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News article today: www.autonews.com

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles plans to eliminate diesel engines from all its passenger vehicles by 2022, amid a collapse in demand and spiraling costs for the powertrain, the Financial Times reported.

Under a four-year plan to be unveiled on June 1, the automaker will announce it intends to phase out the fuel type from the cars across its brands, the FT said, citing people familiar with the company strategy.

Fiat Chrysler declined to comment on the report.

FCA becomes the latest automaker to opt out of diesel after Toyota said it would likely not unveil another model with a diesel engine.

Diesel's dominance in Europe has fallen since Volkswagen Group's emissions scandal, which led to rising political opposition to the fuel and plans by several European cities to ban some diesel models from its streets.
 

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I can understand the reasoning. The current and future emissions requirements are making it harder and harder for diesels to be a logical choice. The complexity of the emissions systems is getting worse.

Let's hope they get their act in gear and start making some smaller displacement turbo and twin turbo engines with more than 6 speeds. I'd love to see a 2.5 litre twin turbo with a 9 speed in the Promaster. I know I'm dreaming but I'd love to see an actual 6 speed manual as well.
 

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There's also been a number of tax policy rejiggerings throughout Europe that no longer favor Diesel vehicles. In the past many European countries charged less taxes on your vehicle and fuel with Diesel. These incentives and better fuel economy offset the higher price of the engines and made Diesels much more popular than in the US where the tax policy is inverted. Factor in the Volkswagen emissions scandal and the rise of hybrids and EVs that get better fuel economy and low CO2 emissions, and Diesels don't look as attractive.
 

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A factor there are so many older polluting diesels which will run for a generation before the modern ones replace them that something must be done. Clean air (and low NOX) benefits everyone. What I am seeing is that the modern diesel is probably better emissions-wise than gas as it emits a much lower level of CO2 which we know is F’n up the climate. In a few years we may be looking at policies to encourage diesels (but EVs are more likely) due to the low emissions!
EVs transfer the pollution out of cities to the rural areas where power is produced. Here that might mean more coal soot, CO2, sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides in exchange for cleaner cities. The NOX result in ozone production too. I personally love to see vast wind farms with cattle grazing under them, desert vistas with PV plants and solar thermal collectors. It looks like progress to me. As we get more dense cities and larger percentages of the population living in them their political power will force all automobiles to a minimum. I know lots of younger folks and friends of my grandchildren that live in cities and their car brand is Uber.
Some genius (probably in Europe or Asia) will develop a way to get everything and everyone around in cities so we will see the end of owning a vehicle as a natural thing. Cutting down on older soot and NOX spewing diesel is just and interim patch.
 

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Just read in the news that the German high court ruled in favor of large German cities who want to ban diesels to reduce NOX. It surely can't be retroactive, given that 60% of the cars there are currently diesel, in addition to all the trucks. But it will definitely hasten the demise of German diesel vehicle production. That seems only fitting, since they invented the diesel in the first place.
 

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The fact that **** sapiens haven't colonized and scattered their kind through space kind of grates. It's a big place out there and we're still stuck on this rock, beautiful though it may be.

The fact that there's so much congestion in metropolitan areas really grates. Still using cars, requiring ever more and more car infrastructure, is not at all indicative of progress to me. I do like Tesla, but so little, so late, and so very d**n slow...

Getting rid of diesels? Ok. If people like putting lipstick on a pig, who am i to say otherwise?
 

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What I am seeing is that the modern diesel is probably better emissions-wise than gas as it emits a much lower level of CO2 which we know is F’n up the climate.
Can you cite your reference for this? Most of what I have read states that while late model cleaner diesels do produce slightly less Carbon Monoxide, they are much higher in Nitrous Oxide, Nitrous Dioxide and Nitric Oxide emissions. And while CO is bad for the planet, N2O, NO2 and NO are immediately more harmful to humans.

http://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241

Based on Euro 3 through Euro 6 standards, NOx emissions in diesels are twice what they are in gasoline engines.
 

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Diesel is not "much lower" in CO2. It's actually slightly higher per gallon. From US Energy Information Administration:

About 19.6 pounds of CO2 are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain fuel ethanol. About 12.7 pounds of CO2 are produced when a gallon of pure ethanol is combusted.

Burning a gallon of E10 produces about 17.6 pounds of CO2 that is emitted from the fossil fuel content. If the CO2 emissions from ethanol combustion are included, then about 18.9 pounds of CO2 are produced when a gallon of E10 is combusted.

About 22.4 pounds of CO2 are produced from burning a gallon of diesel fuel. Biodiesel fuel can be purchased in many states. Biodiesel fuel is sold with various amounts of biodiesel content. B20 is a commonly sold biodiesel fuel. B20 contains 20% biodiesel and 80% petroleum diesel fuel. Burning a gallon of B20 results in the emission of about 17.9 pounds of CO2 that is emitted from the fossil fuel content.
So, the only way to claim lower CO2 emissions for diesel vehicles is higher mpg. Based on the above numbers diesel would have to be at least 20% better mpg just to break even on CO2. Gasoline-electric hybrid mpg often exceeds diesel mpg, so hybrid would be a much better return on investment from an emissions perspective.
 

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Good information, thanks. Sadly our vans burn B5 not B20. Similar diesel to gas fuel combustion ratios give the diesel a 140% advantage but often a diesel is less cylinders and less displacement so the same vehicle burning diesel in its smaller engine will get 150% or more miles per gallon advantage as the Promaster 4 cylinder 3L diesel does over the larger displacement 3.6L V6 gas engine. This does result in “lower” CO2 if not “much lower”, and your point is well taken. If B20 was the diesel fuel then the “much lower” would apply for sure. I’ll be more careful using that term in the future. Your point about hybrids could apply to diesel vehicles with electric assist, which with much smaller engines to produce a diesel-electric hybrid that got far better mileage than a gas-electric hybrid. I appreciate your citing a reliable source to support your good points. Those who asked for a citation now have it.
The current negative reaction to diesel will pass as the science and real world experience influence decision makers. The fall out from VW has soured everyones attitude and articles about banning older sooty and NOX producing diesels is promoting a good idea. The banning is part good science but part punishment in my opinion. However banning modern complying clean and low NOX producing diesels which can help with CO2 emissions as well is not in our best interest. We probably should limit gas vehicle access to cities in favor of plug-in electrics and perhaps plug-in hybrids as they exist today.
Research done prior to 2015 or so and much done recently favor gas because they are not using the most modern diesel vehicles, that is misleading at best. Here is an interesting article:
https://phys.org/news/2017-07-diesel-gas.html
 

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If we use similar 1/2-ton pickups as comparison, it appears that in highway driving the difference between gas and diesel in fuel economy ratings is roughly 25 versus 30 MPG, or about 20% improvement. That's in the range for RAM, and consistent with Ford and GM expectations for 2019 diesel 1/2-ton pickups.

Granted the RAM diesel can tow more than the Penstar V6, as will the Ford F-150 with diesel versus 2.7L Eco-boost, but the gas engines have more power than the diesels for everyday driving.

Gasoline engines have gotten a lot more efficient than they were before; and while diesels are still very efficient, their relative improvent hasn't been as much. This has closed the gap in fuel economy.
 

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Fiat Chrysler Automobiles plans to eliminate diesel engines from all its passenger vehicles by 2022, amid a collapse in demand and spiraling costs for the powertrain, the Financial Times reported.
In re-reading this, I noticed this announcement is for passenger vehicles.

The Ducato's a truck, right? Might be a little hope for diesel Promasters after all.
 

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That's the way I read it too. Mercedes made the same announcement not long ago, and it said cars because diesels represent something like 2 or 3 percent of total. As far as I know, Sprinters will still have diesel option, although they will soon have gasoline engines also.
 

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Gasoline is a hazardous byproduct of cracking crude into truly useful compounds.

A 42 gallon barrel of crude refined is half is gasoline and the other half fractions out as butane and propane, diesel, jet fuel, naphtha as petrochemical feedstock, heating oil, lubricants, asphalt...

So --- the corporate 1% just smiles and nods when sheeples consumer patterns//opinions helps them purge that hazardous by-product gasoline more rapidly from inventories!!

Sorry, just musing up some choice factoids - as long as they pump crude from the ground every drop will get burned // used, all the complexity and new rules is NIMBY logic at it's finest that actually aides Big Oil by better streamlining the hazmat waste (gasoline) channels...
 

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I was making a sandwich in my kitchen, starring at my SodaStream machine, thinking about the 20 pounds of CO2 per gallon of fuel and the irony that I pay nearly $18 a pound for pressurized CO2. The solution to global warming is to drink more soda!
 

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Soda doesn’t have to be sugary, in the UK they add fruit flavors or juice to carbonated water. It’s tasty.

Anyway, speaking of fossil fuels, I think self driving cars are further off than people expect, but electric trucks are a lot closer.

I expect this pro-master to be the last fossil fuel vehicle I buy.

I even researched building/converting a van to all electric. It’s possible now, and not inordinately expensive, and with Tesla’s charger network you would have quite a range.

But battery power is not a good heating solution below 40 degrees, and I didn’t want to take on even more of a project— converting to a camper is enough.

I think Diesel engines are great, but US mandated emissions are going to kill them here. A shame the US didn’t just allow European standard compliant diesels to be imported unmolested.


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No, but co2 dissolves tooth enamel just as well as sugar (BTW, i drink natualy flavored soda water with no sugar, personally) It's not good for the teeth either but at my age its not a problem, I wouldn't even consider consuming a regular soft dink or especially a "diet" soft drink for any reason - I get my caffeine from my morning cuppa Joe. :)

I must admit to consuming my share of Coke and all the other sugary beverages out there in my wild & crazy youth but the 60's have long since passed!
 

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Hey, now this conversation just turned serious. I designed my van with a specific capacity for 16 Diet Mountain Dew 12-packs. That's 192 cans. I've never used carried more than half that, and I allow MrNomer space for his Pepsi's, but the space is there if I need it. I don't do coffee or alcohol, but I love me a Dew or two or three.

On topic, I return the CO2 to the atmosphere after I'm finished with it, though perhaps in modified form.
 
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