[RV8R]

I believe my Buddy wired in a “Progressive Dynamics”. Seemed decent ,,, came with pigtails so crimp connections on the 12vdc panel side ( which I do not like ). But IIRC, had a good converter charger & had a “Lithium button” for that chemistry that is handy

PD4045LIK-PD4045KV 45 Amp Lithium Ion Inteli-Power Mighty Mi

 

[RV8R]

On another note ,,, My other Friend’s recent rebuild ,,, In basically rewiring his entire van, but keeping most of the wires 120vac & 12vdc at the same length ( I had to splice 3 12vdc lines that grew in length ), we basically pulled the power center out of the original location by “disconnecting the load side” & left the panels wired up.

When complete & re energized, I was getting a “cross feed” on circuits 1 & 2. As “negative is home run ,, but common” it had to be on the positive side. At first I thought his motherboard had gone bad, but started to look at the fuses & with in 1 minute found this;

If you can’t quite figure out the problem, let me direct your attention to circuits 1 thru 6 & specifically 1 & 2. You will see cross contamination of several “strands” of wire touching between 1 & 2 ( pump & fridge ).

So I turned to my Buddy ( because I installed these wires originally & they were perfect ), & I asked him, “Who did you have working on your van up in the Yukon?” Just the RV Tech Shop that redid some plumbing & winterized it”, he said.

I was livid 👿👿. Then I handed him my surgical instruments I use to install virgin factory twist wire into such connections & fully in ,,, not 1/2 way out. I asked him what the labour rate was & @ north of $100/hr I expect way way better than that. Plus ,,, all he had to do to kill the circuit is pull the fuse ( or turn the big red switch off ) ,,, I have no idea why that RV Tech pulled the positive wires out ,,, but that quality of work is tragically crappy. Hey @83Grumman that Tech is a “Professional” 😳.

In reference ,,, this is how an Amateur ,,, “me” performed the original;

Regardless of all this @Motor7 ,,, I prefer this style 12vdc board / panel over the “pigtails” & crimps.

 

[RV8R]

I appreciate all the responses and info...it is a bit overwhelming at times, though. Hat's off to the pro's here that do this stuff in their sleep 😎

Looking at this dc to dc/solar chager:

Amazon.com: KISAE Technology DMT1250 Abso DC-DC Charger, 50A : Automotive

Buy KISAE Technology DMT1250 Abso DC-DC Charger, 50A: Battery Chargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Rated voltage on my 310watt panel is 37.2v....and I am having trouble finding the input voltage of the Kisae & Renogy.
Victron 12/12/30 says 8-17v.

I like the Kisae ,,, do not have one, but if Inwanted a DC2DC that one is @ the tip of my list ,,, Why ? ,,, I read the manuals & it is very “User Programable”.

Not sure of the dual “alternator/solar” function, but it can be used as a DC2DC only as far as I know.

 

[RV8R]

What is the consensus on LifePo4 batteries in really cold weather? Heating pads, or a temp monitor to turn off charging...or both? Our van could very well end up in Manitoba....in January🥶

It depends on how you want to use your van & the factors.

I use AGMs as my electric needs are minimal & I am often in sub freezing temps. Not all AGMs & Lithiums are equal.

My AGMs are good anywhere I would want & how I want to use them - temperature wise. But my systems are basic & do not need the “Pros” of lithium due to the “Propane I use.

SOK factory heating batteries have “reportedly” had issues, so even though @GaryBIS seemingly has heating pad envy, think he is lucky to have created his own heating pad system;

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/sok-bms-incorrect-abc-bms-on-app-store.51920/

Also if you buy a Victron BM712 Smart ,,, it has “relays” capable of temperature controlled ,,, as far as I know.

If you want to know more about “Lithium” & Cold 🥶🥶 ,,, Check out this thread & site in general ( you might see some familiar “handles” 😁 );

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/upgrade-off-grid-cabin-in-cold-climate.54764/

 

[RV8R]

310 watts of solar, 2,000 watt inverter, 2- 100amp LifePo4 batteries.

I think I want shore power separate from the 12v solar system to power the roof air and a few outlets just for simplicity. The biggest power hog will be the Eccotemp 2.5 water heater with it's 1440 watt element, so it will plug into inverter when rolling, and plug into shore power outlet when at campgrounds.

I have looked at a bunch of wiring diagrams, and have not found one to match what I think I need. I am confident doing general electrical work, have put in two independent solar systems on other campers, but am not too confident on building a system from scratch.

So far I have:
150 amp battery isolator
12 led puck lights
2 led reading lamps
2 dimmers for pucks
Progressive Dynamics Power control Center fuse box
12v iceco fridge/freezer
diesel parking heater
Renogy Voyager 20amp charge controller
inline fuses & disconnects
10ga Anchor wire for solar panels
4ga for batteries

As to the Battery to Battery charger....what size? They start at 20amp, and go up to 60+amp. Bigger is most likely better/faster, but the larger one's seem to be overkill?

This diagram is close....good enough to work with/modify?

Ok, go slow with me...."Mongo not no how 2 spel,...Die AH Gram"

Hey @Motor7

I read you are going to draw on this diagram with your crayons 👍.

I actually think you could do getter from scratch.

The first electrical design thing to pencil out is a load chart 12vdc & 120vac. Any idea of that item?

 

[RV8R]

I have all the appliances here, I just need to go through them and write the loads down. Homework to do for sure....

Yup ,,, The Homework 👍.

Post #67 here;

If you use the spreadsheet program “Excel” you can download this spreadsheet program file & plug in your loads etc.

I uploaded the file after changing it to an .pdf extension ,,, but you can download it & rename the file with a .xls & it works with “Excel”. I do n know how or The Forum does not accept .xls files.

Solar Panel, electrical system, batteries - Van build Canada

Hi @ramp Here is an under chassis tank from @Curious Campervans https://curiouscampervans.com/products/promaster-undermount-water-tank-15-gallon I agree with @GaryBIS on the Maxxair fan energy ,,, I think you are way high on the energy usage. Regarding your “Load Chart” ,,, I am following it...

www.promasterforum.com

It is really an extremely simple spreadsheet that uses the following equations;

Volts * Amps = Watts

Watts * Hours = Watt Hours or (Whrs)

And maybe an inverter efficiency % ,,, like ( 1000W / 90% efficiency = 1,111 Watts Needed )

All “Theoretical Values”


Regarding “Inverters” ,,, If you design a system that needs them to be on standby ( I am considering it for my Cabin Fridge ), you have to allow for standby energy to be wasted. In my case 20W per hour @ standby mode assuming 16 hrs out of the 24 hr period = 320Whrs. The current 12vdc Fridge I have is “rated” @ 21Ahrs per day @ 12 volts or 250Ahrs per day.

So just the 16 hrs per day of inverter standby energy is 128% of the fridge energy used 😳 ,,, for me that is significant. Also ,,, And this is just a big leap/assumption on my part & would only matter if attempting to keep your van cool in the summertime ,,, what happens to that wasted electrical energy?? ,,, I (non-researched) assume it turns into heat.

 

[RV8R]

The IceCo fridge says .545kwh(24hrs), so converting that to amp hrs I get 45.417.....so that number should be divided by 24(if it''s running 24 hrs a day)? Sooo, 1.89 ah average?

So ,,, it might math like this

545Whrs @ say running 10hrs per day so 54.5W when running with a battery voltage supplied @ fridge of 12.5 volts ,,, so might be 4.36 amps while running.

or it could be

545Whrs @ 14hrs per day so 38.9W when running @ voltage of 12.7 ,,, 3.0 amps when running.

 

[RV8R]

Oh this stuff hurts me pea brain,,,,,,,,,,

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0053/1536/2906/files/ICECO_VL_PRO_Single_Zone_144c913b-707a-49e1-a37d-050bfe10aa37.pdf?v=1662365587

Part of the “Problem” is @Motor7 the “Manufactuers” are not really “forthright” with the performance specifications. So you have to search around & research & make assumptions in regards to “All Sorts of Things Electrically”.

It is my pet pev. But in the end, just design your system not to run @ 100% ,,, & you should be fine.

What model fridge you got ??

 

[RV8R]

12vdc Electrical Wire - For Distribution;

I buy a 100’ roll of 12/2 marine grade wire & run all my distribution from panel to load off that ,,, Unless I need bigger wire due to voltage drop or long circuits with critical loads.

Buy Ancor Duplex Cable by the Spool in Canada Binnacle.com

ca.binnacle.com

Ancor Marine Grade Electrical Standard Duplex Tinned Boat Cable, Wire - Amazon Canada

Ancor Marine Grade Electrical Standard Duplex Tinned Boat Cable in Wire.

www.amazon.ca

 

[RV8R]

View attachment 94602

Recently rebuilt my first van for my buddy. We eliminated the Pos Bus which literally had two wires attached to it 🙄.

In that configuration, I would be tempted to attach a Blue Sea “Dual” terminal fuse (one to panel & one to the inverter)

That breaker could be changed to a fuse also. In fact, I would be tempted to have that double fuse holder referenced above & one fuse going to the 12vdc panel sized for the panel/wire & I would place the charge wire from the Kisae & the inverter on the other higher amp fuse.


Another note; That “Smart Shunt” ,,, I believe it is well worth the additional cost to go with the BM712 over the smart shunt. It just does way more, including programmable relays. Not that I use all the “bells & whistles”, but they are there incase of future heeds without replacing the equipment.

 

[RV8R]

Dog House, that's pretty much it except for [not]connecting the inverter to the fuse panel.

Wobagger, that is one reason I do not want the inverter connected to shore power. My inverter is an older Kisae 2,000watt, so I don't even know if it has automatic switching capability.
I think the dc-dc charger in the Kisae DMT1250 will take care of the proper voltage to the LifePo4's?

Kisae Technology DMT1250 - Inverter Supply

Shop for Kisae Technology DMT1250 at Inverter Supply for best prices online. Kisae Technology DMT1250, Kisae Technology, DMT1250, Smart DC to DC Battery Charger, Kisae Battery Chargers

www.invertersupply.com

yup the Kisae 1250 can charge @ a max of 50 amps ,,, so you can user set the stages to match your lithium required charge profile.

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf

the inverter should be connected to the battery terminal (pos) & shunt (neg). Probably too much current to go thru your panel. I don’t have the specs on your inverter, but I am assuming your 12vdc panel can’t handle the amps thru it your inverter needs. In rough terms you knock a zero off the watts & that is the amps ,,, so 2000W inverter is a 2000 ,,, 200 amp load ,,, the max load rating of my 12vdc panel is 30 amps ,,, or so it is fused.


@Motor7 ,,, If you pick out ( solidify ) all your components ( equipment & loads ), & complete a “load chart” I am convinced “The Forum” can do a pretty great job of helping you thru the “Design”.

 

[RV8R]

OK, I am ordering the DMT1250 and the DMTRM1201 remote dislpay. from InverterSupply.com....do I need the Kisae thermometer cable for the LifePo if I am going to put heating pads under them?

What size fuse from Alt to B2B? Well check with Kisae ,,, but a 50amp max load ,,, I would think 60 to 70 Amps ,,, I would think the “70 amp upfitter fuse would be good enough - size your wire for the 70 amp fuse if that is your choice”.

What size fuse/breaker from B2M to battery? Kisae

What size fuse/breaker from battery to Inverter? Depends on the inverter load ,,, what inverter are you going with? Best to install the inverter as close as possible to the “lithium house batteries”.

I think Blue Sea is recommended for all the fuses/breakers. If you are talking 12vdc ( I like Blue Sea ). No need for breakers. I use a 4 position switch for my electrical installations. With a little imagination they work out great for me & the cost of them is marginally more than a two position switch.

Sorry for all the questions, I need to let the Nespresso machine coll down

 

[RV8R]

I have not dove into it ,,, but @el Jefe or @nebulight probably know this

I believe the Victron BM712 can be setup to control a relay based upon battery temperature ( I think it is measured @ the positive terminal ).

BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy

Communicate wirelessly between products and simplify system installation and enhance performance using the BMV-712 Smart. Find a dealer now.

www.victronenergy.com

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/BMV-712_Smart/9172-Manual_BMV_and_SmartShunt-pdf-en.pdf

@Motor7 ,,, If these manuals & equipment seem daunting ,,, it actually pretty easy to wire up. You are in good hands with the collective knowledge for such things on “The Forum”.

 

[RV8R]

I think wowbagger might be confused and doesn't understand the Kisae is a DC-DC. You will be fine with the 1250 and it will take good care of your Li batteries.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

I think the Kisae 1250 is a decent DC2DC charger ,,, It will get you 775W @ 50 amps from the alternator 👍

If you did connect your solar panels to it you can get a max of 600W but they also show 500W (input ,,, so there might be a slight loss of output) ,,, so there is that ,,, for a van - PV Array 14.5 to 50 Vdc & 30 amps is also pretty decent. That allows a good combination/ selection & that can be very helpful in roof layout configurations to have options.

I would not hesitate to use it as a dual “alternator / solar” providing there is a system to turn off the solar panels & the system allows that ( PV input breaker switch maybe - the type used in panel combiner boxes ).

Maybe @GaryBIS would know if utilizing as a dual “alternator / solar” is flawless or if it has limitations?

 

[RV8R]

Hi,
I use the Kisae DMT 1250 DC to DC chager. It is a full capability DC to DC charger that uses multi stage charging and is very programmable to get the charge curve you want. It does this for charging from either the solar panels or the alternator.
I think its a good unit that is well designed and they have good customer support - how often do you get a 3 page letter from customer support explaining things in even more detail than my boring posts here

One little thing I like about it is that you can adjust its max charge rate down from the 50 amps. I have mine adjusted down to 40 amps, which is plenty for me and the lower max current makes life a bit easier for both the Kisae unit and the alternator.

If you are looking for a place to buy it, I used these guys and it was a good experience with a good price. I'm not associated with them in any way, but its nice to see a "Mom and Pop" company do a good job.

Gary

If ever went “Lithium” I would buy a Kisae 1250 in an instant.

👍 on the customer support.

Your posts never bore me 😁 ,,, Complete Opposite !!

 

[RV8R]

The only place you need 10ga is from the shore power pedestal to the breaker in the PD panel.

Your shore power will go: 30a receptacle, 10awg tt30 to 30a twist lock extension cord, shore power inlet, 10ga wire to 30a breaker in PD panel. With the loads you have 50' will be fine.

For 120vac; I use 10/3 white/black/green marine from my Shore Power to Main Breaker 30amp & 12/3 white/black/green for the distribution 120vac

As @dog_house stated ,,, solid house wiring like Romex will lable it 12/2 & is white/black/bare copper for ground

 

[RV8R]

Hi RV,
I normally leave the Kisae hooked up to both alternator charging and solar charging, and let it decide which it wants to use. As far as I know, it can only use one at a time. I believe that it prioritizes the alternator if the van is running, but if I want it to use solar, I can just turn off the disconnect switch on the alternator charging and it will switch to solar.
Not sure if this answers the question?

Gary

Yes mostly thanks 👍.

For me, if it auto prioritizes the alternator (highest charge rate), that would work for me ,,, thus engine on/solar off & engine off/solar on. The engine running is the control switch 😁 ,,, If I understand correctly.

No need for a disconnect from the solar them (for how I would like it to run).

Thanks @GaryBIS !!

 

[RV8R]

OK, you guys are killing me. The Kisae inverter is model # IC122055. Looking up the specs, ....

IC122055 – Kisae Technology Inc

I see this:
Features include:

• True sinewave output to run motor loads and sensitive electronics without hum or buzz.
• Multi-stage charger to charge your deep-cycle batteries quickly and efficiently to manufacturer’s recommendations.
• Integrated transfer switch to switch seamlessly from shore power to battery power.
• Ideal for running appliances & consumer electronics the way they were designed to be.

Soooo, now I am vacillating on using it to its full potential, or by-passing some neat features.........{sigh}

Here is the Manual;

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/manual_ic121040_ic122055.pdf

55 amp charger ,,, but does it have a “Lithium” setting?

Not trying to spend your money @Motor7 ,,, and I’m not sure of the USA price on the Victron Multi 2000VA ,,might be a better choice for you?

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-REV-09-EN.pdf

 

[RV8R]

Negative BM Shunt;

If you are installing one it goes here;

 

[RV8R]

Kisae 1250 from Solar PV

I thought the Kisae had (red & black) input for solar ??