Ram Promaster Forum banner

House Battery Solution

14K views 40 replies 19 participants last post by  Dane 
#1 ·
Is anyone interested in an ArkPak battery case with inverter for your house battery? In addition to the ArkPak, you need to add an AGM battery (up to 100 amp hour Group 31). There are terminals on the ArkPak to connect to your starting battery and alternator to be charged while you are driving. It also allows for solar cell charging.

You can plug your 12 volt devices and 110 volt appliances into the power unit. This battery pack will meet most people's needs for power on a weekend getaway.

I really see the potential in this product, so I am considering becoming a dealer. I need to buy two units to get started, and I am ready for mine. How about you? Let me know if you are interested in one for your van, and I can drop ship an ArkPak to your location!

ArkPak Portable Power Generator Review

https://youtu.be/uH4RXeH8b8Q
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#3 ·
Is anyone interested in an ArkPak battery case with inverter for your house battery? In addition to the ArkPak, you need to add an AGM battery (up to 100 amp hour Group 31). There are terminals on the ArkPak to connect to your starting battery and alternator to be charged while you are driving. It also allows for solar cell charging.

You can plug your 12 volt devices and 110 volt appliances into the power unit. This battery pack will meet most people's needs for power on a weekend getaway.

I really see the potential in this product, so I am considering becoming a dealer. I need to buy two units to get started, and I am ready for mine. How about you? Let me know if you are interested in one for your van, and I can drop ship an ArkPak to your location!

ArkPak Portable Power Generator Review

https://youtu.be/uH4RXeH8b8Q

It does seem to take a lot of the hassle out of battery power in a van, but Amazon says that this only has a 6 amp charger. A 100 AH battery discharged to 50% would take at least 10 hours to charge. Some AGMs have a recommended minimum charging of 0.2C (eg a 100AH Concorde would need 20 amps)


What battery are you planning to use?
 
#5 ·
You can charge up your AGM battery faster via the Anderson plug on the ArkPak - it bypasses the smart charging system. Charging this way, it is recommended to use a VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) because the Anderson plug if left on too long will over-charge your brand new battery. The VSR will protect your battery from being overcharged.
 
#10 ·
Hi,
I'm not seeing how the VSR would protect the house battery from overcharging?

My understanding is that the VSR is just a relay that closes at about 13.7 volts and opens at about 12.7 volts, so its closed when the van engine is running and open when the engine is off. Don't see how this would protect from overcharging?

http://www.jgtech.com/pdf/VSR_instructions.pdf

Gary
 
#6 ·
Simple and cheap is what most will meet most weekend warriors weekend power needs with the ArkPak ($400 retail plus whatever AGM battery that you put in). If I lived in the van (I don't), I could understand building a power system. If you ask a van conversion or RV center to do it for you, they will charge $2500 or more for a house battery system that can be charged by the alternator, and use shore power. I like the prices I am looking at for the ArkPak plus a battery way better!
 
#9 ·
From the FAQ you need a qualified auto electrician to hook up a dual battery system which would be the vsr, fuses and proper gauge wire. If you want to add solar charge to this you would need a what kind of electrician.
Here's a cheaper and simple alternative, battery included, of course to add dual battery and solar you would still need a pro if your not up to it.
http://www.tripplite.com/line-inter...-extended-run-accepts-batteries~OMNIVS1500XL/
 
#7 ·
$400 plus a battery in NOT cheap! Simple perhaps, but as I said before, you can get a lot more for a lot less by building your own system. It's not rocket science and well documented instructions have been posted here and all over the web.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Whoa! boys you are both right. I will use a key activated solenoid, an MPPT solar controller, and carry an AGM charger and inverter, all very cheap, old school and reliable. Others will benefit from the Arkpack as a plug and play unit, no electrical knowledge needed and can be set out when the van is not a home. Lastly I can see having the conversion folks do both the work and thinking for you and paying for their time and expertise. Lets agree that any of these get the job done and time and money spent is our own business. Having lots of time and little money I have my choice made.... I'm going with KOV's idea
 
#12 ·
First an open mind and common sense.(yes I am guilty of being hard headed at times).

I knew nothing about solar power a year and a half ago. And how to hook it up to extra battery's and such.
Now I am running the system with no problems what so ever. It is easy.

Thanks to everyone that posted there set ups and how to. This is what helped me:).
 
#15 ·
There are circuits in the alternator that are designed to keep the van battery from overcharging. These regulators, in the alternator, control how much charge voltage goes to the van battery.

When a VSR or relay, or simple switch puts the house battery in parallel with the van battery, the alternator recognizes a battery in need of charging (as in.. the combination of the van and house battery) and it provides charging voltage and current, until the battery(s) are both up the the preset voltage that the alternator wants to see. Then the alternator just maintains a charge at the preset voltage.

So, when the van is running, the VSR notes that the alternator voltage to the van battery is above the lower limit and connects the aux battery. If you turn the key off, the aux battery is disconnected to keep the 12V accessories connected to the aux battery from dragging down the van battery.

Most VSRs do not control overcharging, the alternator circuitry does.

Solar cells, on the other hand, do not have regulators in the panels, so a charge regulator is needed to keep from overcharging.

Ed
 
#16 · (Edited)
Hi,
That all seems right to me. -- although I think the VSR does not turn on until the upper (13.7) volts is reached.

The thing I've been wondering about is if the van battery is a flooded lead acid (FLA) battery and the house battery is an AGM. The AGM wants a different charging voltage and finish voltage than the FLA -- I wonder if the difference is enough to damage or reduce the life of the AGM? That is, can you charge an FLA van battery and an AGM house battery off the van alternator with acceptable results?

The built in 120VAC ArkPak charger can be set for either FLA or AGM. They also sell an optional charger that plugs into a 12 volt socket on the car and charges the ArkPak battery -- not clear to me if this has different charging logic for AGM and FLA?

Gary
 
#17 ·
Correct Gary.

I have AGM batteries for the house and LA for starting, etc. I charged the AGM off the alternator this winter (when they needed it and before installing the solar) but I tried to keep the switch off unless they really dropped low. I do have a dedicated AGM charger thats only works when plugged into the grid now and the solar charger is set to AGM so I should be ok. I did charge the AGM's off the alternator for a few months, continually. with no observable harm but only time will tell and it's not recommended as you point out.
 
#22 ·
@Gary maybe you can answer these questions but meanwhile have emailed arkpak usa for some tech specs to address specifics re max charging and the charger unit ($225) vs the container unit ($399) - will post when get info - but considering arkpak offer 3 modes of charging (alternator, solar, and shore - which is very nice and maybe quite important flexibility) - then the price is not that much (and way less than paying some outfitter thousands). A good Morningstar solar controller is about $175. Then add meter, ... The multi-stage charger is also very nice especially for AGM batteries. Seems like all in one charger unit makes it easy for DIY, while container makes it even easier for total electrical moron.

btw - pricing discussion is relative to copper cable prices ( just paid $4/ft for #2 wires - bit high but NAPA did the lug crimping, etc
 
#23 ·
You can do much better buying welding cable by searching online.

Why do you want to pay some outfitter anything, much less thousands? I did my complete conversion with all top equipment for the grand sum of $3626! That includes everything starting with a bare van to totally finished camper. Cabinets, insulation, appliances, full solar with two AGM batteries, two jump seats, running water, windows, paneling, EVERYTHING! This isn't rocket science with a little research and simple skills anyone can do the same.

Believe in yourself;)
 
#28 · (Edited)
One point I think was missed here.
Car battery's are rarely drained to 50%_80% of their capacity, it is normally a very small discharge and the alternator is designed to charge it back up without staging, at least a couple of decades ago when I was an automotive tech that's the way it worked. I assume the electronics have changed but the way it works hasn't.
When we use house batteries and discharge them so much (deep cycle) the way they need to be charged back up is much different, bulk charge, bulk charge of up to 14.8v or 14.9v, maybe even 15v + if it's very cold, then normal charge, then float charge. Your alternator is never going to do this, they typically maintain a constant charge voltage of 13.8-14.2. An AGM Deep Cycle or Lead Acid Deep Cycle, needs the stage charging to maintain its health over a long period.
Now will your alternator keep it charged, yes somewhat. For how long is the question. After a period that same battery will not be fully charged and my opinion is it will never be fully charged using the alternator unless you never run it down 50% or more
If my facts are incorrect please correct me, as I stated its been many many years since I worked in the industry
 
#36 ·
I agree with you. However, I think it is easy to overthink this stuff. For 3 years I have run a deep cycle battery in the back of my van, and it has been charged almost exclusively from the alternator. I have constantly expected the deep cycle battery to be diminished in capacity. Every time I have it tested, it tests good.

In upfitting my new Promaster, I went a different route. I bought this unit, that should be delivered tomorrow.

http://magnumenergy.com/ms-series/

I got the MS2812 which puts out 2800 watts pure sine wave power. I will charge off the alternator when the engine is running. I will have a socket on the outside of the van where I can plug in to shore power. As soon as shore power is plugged in, it switches everything in the van directly to shore power, and starts to charge the battery bank. It has a 5 stage charger. I plan to plug the van up every night to top off the batteries, and I will run a small heater in the van at night during the winter to keep all my machines warm.

-t
 
#30 ·
Bconno,
I also think you are correct but many of us have an additional factor. Solar charging with an MPPT controller that can be adjusted or set for AGM normal charge and float. The alternator and the vsr with the added input from solar can handle the bulk and normal charge and the solar (once the vsr switches out the coach battery or the van is stopped) will float charge depending on the controller. Is it a perfect solution? No but better than relying on the alternator exclusively. BTW a battery/solar install can be easily designed to fully charge in one day and discharge less than 50 percent overnight to let this charging happen and increase the longevity of even deep cycle batteries.
 
#31 ·
Agreed with you and that will be my setup as well.
Wanted to clarify for those that are reading and maybe have less understanding when it was stated the alternator worked fine. It was a short term solution and it probably did work fine but if more load was placed on the system for a longer period of time I think one would start to notice a battery bank that wasn't holding charge.
 
#32 ·
The Ford Transit offers dual AGM batteries which are charged by the alternator.

I know 3-stage charging is superior and allows batteries to last longer, but how much longer? If you replace them more often, what is the cost of buying additional batteries in the future versus investing more up front?

And then there is a combination approach where much of the charging can be done with a 3-stage inverter/charger from shore power and only use the alternator when needed. How would occasional alternator charging affect battery life? Without knowing costs it's hard for me to guess which approach to pursue.
 
#33 ·
I have read that some on off-grid solar systems (particularly in winter when insolation is low) use a generator to bulk charge their batteries up to 80% which is when the absorb mode starts, then they switch over to absorb with solar to finish off the batteries. Depending on ones driving/parking habits that might work both with solar or shore power.


What harms a battery are things like sulfating which damages the plates and comes from having a battery that sits in a discharged state too long. If the alternator is charging the battery from low to "fuller" it can only be doing the battery good.
 
#34 ·
sadly I never got a response from Arkpak re charging amps and charger vs pak - won't buy from a company that doesn't give answers to product questions. I guess the DIY van market is not important to them.

From other posts in this thread, it sounds like charging from a Pac-200 isolator without a special agm controller setting won't hurt an AGM deep-cycle battery ? Then for shore power we'll stick with our trusty Schumacher charger and for solar go with a Morningstar.
 
#39 ·
Battery art and science

Hello to all please take this for what it's worth. I have extensive experience (and I'm opinionated too) with many different battery banks, voltages, chemistries and chargers having just ended an electrical career with the Washington State Ferry System. We had gone to AGM batteries for most uses, deep cycle and diesel starting particularly when the existing batteries had been FLA. Don't have enough long term experience with Li-Pos to know all their ins and outs but for Lead Acid whether they are FLA, AGM or even Gel the one thing that makes the biggest difference is the level of discharge.

Every time battery voltage drops below 12 volts some life is lost and discharge to 11 volts or less makes for an exponentially shorter life span. The charging system seems to make little difference as long it is not cooking the battery or allowing it to sit for prolonged periods below 12.8 volts. More amp hours (more or bigger batteries) discharged less give a longer life.

In many cases it is better to not seperate the house and start batteries if you only have 1 or 2 extra so that whole bank is discharged less. And in that case it is better that the batteries are a more or less matched set.

You can't depend on automotive type batteries to have much difference plate structure and construction between "starting" and "deep cycle". That is more meaningfull in off grid systems with Trojans or Rolls batteries and the like.

If you want some more qualified information than this burnt out old marine electrician's opinion search for Battery University online.
 
#41 ·
papab I believe that is correct and if memory serves you are talking about 12.6 volts or so. With the Ferry system the batteries almost never went for even a day without being on charge. Because they were there to back up critical systems they were always changed out in 5 to 10 years or when someone decided to test the system and then didn't turn the charger back on and discharged them to about 1.8 volts per cell.

However I have a 8D Lifeline in my boat that gets down to maybe 12.6 volts for a day every once in a while (maybe 5 or 10 times a year) and it is still at about 80% capacity after 10 years.

Hope that is of some use.
 
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top