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If I hide a key fob on the van somewhere as a spare am I making the van more vulnerable to theft or break-in? In other words does the key fob proximity change security features? Other than the fact that someone could find the key.
 

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I was thinking of one to when out camping. If I loose the main key I am toast.
But can not post about it because........
If van is stolen then there will be problems with the insurance co. So I would not recommend it.
 

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Hacking into a vehicle via its remote is made easier when the remote is within range of the vehicle.

see: http://www.cnet.com/news/keyless-cars-vulnerable-to-hack-theft/

So if you do hide the fob on or near your van, wrap it in foil or a metal case. Same thing if you park near a door and hang your keys just inside the door--if the unshielded remote is still in range of your van, it can be hacked without the thief having actual possession of the remote.
 

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I occurred to me just now that "in proximity" would also include when you are sleeping in the van--another reason to have a handy metal box to stash the fob before you retire for the night.
 

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This news article has flaws. It is the PKES (Passive Keyless Entry and Start) systems that are easy to hack. As in no key to enter and no key to start. The Promaster you need to press a button on the remote to enter and need to insert key to start. You can read about it here
https://eprint.iacr.org/2010/332.pdf


Hacking into a vehicle via its remote is made easier when the remote is within range of the vehicle.

see: http://www.cnet.com/news/keyless-cars-vulnerable-to-hack-theft/

So if you do hide the fob on or near your van, wrap it in foil or a metal case. Same thing if you park near a door and hang your keys just inside the door--if the unshielded remote is still in range of your van, it can be hacked without the thief having actual possession of the remote.
 

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I don't hide keys anymore. I lock key inside van and keep dummy valet key on necklace with me at all times when surfing.
 

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This news article has flaws. It is the PKES (Passive Keyless Entry and Start) systems that are easy to hack. As in no key to enter and no key to start. The Promaster you need to press a button on the remote to enter and need to insert key to start. You can read about it here
https://eprint.iacr.org/2010/332.pdf
The flaw is that they show a picture of a uni-directional remote, which doesn't apply to proximity systems.

You are correct. The Promaster does not use a prox key. The danger of using one of your transponder keys as a hideaway, is the chance that someone would find it. If you do it, hide it well.

Dwight's solution is better. Hide one inside the the van, where it can be hidden better. If you must hide one on the outside of the van, use a mechanical key. It will only operate the the locks, but won't start the van. If you don't have one, go to any locksmith that cuts high-security keys, and tell them you want a non-chipped copy of your key.

-t
 

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Or for example, drill a hole in the sliding door rail and hanging into a padlock:
Simple. I like simple!

The back doors could be padlocked together from the inside. Anyone got a similar simple, elegant, fail-safe solution for the fronts (inside)?
 

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I was thinking of one to when out camping......
If van is stolen then......

If a Promaster in the forest is stolen, do the breaks make a squeal?

;)PP
 
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Here is my 2 cents...

All the extra locks are not going to leave you invulnerable. If someone wants to come in and steal possessions out of your van, they can just bust a window out of one of the front doors and crawl through even if you have a secure secondary lock on the doors.

There are 2 things you need to defend against: 1) unauthorized access to the van and it's internal contents. 2) actual theft of the van itself.

As far as theft of the van itself, the Promaster has a transponder system that is tough to crack, much more so than even the typical transponder systems in vehicles today. A thief would not be able to program a transponder to start the van, even if he had the aftermarket programmers that are available to security professionals now, he would have to have a dealer tool AND access to Internet dealer protocols that are only available to security professionals that have been vetted. If a thief has the technological ability to start your van, then you are dealing with a situation that is indefensible. If he wants it, he will take it. However, that is highly unlikely. Guys like that are stealing Lamborghinis. The second threat in the theft of the van itself, is a tow truck.

As for the first point. When trying to prevent access to the contents of the van, you are only as strong as your most vulnerable point? A thief has no qualms about breaking out your window.

What is your best defense against either vulnerability? IMO, it is a very good alarm system. You can even get one that will trip when someone tries to tow. That is what I will hang my hat on eventually. I wish my van had come with a factory alarm, but it didn't.

All this is immaterial if your van is indeed parked out in the woods somewhere, not within hearing distance of anyone. Even if you have your cargo area secured from the cab, a thief will knock your fancy locks off with a sledge hammer, and come right in. When your high-dollar alarm goes off, he will pop the hood and cut the wire to the horn, only because it is annoying him.

Security is all about minimizing risk. In the world we live in, there is no way to completely eliminate it, we can only minimize it. After all the efforts we might expend to secure our vans, some delinquent might happen along and put a match to it for no better reason than his bitterness, because he his lazy and not willing to work for something nice as we have.

A good alarm and good insurance is my recommendation to minimize risk.
 

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One word. It won't stop the Perp. but the police can go to where it is and catch them. Or leave your iPhone in it and use the App "find my iPhone" and go to were it is yourself.
 

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This is something that's foreign to me; I've never had a car/van messed with or stolen in any way. But it seems to me that no thief would be interested in a work van of any kind, at least in terms of stealing it to joyride in it. Tradesman vans are stuffed with valuable tools though, and it seems to me the only defense against that would be an inside cage, or not being able to see the contents to begin with. I would direct my efforts into a curtain or some cabinets, rather than worry that some cybercriminal is going to hack into the van.

That said, I gorilla taped the spare key to a secluded spot on the outside. It won't hinder a thief, but it will protect me from my own stupidity when I lock my keys in the van or accidentally lose my pants with the keys in them. Pants loss happens to me all the time! I am I the only one?
 

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Odd.... everyone around me makes sure I don't misplace my pants or are ever without them, shirt too.


On the messing with the van issue. I never have had any problem either but my daughter moved into an apartment when going to graduate school. She had just emptied the Subaru locked it (first time in a city!) and went inside and returned to the car in 10 minutes to find all the doors open, glove box open, trunk open, no alarms going off,no damage, and nothing missing as there wasn't even change in the glove box. 4 years later her Mom and I locked the keys in the same car at the grocery store in Vermont. It took the key guy from AAA 40 minutes to get in it. I joked that he should have gone to school in N Philly where even the street kids can get in in 10 minutes!
 

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I've always wondered about putting an inconspicuous screw or contact (or two) underneath a vehicle somewhere, insulated in an appropriate rubber grommet, that could be shorted with a coat hanger or coin to trip the door unlock mechanism in an emergency. Or maybe a fake trailer connect with a pair of contacts which could be shorted to unlock doors. Then hide an extra key inside somewhere. Any reason this couldn't be done?
 

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I actually did that with my garage door opener a long time ago. It worked really well. I should try it again on my new garage!
 

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I've always wondered about putting an inconspicuous screw or contact (or two) underneath a vehicle somewhere, insulated in an appropriate rubber grommet, that could be shorted with a coat hanger or coin to trip the door unlock mechanism in an emergency. Or maybe a fake trailer connect with a pair of contacts which could be shorted to unlock doors. Then hide an extra key inside somewhere. Any reason this couldn't be done?
In the PM, the door lock system is tricky.

Short of locking the van then throwing the key in an open window, I'm not sure how you lock the van with the keys in it!

In the process of adding a separate, non-Fiat remote to my PM (in addition to the one from the dealer, who didn't order the 2 remote option), I discovered an interesting quirk.

If you use a key to lock the van, the all-door-lock pushbutton in the dash won't unlock it.

So, if you use a key to lock, I haven't found a way to unlock with an electrical signal (conact short, etc)

Haven't tried using the factory remote to lock, then using the center dash pushbutton to unlock (yet)!
 

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Yeah, I know ... tricky is right. Seems like the owner's manual says something about the dash "all lock/unlock" button being disabled after locking from the outside. Maybe the driver's door button for the cargo doors too. But are you saying the PM can sense if the 2nd/extra keyfob is inside and won't allow the doors to lock at all? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure when I first took delivery of my van and drove it home I stopped along the way, got out and locked the doors. And I'm pretty sure I did not have both keys/fobs in my pocket ... which means one was left in the glove box with my sales documents, etc. (I'd go out and check this right now except my PM is 600 miles away.)

As far as I can see it would be pretty difficult to accidentally lock your keys in the PM. Maybe impossible.

But since the doors are physically unlocked by electric solenoids it should be *possible* to unlock by using a secret contact. It might take diodes, another hidden switch or a relay to isolate the solenoid(s), and perhaps not be worth the effort ... but possible. Historically, there have been a few times in my life when something like that could have saved me a lot of time, aggravation and $$$.

Taylor - you're absolutely correct!

Kip - Losing pants not a prob here. But a few days ago I got 40 miles from my motel room and realized my teeth were still "bathing" in a Styrofoam coffee cup on the room's bathroom vanity. Doh!! If it'd been pants I could have just stopped at a Walmart. (And probably wouldn't be the first person shopping in Walmart without pants.)

PMPondering - Little Cricket, what is the sound of one van clapping?

(BTW, after using my PM as a daily driver for the first 6 weeks of ownership I've been driving the Civic again for over a week ... maybe I should say "wearing the Civic". I'm enjoying the fuel economy, but I sure miss my big ol' van!)
 
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