[mikesee]

Woke up to a CEL on Friday. Dropped it at dealer and they found a code that directed them to bleed the clutch master cylinder. I had no time that day and they said it could be safely driven without the bleed, so they cleared the code and sent me on my way.

It's at the dealer now, ostensibly being bled.

Just curious if this has happened to anyone else yet, and if it might be indicative of a larger problem?

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

I don’t think we have seen a clutch bleed done due to a code. I’d wait it out and see if anything else shows up or if the shifting shows abnormalities. There is no reason to think it is more than a poor initial fluid fill. I am hesitant to suggest possibilities as unjustified paranoia can be the result. Relax (if you can).

 

[jimmbomb]

Are there clutch pedals on these vans? I own a gasser.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

No- Robotically shifted and clutched.

 

[mikesee]

Got it back a few days ago, seems smoother (shifting) somehow. Leaving for a ~1500 mile roadtrip in the AM, will report back if necessary when we return.

 

[mikesee]

Roadtrip was smooth -- no CEL's or any other hiccups along the way. Roughly 1800 miles all-in. Got 27 mpg on a 550 mile-stretch of 55 and 65mph 2-laners through Idaho. Got 22.1 mpg on the ~400 mile 84mph stretch of I-84/I-15 heading back home.

Woke up the morning after getting home, turned the key and got a CEL. Drove straight to dealer because IME the CEL's I've seen typically go away after one more cycle of the ignition. Dealer pulled code P2872: Clutch stuck engaged.

It was Saturday and they had a skeleton crew there, so I'm dropping it back off in the AM for the day.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

Since you drove it to the dealer it WAS NOT stuck engaged or you wouldn’t have gotten there. However the code is there due to some sensor reporting such an error. Thanks for reporting back.

 

[mikesee]

Dealer suspected an electrical connection was bad somewhere, but can't find anything. STAR wanted them to keep it overnight, in hopes that the CEL might happen again for them in the AM. Told them thanks but no thanks -- if it happens in the AM I can just drive it down to them right then and there -- with the CEL still illuminated on the dash. That has happened many times already and each time I *have* done that they've been able to find nothing. Most often they can't even pull a code.

My only contribution (other than frustration) has been to explain to the dealer that I have a very steep driveway, and the CEL almost always appears first thing in the AM after being parked on that steep grade all night. I've never actually gotten the CEL when driving -- only after a startup. A few of these have been when out boondocking, after creeping up or down a steep grade to get into or out of camp. Thus I asked if it was possible that there was an air bubble trapped in the clutch somewhere, that is migrating elsewhere when the van is inclined steeply. Service writer had no real idea, and I didn't get to talk to a tech.

All I've got. Open to other ideas.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

Aha! it’s the sensor in the clutch fluid reservoir sensing low fluid! (it’s a guess!) Can you super top it up- say a bit over full? That might be worth a try.

 

[mikesee]

Aha! it’s the sensor in the clutch fluid reservoir sensing low fluid! (it’s a guess!) Can you super top it up- say a bit over full? That might be worth a try.

Wouldn't the code then say something about fluid level, instead of 'stuck engaged'?

And, to be clear, this happens maybe once every ~3 weeks, not every morning. Just thinking that it would trigger whatever sensor more often since it's consistently parked in exactly the same spot.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

I’m guessing the tilt has something to do with a sensor and there is little else to invent here. I was guessing and suggesting a non-destructive possible solution that may have no effect but might lead to the code not setting. You are right low fluid should not trigger THAT symptom code. Either top it up a bit or don’t. Code P2872 is a generic code, I’d have confidence it is related to the clutch BUT perhaps not to that specific symptom. Really, what have you got to loose? BTW the fact it sets the code only when having set a bit also suggests air in the line or on an immersed sensor that is why they bled it. Just try’n

I just looked it up and now I want to confirm that the service people at your dealer said “Clutch stuck engaged” as that code is used by other manufacturers to sense voltage in the TPS circuit! That would be very different. I don't have the specific Fiat/Ram code source but they do. If the tech. just read out the code and looked it up on the internet you are probably not getting the correct symptom.

 

[mikesee]

I’m guessing the tilt has something to do with a sensor and there is little else to invent here. I was guessing and suggesting a non-destructive possible solution that may have no effect but might lead to the code not setting. You are right low fluid should not trigger THAT symptom code. Either top it up a bit or don’t. Code P2872 is a generic code, I’d have confidence it is related to the clutch BUT perhaps not to that specific symptom. Really, what have you got to loose? BTW the fact it sets the code only when having set a bit also suggests air in the line or on an immersed sensor that is why they bled it. Just try’n

I just looked it up and now I want to confirm that the service people at your dealer said “Clutch stuck engaged” as that code is used by other manufacturers to sense voltage in the TPS circuit! That would be very different. I don't have the specific Fiat/Ram code source but they do. If the tech. just read out the code and looked it up on the internet you are probably not getting the correct symptom.

Your musings and elucidations are much appreciated. My questioning wasn't intended to come off as argumentative -- I just wanted to continue the discussion.

Dealer couldn't translate that code into anything meaningful -- I googled it on my phone while they groped each other.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

Yes I suspected that they didn’t/couldn’t find a specific FCA symptom for that code. They are going to have to investigate with whatever Ram has for tech. genius higher up. Don’t be surprised if next time they wiggle the wire at the TPS sensor! I’m stumped. Best to you and keep us informed.

 

[d1rider]

getting same p2872 occasionally,but works fine,can't tell diff,but would like to know actual manufactor code,will stay tuned

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

That is three of us, please report it to FCA and ask our dealer’s techs some hard questions.

 

[mikesee]

I want to give my dealer the benefit of the doubt -- in that they both have a clue and give a **** -- but they keep giving me reasons to doubt them.

I had to be out of town last Weds AM thru Sunday PM. Perfect time to give it to them for in-depth digging for this problem. Dropped it off on Weds AM early. First red flag was that my "normal" service writer wasn't there. Thus I had to go back and explain the history of this problem to the guy that I did get. They take notes and keep them in the computer, but they are brief, and vague, and you could read them from many different perspectives.

After 10+ minutes of explaining to him what is happening, he said he understood, then asked two questions, back to back, that told me he not only didn't understand but probably wasn't even listening to me. Needing to get to the airport *now* I didn't have time to start over. I reiterated the basics, got confirmation that he understood, then as I was leaving I told him for at least the 3rd time that I'd be in at 7:30 on Monday morning to pick it up.

I had a voice mail from him on Thursday afternoon telling me that they couldn't find anything, and that it was ready for pickup. When I did pick it up, on Monday morning as promised, he said they weren't even able to find a code in the system.

The next nearest dealer is over an hour away, and of unknown value. With the local dealer, I can leave the van and ride my bike home in 10 minutes. I'd like to keep it local, but how do I get through to these people and get them to give a **** about what I'm telling them?

 

[KilWerBzz]

P2872-clutch 1 stuck engaged

P2872-CLUTCH 1 STUCK ENGAGED
Here's most of what they check and is sent to the cloud so every tech knows. I don't no what order they check but that is dependent on the previous check being a yes or no.
Run a scan and save the report in the files for future use.
Check the vehicle repair history.
Check transmission fluid level. The only way to check M40MTA level is to drain and refill with the correct amount.
Check clutch position sensor operation.
Check clutch solenoid valve operation.
Inspect clutch components.
Check wiring and connectors.
Check for aftermarket electronics that may be bundled with or near wiring harness that may cause EMI of the circuit.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

Thanks KWB,
I am beginning to doubt that generic code is used by FCA for the Clutch and here is why. None of the few of us who have gotten the P2872 code have reported any clutch or shifting symptoms, the code is generated once on startup or soon after, it happens at odd times not consistently, and there are internet references to that code being used for other sensors like the TPS although that has its own codes. I am guessing that as a generic code it was adopted by FCA for some sensor we have that is not common or not on the normal ODB2 code list (fluid level?). Have you or anyone heard that the Ram tech has searched FCA for the code as it seems to me they are searching the same internet we are. If so, we may all be misdirected? Or perhaps you can think what the clutch might be doing? I am at a loss so I am creating here. I also am trying to decide if there is anything I can do to investigate further if it repeats on my van. What do you (all) think?

 

[mikesee]

I am beginning to doubt that generic code is used by FCA for the Clutch and here is why. None of the few of us who have gotten the P2872 code have reported any clutch or shifting symptoms,

I believe I am starting to feel a clutch issue. Immediately after it shifts the clutch doesn't completely disengage -- think pressing your foot lightly on the pedal of a modern manual trans car -- then after a second or two, it releases, and there is a subtle but noticeable increase in acceleration as this happens.

I am, admittedly, princess and the pea incarnate, and can detect (and want to fix) minute issues that others neither notice nor care about. I spent time explaining this issue -- how and when to feel it -- to the service writer last wednesday. When I picked the van up he gave the standard "unable to duplicate" response. I felt it again, immediately, when I drove off the lot.

 

[KilWerBzz]

Not guessing them the facts.

P2872-clutch 1 stuck engaged
This is how FCA lists this code for the promaster diesel. The checks I listed are correct but not to full context of the check. Disconnect the battery before you start messing with things. I would check all connections unplug and re-plug as the only thing that can be done without the starr scan tool and proper ohm readouts. There's a wire bundle, in front of the fuel filter, that contains trans wires the big connector and the little one. There is a sensor under the hydraulic reservoir good luck with that one. Check the reverse switch on the side of the trans sorry no pics. That's all I know for now.
https://goo.gl/photos/88mtden6M11oVWsVA
Oh if you drain the hydraulic fluid reservoir there is a procedure that needs to be followed and the trans may need to be retrained.