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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there,
I notice there aren't too many owners of Black Promasters on this forum. I think maybe Farmike and Uncubed? Well given that my 2017 Silver PM Diesel likely won't arrive, I'm considering used options. I've located one in black (with dual sliding doors). Those are the only options that concern me. My questions are:

1. Is Black liveable as a well insulated Campervan in the summer?
2. Has anyone done a full vinyl wrap to change the colour. I'm thinking silver. Estimated cost to do 159 Ext. estimated 380 square feet.
3. Does anyone have the drivers side slider, and will it limit my conversion plans? I would just disable the door.

Thanks
Shaun
 

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Wouldn't worry about black, particularly in Canada. I think a wrap job can go anywhere between $1000-$2000 US although that's only from what I've read others say they spent. Dual sliders - sucks for a camper conversion, imho.
 

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I recently got a quote here in Michigan for a vinyl wrap job. The quote was $3000.00 for a full vinyl wrap in light grey, nothing fancy in regards to graphics.
 

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Yes black gets hot. I have 2 inches insulation on the ceiling and they get pretty warm in summer sun.
 

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2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
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Hi,
This is a summer temperature/ventilation test I did on my white PM side by side with my very dark blue Honda Pilot:
http://www.buildagreenrv.com/keeping-the-camper-van-conversion-cool-a-test/

There are some temperature measurements for the white PM closed up and then ventilated with a MaxxFan and with reflective shades -- the combination of forced venting and reflective shades is pretty effective on a white van, and would certainly help on a dark van.

But also note the "White vs Dark" section. The temperature difference from outside air temp to inside air temp was 45F degrees larger with the dark blue Honda Pilot than for the white PM. Not a perfect test due to glazing and geometry differences, but I think the 45F difference is mostly due to the dark color.

A study that gives some numbers on inside temps of black vs silver identical cars:
https://phys.org/news/2011-10-silver-white-cars-cooler.html
They show around 22C (40F) difference in inside temps between black and silver -- this is with no ventilation.

You can always paint the top of a dark van white as its not very visible.

I guess up in Canada you would get a bit more free solar heat in the winter with the black one :)

-----------

Seems like the extra sliding door must be a pretty costly option that you would be paying for to some degree, but not really getting any benefit from?

Gary
 

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"But also note the "White vs Dark" section. The temperature difference from outside air temp to inside air temp was 45F degrees larger with the dark blue Honda Pilot than for the white PM. Not a perfect test due to glazing and geometry differences, but I think the 45F difference is mostly due to the dark color.

A study that gives some numbers on inside temps of black vs silver identical cars:
https://phys.org/news/2011-10-silver-white-cars-cooler.html
They show around 22C (40F) difference in inside temps between black and silver -- this is with no ventilation."
Gary[/Quote]

Gary those are HUGE temp differences in your test. The other referenced test on cars states they only saw a 5-6C (9-11F) difference. The graph is hard to interpret so I checked their published abstract and that confirmed only the 2 degree delta. We need more data!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the detailed explanation Gary. I am leaning away from this option due to the colour and cost to wrap, plus the issues that extra door will cause. I also think it's a little overpriced so I think I will keep looking, or maybe order a Gas version in the options I want.

Shaun
 

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2014, 138WB, High Roof, Gas, SW MT
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"But also note the "White vs Dark" section. The temperature difference from outside air temp to inside air temp was 45F degrees larger with the dark blue Honda Pilot than for the white PM. Not a perfect test due to glazing and geometry differences, but I think the 45F difference is mostly due to the dark color.

A study that gives some numbers on inside temps of black vs silver identical cars:
https://phys.org/news/2011-10-silver-white-cars-cooler.html
They show around 22C (40F) difference in inside temps between black and silver -- this is with no ventilation."
Gary
Gary those are HUGE temp differences in your test. The other referenced test on cars states they only saw a 5-6C (9-11F) difference. The graph is hard to interpret so I checked their published abstract and that confirmed only the 2 degree delta. We need more data![/QUOTE]


Hi,
I actually interpreted the graph on that study wrong -- the fine print at the bottom says that it is a "Comparison of roof surface temperatures measured during soaking and cooling trials." -- so, not how much hotter it got inside the car. As you say, I think they got more like 10F difference on the inside temperatures. Not sure why the numbers I measured on my black vs white vehicle are so much different -- lots of variables I guess.

The roof surface temps are interesting. They show 130F roof temp on the silver car and 170F on the black car. If you assume you want to keep 75F inside, then the heat load for the black part of the van goes up by (170-75)/(130-75) =1.7 between silver and black -- that's a lot of extra load on whatever is trying to cool the van.

Gary
 

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MMXVI - L2H2 in IN
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Didn't the white Promaster have 1 inch of really good insulation and the green Pilot had a factory headliner?
 

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Didn't the white Promaster have 1 inch of really good insulation and the green Pilot had a factory headliner?
Hi Phil,
Thats a good point. The PM does have an inch of polyiso, but not sure how well the Pilot is insulated.

But, I think the insulation level makes more difference if there is some ventilation going on -- that is, some of the heat is being removed by a fan or the like.
Things like a higher percentage of glazed area on the Pilot probably also make a difference.

Gary
 

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I agree with your conclusion, I would add that one needs to put an exhaust vent high up and a supply vent down low.

Then you get into the vent location discussions.

Heat transfer as I know it.
The sheet metal heats up and radiates into the van, the insulation will delay that transfer of heat, it will eventually saturate the insulation and then radiate into the interior.

I suspect the Pilot has thicker sheet metal and the insulation is more for sound damping.
 

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Yes this is why ventilation is important and why it is not possible to keep a van at ambient temperature when no cooling is happening.
 

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2014 Ram Promaster 2500 159" diesel
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Buy any color you want paint the roof with an ir-reflective paint or white, they do come in colors. Contact Ram for the ir spec's of there paints. maybe they have some, other than white. Here's an article on IR reflective pigments.
http://www.pcimag.com/articles/83468-introduction-to-ir-reflective-pigments
P.S to RD Sherwin Williams makes IR reflective deck paint when it's time to paint your white roof deck.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I pulled the trigger, getting the Black PM this weekend

I decided (had no choice) to cancel my factory order 2017 3500 Ext Diesel and go with a used 2016 with only 6200km on it. I'm picking it up this Saturday about 450km from my house. Should be a fun drive home in the hollow box!

The van is pretty loaded with lots of must have options, but also a bunch that I didn't want. Oh well, the price was right and I want to get on with my build. Key options are swivels, leather wheel, park sensors, aux power connector, cruise, and rear heat and ac prep.

I will be sure to provide updates along the way.
 

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Hi there,
I notice there aren't too many owners of Black Promasters on this forum. I think maybe Farmike and Uncubed? Well given that my 2017 Silver PM Diesel likely won't arrive, I'm considering used options. I've located one in black (with dual sliding doors). Those are the only options that concern me. My questions are:

1. Is Black liveable as a well insulated Campervan in the summer?
2. Has anyone done a full vinyl wrap to change the colour. I'm thinking silver. Estimated cost to do 159 Ext. estimated 380 square feet.
3. Does anyone have the drivers side slider, and will it limit my conversion plans? I would just disable the door.

Thanks
Shaun
I got mine wrapped by Gatorwraps. They have a lot of wraps, with lots of types and colors to choose from. They wrap all kinds of crazy things and lettering decals. You might also want to check Gatorprints.
 

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Resurrecting this thread to find out how the black has worked out for you. Would you do it again?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
It's been a little over a year with the black van. I've grown to really like the exterior look of the black, never been a fan for my other cars because it's just too hard to keep "really" clean. However with the van I don't really care for the just waxed look. Regarding heat, I have been able to live with it but it would certainly make more sense to have a lighter colour if you lived or traveled in the south a lot. I'm in Ontario, and we just got back from a trip to Georgia where the temps were in low 90's. We turned the maxx fan on "blow"' instead of suck and it was very nice. My ideal colour would be silver.
 

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More power to you black PM owners. Living in the south and 2-3 trips to Florida a year it was not even a consideration.
But I think any color would work in Florida with a white roof. But considering how much 'stuff' is on our roof (air-con, solar panel, Maxxair, Road-shower) I have to wonder how much roof is left for insolation.
 
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