[RV8R]

12vdc Electrical Wire - For Distribution;

I buy a 100’ roll of 12/2 marine grade wire & run all my distribution from panel to load off that ,,, Unless I need bigger wire due to voltage drop or long circuits with critical loads.

Buy Ancor Duplex Cable by the Spool in Canada Binnacle.com

ca.binnacle.com

Ancor Marine Grade Electrical Standard Duplex Tinned Boat Cable, Wire - Amazon Canada

Ancor Marine Grade Electrical Standard Duplex Tinned Boat Cable in Wire.

www.amazon.ca

 

[larry barello]

The IceCo fridge says .545kwh(24hrs), so converting that to amp hrs I get 45.417.....so that number should be divided by 24(if it''s running 24 hrs a day)? Sooo, 1.89 ah average?

Your math is good. The last sentence is where you went off the rails.

You basically understand what the issues are and how to solve them. You are only guilty of overthinking the problem - that is not a criticism, I totally did the same as would anyone doing this the first time!

Refrigerator energy use depends upon the ambient temperature. Normal room temperature is where the unit is tested. A cool interior will use less. Hot, more.

For reference: My wiring diagram

 

[Motor7]

Larry, I like the 12ga extension wiring idea...I will go with 10ga to the roof a/c. Much better than stiffy romex.

 

[SteveSS]

Much better than stiffy romex.

Yes, romex (house wire) is stiff and hard to work with. Some folks do wire vans with it, but road vibration has also been known to fatigue and crack its large stiff wires. Stranded wire is way more flexible, easier to work with, and resistant to vibration fatigue. Worth the extra expense, I think.

 

[ohecht]

I'm a big fan of the wiring diagrams and other advice at Explorist.Life - I used those and almost all Victron products to build a system that I really don't have to worry about in terms of manually switching anything, etc. I agree with the advice above that a B2B (DC/DC) charger is probably a better idea than an isolator. I also agree with @Winston that a sophisticated inverter/charger like the Victron Multiplus types might prevent you from having to switch your HWH from (direct?) shore power to your inverter and back...was that just because the inverter isn't large enough for the HWH? As long as it's appropriately sized, I think any brand inverter/charger would simply your system and operations by passing through shore power when connected and charging the batteries while on shore power without you having to do anything other than plug into shore power. Well worth the investment in terms of the simplification and convenience for your overall system IMO.

Camper Wiring Diagram w/ 3000w Inverter & 600-1200w Solar

3000w Inverter, 600-1200w Solar, Battery to Battery Charger, Shore Power, 600Ah Lithium Batteries

www.explorist.life

 

[Motor7]

I'm a big fan of the wiring diagrams and other advice at Explorist.Life - I used those and almost all Victron products to build a system that I really don't have to worry about in terms of manually switching anything, etc. I agree with the advice above that a B2B (DC/DC) charger is probably a better idea than an isolator. I also agree with @Winston that a sophisticated inverter/charger like the Victron Multiplus types might prevent you from having to switch your HWH from (direct?) shore power to your inverter and back...was that just because the inverter isn't large enough for the HWH? As long as it's appropriately sized, I think any brand inverter/charger would simply your system and operations by passing through shore power when connected and charging the batteries while on shore power without you having to do anything other than plug into shore power. Well worth the investment in terms of the simplification and convenience for your overall system IMO.

Camper Wiring Diagram w/ 3000w Inverter & 600-1200w Solar

3000w Inverter, 600-1200w Solar, Battery to Battery Charger, Shore Power, 600Ah Lithium Batteries

www.explorist.life

I think I want to keep the shore power and solar separate. In other words, shore power comes in, then to a breaker box, then a feed for the roof air, one for the HWH and a couple of outlets. To use the HWH on the inverter, yes I would have to unplug from the 120v outlet and plug into the 2,000 watt inverter....no biggie. Everything else will run off solar/alternator/batteries. I just think it is a little cheaper to go this way and simpler for the smaller van applications.
In the larger Class A's and C we have owned, yes, I agree with having everything switching automatically, since those have a lot more going on with the electrical side. I will check out the Explorist Life...thanks!

 

[dog_house]

I think I want to keep the shore power and solar separate. In other words, shore power comes in, then to a breaker box, then a feed for the roof air, one for the HWH and a couple of outlets. To use the HWH on the inverter, yes I would have to unplug from the 120v outlet and plug into the 2,000 watt inverter....no biggie. Everything else will run off solar/alternator/batteries. I just think it is a little cheaper to go this way and simpler for the smaller van applications.
In the larger Class A's and C we have owned, yes, I agree with having everything switching automatically, since those have a lot more going on with the electrical side. I will check out the Explorist Life...thanks!

 

[Wowbagger]

If you are using a LiFePO4 battery, you need a DC-DC charger between the alternator and the battery. The float voltage for the alternator will be about 13.8V, the final charge voltage for LiFePO4 is 14.4V, so it will never reach a proper charge. Also, if that battery is ever run down to 20% state of charge, and you have it directly connected to the alternator, it will channel it's inner Audrey, say "FEED ME!" and try to pull a sustained 300A of current from the alternator. The DC-DC charger will prevent that.

Also, how are you planning on handling shore power in vs. the inverter? Does the inverter have a relay for switching between external and internal power? Does it correctly bond the 120VAC neutral to ground when on internal and NOT bond it when on external?

 

[Motor7]

Dog House, that's pretty much it except for [not]connecting the inverter to the fuse panel.

Wobagger, that is one reason I do not want the inverter connected to shore power. My inverter is an older Kisae 2,000watt, so I don't even know if it has automatic switching capability.
I think the dc-dc charger in the Kisae DMT1250 will take care of the proper voltage to the LifePo4's?

Kisae Technology DMT1250 - Inverter Supply

Shop for Kisae Technology DMT1250 at Inverter Supply for best prices online. Kisae Technology DMT1250, Kisae Technology, DMT1250, Smart DC to DC Battery Charger, Kisae Battery Chargers

www.invertersupply.com

 

[RV8R]

View attachment 94602

Recently rebuilt my first van for my buddy. We eliminated the Pos Bus which literally had two wires attached to it 🙄.

In that configuration, I would be tempted to attach a Blue Sea “Dual” terminal fuse (one to panel & one to the inverter)

That breaker could be changed to a fuse also. In fact, I would be tempted to have that double fuse holder referenced above & one fuse going to the 12vdc panel sized for the panel/wire & I would place the charge wire from the Kisae & the inverter on the other higher amp fuse.


Another note; That “Smart Shunt” ,,, I believe it is well worth the additional cost to go with the BM712 over the smart shunt. It just does way more, including programmable relays. Not that I use all the “bells & whistles”, but they are there incase of future heeds without replacing the equipment.

 

[RV8R]

Dog House, that's pretty much it except for [not]connecting the inverter to the fuse panel.

Wobagger, that is one reason I do not want the inverter connected to shore power. My inverter is an older Kisae 2,000watt, so I don't even know if it has automatic switching capability.
I think the dc-dc charger in the Kisae DMT1250 will take care of the proper voltage to the LifePo4's?

Kisae Technology DMT1250 - Inverter Supply

Shop for Kisae Technology DMT1250 at Inverter Supply for best prices online. Kisae Technology DMT1250, Kisae Technology, DMT1250, Smart DC to DC Battery Charger, Kisae Battery Chargers

www.invertersupply.com

yup the Kisae 1250 can charge @ a max of 50 amps ,,, so you can user set the stages to match your lithium required charge profile.

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf

the inverter should be connected to the battery terminal (pos) & shunt (neg). Probably too much current to go thru your panel. I don’t have the specs on your inverter, but I am assuming your 12vdc panel can’t handle the amps thru it your inverter needs. In rough terms you knock a zero off the watts & that is the amps ,,, so 2000W inverter is a 2000 ,,, 200 amp load ,,, the max load rating of my 12vdc panel is 30 amps ,,, or so it is fused.


@Motor7 ,,, If you pick out ( solidify ) all your components ( equipment & loads ), & complete a “load chart” I am convinced “The Forum” can do a pretty great job of helping you thru the “Design”.

 

[Motor7]

That brings up another question on grounding. Shore power to breaker panel, breaker to a/c, breaker to 2 wall outlets(20amp). Does this only use the ground supplied from shore power, or does a ground get bonded to the van? I read something on this a couple of years ago, but can't remember the proper way to do it.

 

[Motor7]

OK, I am ordering the DMT1250 and the DMTRM1201 remote dislplay. from InverterSupply.com....do I need the Kisae thermometer cable for the LifePo if I am going to put heating pads under them?

What size fuse from Alt to B2B?
What size fuse/breaker from B2B to battery?
What size fuse/breaker from battery to Inverter?

I think Blue Sea is recommended for all the fuses/breakers.

Sorry for all the questions, I need to let the Nespresso machine coll down

 

[RV8R]

OK, I am ordering the DMT1250 and the DMTRM1201 remote dislpay. from InverterSupply.com....do I need the Kisae thermometer cable for the LifePo if I am going to put heating pads under them?

What size fuse from Alt to B2B? Well check with Kisae ,,, but a 50amp max load ,,, I would think 60 to 70 Amps ,,, I would think the “70 amp upfitter fuse would be good enough - size your wire for the 70 amp fuse if that is your choice”.

What size fuse/breaker from B2M to battery? Kisae

What size fuse/breaker from battery to Inverter? Depends on the inverter load ,,, what inverter are you going with? Best to install the inverter as close as possible to the “lithium house batteries”.

I think Blue Sea is recommended for all the fuses/breakers. If you are talking 12vdc ( I like Blue Sea ). No need for breakers. I use a 4 position switch for my electrical installations. With a little imagination they work out great for me & the cost of them is marginally more than a two position switch.

Sorry for all the questions, I need to let the Nespresso machine coll down

 

[larry barello]

Shore ground bonded to van. In your case inverter also bonded to van. This is what a proper inverter/charger provides for bonding shore power vs. inverter power:

(Renogy inverter/charger manual)

I don't know what the old Kisae inverter provides. I assume it handles bonding internally.

From above:
My wiring diagram (above) is pretty much what I recommend with the exception that the B2B to house should have a disconnect. This isn't for protection but more for convinience.

The high power breakers from Bluesea, Mechanical Product and Optifuse all seem to work as advertised. No-name breakers are not so good. I have a box of them to prove it. Quality doesn't necessarily mean more expensive if you use MP or Opti.

Others may disagree with my minimal-protection philosophy. I am assuming everything is close together so putting a breaker/fuse on a 20" length of #2 is super irrelevant. Even #4 will pop the 175A main battery breaker/fuse easily without bursting into flames.

I don't know about a thermometer for the Kisae. On the Renogy units it is used to modify the Lead Acid charge profile and has no other function for LiFePO4 other then to cut off charging if the temperature drops to 0C.

 

[RV8R]

I have not dove into it ,,, but @el Jefe or @nebulight probably know this

I believe the Victron BM712 can be setup to control a relay based upon battery temperature ( I think it is measured @ the positive terminal ).

BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy

Communicate wirelessly between products and simplify system installation and enhance performance using the BMV-712 Smart. Find a dealer now.

www.victronenergy.com

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/BMV-712_Smart/9172-Manual_BMV_and_SmartShunt-pdf-en.pdf

@Motor7 ,,, If these manuals & equipment seem daunting ,,, it actually pretty easy to wire up. You are in good hands with the collective knowledge for such things on “The Forum”.

 

[Wowbagger]

I think the dc-dc charger in the Kisae DMT1250 will take care of the proper voltage to the LifePo4's?

It may do so, when charging off shore power. But when charging off the alternator you will never reach full charge without a DC-DC converter.

 

[Motor7]

It may do so, when charging off shore power. But when charging off the alternator you will never reach full charge without a DC-DC converter.

The main source of charging will be the 310 watt solar panel. Alternator charging will be secondary/supplemental. So, is the DC2DC in the Kisae abysmally weak?

DC to DC Battery Charger Series
KISAE DMT-1250 Smart Battery Chargers

In-vehicle optimal charging and maintenance for marine and RV deep-cycle batteries.

• Dual Input Capability: MPPT Solar Input & Auxiliary Input.
• Multi-stage battery charger ensures that your batteries are charged the way battery manufacturers recommend.
• Small footprint, extremely compact design.
• Saves money by maximizing battery life.
• System Diagram | Download

Features and Benefits

• DC to DC Battery Charger
• Microprocessor controlled multi-stage charging algorithms (bulk, absorption, float) for gel, flooded and AGM batteries and equalization for flooded batteries
• Silent mode for quiet operation
• MPPT solar regulator allows you to provide maximum power from solar panels to battery
• Optional remote allows you to view system information

 

[Jing]

I think wowbagger might be confused and doesn't understand the Kisae is a DC-DC. You will be fine with the 1250 and it will take good care of your Li batteries.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Motor7]

Yes, my thread darts off in many directions.....mostly due to my disorganized thought process🤨. It's a full time job keeping me in line ii tell 'ya.. ..😇