[Motor7]

310 watts of solar, 2,000 watt inverter, 2- 100amp LifePo4 batteries.

I think I want shore power separate from the 12v solar system to power the roof air and a few outlets just for simplicity. The biggest power hog will be the Eccotemp 2.5 water heater with it's 1440 watt element, so it will plug into inverter when rolling, and plug into shore power outlet when at campgrounds.

I have looked at a bunch of wiring diagrams, and have not found one to match what I think I need. I am confident doing general electrical work, have put in two independent solar systems on other campers, but am not too confident on building a system from scratch.

So far I have:
150 amp battery isolator
12 led puck lights
2 led reading lamps
2 dimmers for pucks
Progressive Dynamics Power control Center fuse box
12v iceco fridge/freezer
diesel parking heater
Renogy Voyager 20amp charge controller
inline fuses & disconnects
10ga Anchor wire for solar panels
4ga for batteries

As to the Battery to Battery charger....what size? They start at 20amp, and go up to 60+amp. Bigger is most likely better/faster, but the larger one's seem to be overkill?

This diagram is close....good enough to work with/modify?

Ok, go slow with me...."Mongo not no how 2 spel,...Die AH Gram"

 

[Motor7]

Larry, thanks for the info. I can ditch the Renogy Voyager and use it on the Pontoon boat(adding 1 - 310 panel there to charge two deep cycle car batteries & run the same IceCo).

Which combo solar/alternator charge controller would you recommend for the van? I have installed the Bogart SC-2030 in the past, would that be a better choice?

 

[Motor7]

I have no experience with the progressive dynamics power centers. I do wonder though - since it already has a fuse block built in - maybe it is possible to just attach all of your smaller DC items to it?

Example

• refrigerator
• solar charge controller
• lights
• etc.

Yes, it's just a fuse panel in a plastic recessed housing. As for more batteries, you may be right, but we typically don't use a ton of power on our trips, but then again, no boondocking so far for more than a few days at a time. I wonder why pucks don't play well with dimmers?

 

[Motor7]

Ok, will check the pucks later today....I 'think' they are dimmable, but I bought them a year+ago. I think I want to ditch the Renogy anyway since it's PWM, so putting solar on the pontoon roof where it will never get shading, the PWM makes more sense. So, then my option is to use the 150Amp Battery Doctor isolator and a new Mppt controller, or just by a combo unit like the Bogart? Kinda leaning towards the Bogart for the same reasons you mentioned:

Bogart Engineering Trimetric BMS

Trimetric BMS TM-2030 Battery Monitor, SC-2030 Solar Charger Shunt & accessories. Get more cycle life from your lead acid (flooded or AGM/Gel) batteries by automatically ensuring that they are fully charged every time. PWM MPPT RV Solar Charger

shop.bogartengineering.com

Kinda pricey though, so I am exploring other brands.

I do have the 180amp alternator.

 

[Motor7]

On another note ,,, My other Friend’s recent rebuild ,,, In basically rewiring his entire van, but keeping most of the wires 120vac & 12vdc at the same length ( I had to splice 3 12vdc lines that grew in length ), we basically pulled the power center out of the original location by “disconnecting the load side” & left the panels wired up.

When complete & re energized, I was getting a “cross feed” on circuits 1 & 2. As “negative is home run ,, but common” it had to be on the positive side. At first I thought his motherboard had gone bad, but started to look at the fuses & with in 1 minute found this;




If you can’t quite figure out the problem, let me direct your attention to circuits 1 thru 6 & specifically 1 & 2. You will see cross contamination of several “strands” of wire touching between 1 & 2 ( pump & fridge ).

So I turned to my Buddy ( because I installed these wires originally & they were perfect ), & I asked him, “Who did you have working on your van up in the Yukon?” Just the RV Tech Shop that redid some plumbing & winterized it”, he said.

I was livid 👿👿. Then I handed him my surgical instruments I use to install virgin factory twist wire into such connections & fully in ,,, not 1/2 way out. I asked him what the labour rate was & @ north of $100/hr I expect way way better than that. Plus ,,, all he had to do to kill the circuit is pull the fuse ( or turn the big red switch off ) ,,, I have no idea why that RV Tech pulled the positive wires out ,,, but that quality of work is tragically crappy. Hey @83Grumman that Tech is a “Professional” 😳.

In reference ,,, this is how an Amateur ,,, “me” performed the original;
Regardless of all this @Motor7 ,,, I prefer this style 12vdc board / panel over the “pigtails” & crimps.

Yikes, I saw those wild strands right off the bat....not good!

The PG is just a fuse/breaker box, no charger in it.

 

[Motor7]

Hi,
A couple thoughts/questions on your diagram...

- I'm probably missing something, but I don't see how +12 volts gets to the fuse box? It seems like normally there would be a 12 volt wire going from the house battery terminal (or positive bus bar) to the fuse box. This line should be fused as close as possible to the house battery.

- The line going from the starter battery to the house battery (via the isolator) wants to have a fuse or breaker on both ends because it has current sources on both ends. If it does not have a fuse on each end, then if there is a short of this wire to the van chassis, then one the two current sources will be shorted to the chassis.

- I'd consider using a DC to DC charger instead of the isolator. It seems like when investing quite a bit of money in the Li batteries, that its probably worth spending the extra for the DC to DC to make sure the Li batteries get charged properely. I used the Kisae DC to DC charger, which also includes a solar charger in the same unit - but, looks like you might have the charge controller already.

- I'd get familiar with the BlueSea Circuit Wizard for wire sizing. It was developed by BlueSea and follows the ABYC marine electric code. Very easy to use and very safe, but not overly conservative. If you use it to size the inverter, the aprox current is (2000 watts) / (12.5 volts)(0.85 efficiency) = 190 amps - if you use the inverter at full power. When using the Circuit Wizard to size the inverter, fill in the Duration blank with how long you expect to use it at one time.

- The Fridge seems to be not connected to anything right now? It looks like where you have positioned it, you plan to run it off the inverter? Since it runs on 12V or 120VAC, I'd consider hooking it up to your 12V fuse box instead so that you don't have to run the inverter all the time to keep the fridge running - the inverter add inefficiency and uses power even when there is no load on it.

- A lot of people use this dual pole breaker to shut off the solar and provide overcurrent protection. There is technically an NEC rule that says you need to break both of the lines from the solar panels. Since solar panels are self limiting on current, they don't really need protection, but its very handy to use the breaker as a switch.

- Be careful that all wires that are leaving a current source (eg house battery or van battery) is protected by a fuse or breaker of the right size that is located as close as possible to the current source.

Gary

I just pulled that digram off the 'net today. I have printed it out, and will be getting my crayon out to make adjustments. Yes, it is missing a few things, and I am not yet sure where/how the heavy gauge wires to the hot water heater get connected. Yep, fridge to fuse panel. And, I need to figure out how many and what type of breaker/fuses I need.

 

[Motor7]

I appreciate all the responses and info...it is a bit overwhelming at times, though. Hat's off to the pro's here that do this stuff in their sleep 😎

Looking at this dc to dc/solar chager:

Amazon.com: KISAE Technology DMT1250 Abso DC-DC Charger, 50A : Automotive

Buy KISAE Technology DMT1250 Abso DC-DC Charger, 50A: Battery Chargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Rated voltage on my 310watt panel is 37.2v....and I am having trouble finding the input voltage of the Kisae & Renogy.
Victron 12/12/30 says 8-17v.

 

[Motor7]

Have to be honest, I am leaning towards the Kisae DMT1250.....

I do think I need a separate battery monitor though......DMTRM1201

 

[Motor7]

What is the consensus on LifePo4 batteries in really cold weather? Heating pads, or a temp monitor to turn off charging...or both? Our van could very well end up in Manitoba....in January🥶

 

[Motor7]

Not my business, but, did you get tired of the low ballin tire kickers trying to shred your valuation to pieces??

Are you keeping the van? Did I miss something?

Actually, I did not get an offer, but had two interested parties that I think were serious. After adding up everything, I had $10k in accessories/add on's & the wife convinced me to BUILD IT! Turns out, she was....rrrr...rrrrhhhh,,,,rrrah...rright!

 

[Motor7]

Hi,
I used a low wattage (12 watts) heater pad under each of my 2 LiFePo4 batteries. The heaters are low enough wattage that they don't need a temperature controller to regulate their temperature.
The two pads are on a switch which I turn on manually on those rare occasions when I need them.
The most common case is that its winter and cold and the van has been cold soaking out in the driveway for days and we want to leave on a trip. I turn the heaters on when we leave or the night before and it warms up the batteries. Once the batteries and van are warmed up, the heaters are not needed even if its really cold outside.


This is the temperature plot for heaters on..


The red is under the battery near the heater.
Blue is top of battery temp.
Green is outside ambient

Looking down into the battery compartment with the heater in place.
The heater pad has paper stuck to it from a previous experiement.
The black box is one of the two SOK batteries.


I have the SOK batteries - if I were buying them again, I'd buy the new models with built in heaters, as they don't cost much more.
Whether you need the heaters depends mostly on whether you want to be able to take winter trips in the van in cold climates - we do

Gary

Most excellent!

 

[Motor7]

Hey @Motor7

I read you are going to draw on this diagram with your crayons 👍.

I actually think you could do getter from scratch.

The first electrical design thing to pencil out is a load chart 12vdc & 120vac. Any idea of that item?

I have all the appliances here, I just need to go through them and write the loads down. Homework to do for sure....

 

[Motor7]

The IceCo fridge says .545kwh(24hrs), so converting that to amp hrs I get 45.417.....so that number should be divided by 24(if it''s running 24 hrs a day)? Sooo, 1.89 ah average?

 

[Motor7]

Oh this stuff hurts me pea brain,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Motor7]

Larry, I like the 12ga extension wiring idea...I will go with 10ga to the roof a/c. Much better than stiffy romex.

 

[Motor7]

I'm a big fan of the wiring diagrams and other advice at Explorist.Life - I used those and almost all Victron products to build a system that I really don't have to worry about in terms of manually switching anything, etc. I agree with the advice above that a B2B (DC/DC) charger is probably a better idea than an isolator. I also agree with @Winston that a sophisticated inverter/charger like the Victron Multiplus types might prevent you from having to switch your HWH from (direct?) shore power to your inverter and back...was that just because the inverter isn't large enough for the HWH? As long as it's appropriately sized, I think any brand inverter/charger would simply your system and operations by passing through shore power when connected and charging the batteries while on shore power without you having to do anything other than plug into shore power. Well worth the investment in terms of the simplification and convenience for your overall system IMO.

Camper Wiring Diagram w/ 3000w Inverter & 600-1200w Solar

3000w Inverter, 600-1200w Solar, Battery to Battery Charger, Shore Power, 600Ah Lithium Batteries

www.explorist.life

I think I want to keep the shore power and solar separate. In other words, shore power comes in, then to a breaker box, then a feed for the roof air, one for the HWH and a couple of outlets. To use the HWH on the inverter, yes I would have to unplug from the 120v outlet and plug into the 2,000 watt inverter....no biggie. Everything else will run off solar/alternator/batteries. I just think it is a little cheaper to go this way and simpler for the smaller van applications.
In the larger Class A's and C we have owned, yes, I agree with having everything switching automatically, since those have a lot more going on with the electrical side. I will check out the Explorist Life...thanks!

 

[Motor7]

Dog House, that's pretty much it except for [not]connecting the inverter to the fuse panel.

Wobagger, that is one reason I do not want the inverter connected to shore power. My inverter is an older Kisae 2,000watt, so I don't even know if it has automatic switching capability.
I think the dc-dc charger in the Kisae DMT1250 will take care of the proper voltage to the LifePo4's?

Kisae Technology DMT1250 - Inverter Supply

Shop for Kisae Technology DMT1250 at Inverter Supply for best prices online. Kisae Technology DMT1250, Kisae Technology, DMT1250, Smart DC to DC Battery Charger, Kisae Battery Chargers

www.invertersupply.com

 

[Motor7]

That brings up another question on grounding. Shore power to breaker panel, breaker to a/c, breaker to 2 wall outlets(20amp). Does this only use the ground supplied from shore power, or does a ground get bonded to the van? I read something on this a couple of years ago, but can't remember the proper way to do it.

 

[Motor7]

OK, I am ordering the DMT1250 and the DMTRM1201 remote dislplay. from InverterSupply.com....do I need the Kisae thermometer cable for the LifePo if I am going to put heating pads under them?

What size fuse from Alt to B2B?
What size fuse/breaker from B2B to battery?
What size fuse/breaker from battery to Inverter?

I think Blue Sea is recommended for all the fuses/breakers.

Sorry for all the questions, I need to let the Nespresso machine coll down

 

[Motor7]

It may do so, when charging off shore power. But when charging off the alternator you will never reach full charge without a DC-DC converter.

The main source of charging will be the 310 watt solar panel. Alternator charging will be secondary/supplemental. So, is the DC2DC in the Kisae abysmally weak?

DC to DC Battery Charger Series
KISAE DMT-1250 Smart Battery Chargers

In-vehicle optimal charging and maintenance for marine and RV deep-cycle batteries.

• Dual Input Capability: MPPT Solar Input & Auxiliary Input.
• Multi-stage battery charger ensures that your batteries are charged the way battery manufacturers recommend.
• Small footprint, extremely compact design.
• Saves money by maximizing battery life.
• System Diagram | Download

Features and Benefits

• DC to DC Battery Charger
• Microprocessor controlled multi-stage charging algorithms (bulk, absorption, float) for gel, flooded and AGM batteries and equalization for flooded batteries
• Silent mode for quiet operation
• MPPT solar regulator allows you to provide maximum power from solar panels to battery
• Optional remote allows you to view system information