side slider. So it's not all negative.
 

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I am a tall person & have found the Promaster lacking in legroom. I own a 2003 Chev Express that has been quite reliable but the 14 mpg has me wanting to upgrade in the next year.
The day after I drove the PM I drove a Sprinter & was impressed with the amount of room & adjust ability of the driving position, it is far superior in driving position to the PM.
I have no experience with either of these vehicles other than the test drive & what I have read on the web.
I will need the van for both business & personal use, it will be my only vehicle. The pricing I have done on 2014, 4 cyl. diesel, lightly optioned versions of these vans has the Sprinter about $2500-$3000 more than the PM. Both should return similar mpg in the mid to high 20's based on limited information available at this time.
I would not hesitate to spend 10% more for a van that I keep for perhaps 10 years, & drive daily, that is not a penalty box I have to wedge myself into & try to get comfortable for each drive.
You can also buy 4 yr/60,000 mile service for the Sprinter for $2000 & 6 year 90,000 mile service for $2640, which seems reasonable to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
"Well ok then, thanks for the short bean-counter perspective ."

I' not really sure how my information falls into the scope of your statement. I posted overall pricing of our finding of the vehicle supplied by our local Mercedes dealer from purchase up to 120k miles. You can easily factor out the rest of the pricing for maintenance to whatever the mileage is when your company replaces fleet vehicles. The main point I was trying to get across is the promaster is about $15k cheaper to just get the fleet vehicle to 120k miles. As for those not servicing your vehicle at the dealer, yes, it may be cheaper, however, who knows if Mercedes would still honor the warranty if there were any problems. One last thing that wasn't mentioned is that the promaster has a 100k mile power train warranty, and the sprinter only comes with a 36k mile power train warranty. You can buy a 125k mile warranty for the power train from Mercedes, however, it costs an additional $2500. I'm just trying to get the point across that the sprinter may be only 6k more upfront, however, in the long run it's very expensive. Besides, how long do you actually expect to be able to run a fleet vehicle? By 6yrs 180,000 miles our vehicles need to be replaced due to them being old, banged up, and the potential for costly repairs. We like to keep a new image for our company, and with newer vehicles it just looks more professional in our opinion. One expensive repair to an older vehicle could almost account for 2 years of payments on a newer vehicle, not to mention having to replace components failing due to age, and tires. I will note that someone mentioned its practically the same price, and only 15% more; If you needed 12 fleet vehicles, you could buy 10 promasters and 2 free ones with the saving by not buying a sprinter (Depending on model, and up fitting of coarse).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I will tell all the sprinter fans out there some information you might find useful. When we told the benz dealer we were going with the promaster they immediately took an extra $1000 off the price to try and sell us a sprinter. If your'e going to buy a sprinter, I would just say this, and get them to knock more off the price. Also, our local promaster dealer is doing our graphics free of charge.
 

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I think we are looking at the vehicle in much different ways. This is not a fleet vehicle for me, I will be the only driver. I also keep my vehicles for several years.
How could the PM cost $15,000 less for 120,000 miles when it has been out for 1 month & no one has any idea what the cost/reliability is for this van?
Also, the Sprinter has a 100,000 mile engine warranty, not 3/36,000.
I am aware that you are anti Sprinter & a fleet operator, but you have no experience with the new 4 cylinder & 7spd as it also has been out about 1 month. The service costs I talked about are from the Sprinter dealer.
I was quite prepared to like the PM, it has some great features, I just don't fit in it & since I have to drive it daily it is critical that I am comfortable.
 

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I do agree that it seem slike a lot of people on this forum are tall and complain about comfort in the ProMaster, me being one of them. I just take it from people on the forum though, i haven't test drove the proMaster or anything.

I think you would be crazy to think that the Sprinter is going to be cheaper in the end or something. At this point we can't rally say how the reliability of the ProMaster compares to the Sprinter though. It may turn out that the Promaster is fragile and needs work pretty regularly, who knows? only time will tell.
 

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Pretty positive sprinters can be maintained at your local Ram dealer, remember Dodge had a sprinter as well....



besides, if you're bringing them fleet vehicles they offer fleet maintenance packages. Kind of like you pay fleet pricing when buying in bulk you pay fleet rates when fixing in bulk ;)

Diesel will save you that 15% initial purchase premium over the life of the vehicle. A vehicle getting 30 MPG will cost you $903 less in fuel each year than one that gets 20 MPG (assuming 15,000 miles of driving annually and petrol costs $3.61).

Over 5 years, the 30-MPG vehicle will save you $4,515. Again, thats petrol. If you do diesel vs petrol the numbers get even higher.

If the Sprinter Diesel is pulling down ~10 mpgs better than Promaster for a $6K premium, then saving ~ $4,500 in 5 years on fuel costs is a pretty good recoup i would say.

But what do I know, Im just a fisherman who don't know nothing....
 

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and for even cheaper maintenance im sure you can take it to an independent shop, since they are so many sprinters on the road, im sure there have been a number of non-dealer techs that worked on them and that know about them.
 

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people naturally will compare what is new to all that is old. and alot of the time people get hyped up prior to seeing the car only to dissapoint themselves.
 

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Pretty positive sprinters can be maintained at your local Ram dealer, remember Dodge had a sprinter as well....



besides, if you're bringing them fleet vehicles they offer fleet maintenance packages. Kind of like you pay fleet pricing when buying in bulk you pay fleet rates when fixing in bulk ;)

Diesel will save you that 15% initial purchase premium over the life of the vehicle. A vehicle getting 30 MPG will cost you $903 less in fuel each year than one that gets 20 MPG (assuming 15,000 miles of driving annually and petrol costs $3.61).

Over 5 years, the 30-MPG vehicle will save you $4,515. Again, thats petrol. If you do diesel vs petrol the numbers get even higher.

If the Sprinter Diesel is pulling down ~10 mpgs better than Promaster for a $6K premium, then saving ~ $4,500 in 5 years on fuel costs is a pretty good recoup i would say.

But what do I know, Im just a fisherman who don't know nothing....
Saving nearly $5k after 5 years is great, money you can put back into your business to buy a newer and better truck/van. I bet by then what ever promaster is out will be light years better.
 
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