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Discussion Starter #1
Love my PM , but at 1797 miles my cel has been on for most of them. DEF service , big surprise right.... Left dealer, calibrated def metering is what they said. Well 3 miles later it's on again. I am sure it's the same reason. But I will go back for visit number 4 in under 2k miles.
 

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I did not check but I am betting your van sat a while at a dealer and we know it sat a month in MX. The DEF is probably bad and should/could be drained and refilled with good DEF. My dealer said topping it up fixed those he had but some 2014 vans have been on the lot for up to 2 years! That is the limit for DEF even if not stored in heat. Post what they do to solve this and try toping it up yourself. At 1800 miles you may get up to 2 gallons in as they don't quite fill it at the factory. Then have them reset the CEL for free. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You might be onto something, I know the pictures show it on lot with snow. It hasn't snowed here since February. Now they added a gallon of urea and told me it was almost out yesterdafy. It only has 1801 miles today when I dropped it back off.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
They ordered metering pump and injector.
 

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Yea, I expected parts replacement but I'm betting the bad DEF was the problem and the new one will fix it with the new DEF in there. BTW first DEF injector/metering pump replacement mentioned here. Got my fingers crossed for fast parts shipment for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Said parts only day away, but closed tomorrow, so looking at Monday or Tuesday
 

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Dooman,
I had the DEF warnings come on in my first month of ownership around 4950 miles. They were intermittently at first, then constant, so I added 2.5 gal of DEF at 5100 miles - no more warnings. Good luck to you!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I think you guys are correct. Have you seen def after it dries out? Pour a little on ground and come back to see for yourselves.

I think the fluid is bad, I think the injector is plugged with crystallized def from sitting on the lot. I have faith it will be resolved. It's not my first diesel, I have been driving them long before they were cool. My old 03 ram was making 550rwhp.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Said they are replacing tank as well. Eta on parts tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Call from dealer, tank has an eta of January 28, very unacceptable timeframe
 

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Its hard to believe that tank needs replacing. DEF's Urea is very soluble in water so removing it and rinsing it would clean it easily. I don't get what they expect to gain from replacing it if it is structurally sound. The other parts, metering pump and so forth OK. Parts availability has been a n issue from get go perhaps because they are all in Europe except for the gas engine, auto-transmission and its mounting hardware. Frustrating.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Have you saw the solution after it is dry? It crystallizes. It's a known problem at cummins so pretty sure everyone else knows it. They would have preferred another route but, just following the EPA.

Now I have not tried cleaning it out after its dried, but a call to a cummins engineer I know and I found out what I have.

I can tell you this, after my lesson on the stuff I am not impressed and the neither is the oe builders.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ps the parts may originate in Europe but they assemble them in Mexico. They could pull one and ship it next day and be money ahead over renting me a journey , but hey I am no pea counter.
 

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I agree but I have washed the crystals off and I seem to remember it redissolves almost instantly. We used to use it in the lab and its ability to dissolve in water is amazing.

Remember what our cities and roads were like back in the day before the EPA? I don't like regulation either but my diesel doesn't ever belch smoke, in fact the exhaust pipe has NO SOOT at all in it after nearly 10K miles. It's like a miracle! It had to be done. I doubt the EPA said Urea, they just said reduce the NOx and Soot. The industry came up with a way.... good for them. I have had no issues with the system either and most of us don't.

With the car emissions we now have lifetime tune ups, clean exhaust, terrific power, and 10,000 mile oil changes. Vehicles have gotten better for all the regulation so hang on, diesels will become just as good, probably better. Most of the transition is over already. Sorry about your issue but it is related to your buying an old "new" van that was not properly prepared for storage for so long. As for Cummins of course they didn't want to do it. Most corporations are not inherently clean or environment friendly, bottom line, profit friendly instead. Pox on them if they aren't.
 

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Sorry to hear about the issues and long delays you are experiencing with your PM. I'm still of the opinion that these diesels are not a good choice for those that work with their vehicles. The down times are just too much of a risk and I can see them becoming incredible money pits if problems like this are recurrent and happen after the warranty expires.


Also, I'd ask to see the old tank. Just my guess, but I'd be curious to see if the issue is that the dealership broke it during the removal or installation process.
 

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I have a different opinion worth little I know. The diesel builds since mid 2015 have had almost NO issues. 2014 holdovers and early 2015s are showing some def/cel issues on initial use. No failures of engine, only one clutch actuator issue with transmission AFAIK. Remember no vehicle has NO issues, we have had a couple of gas engines fail, at least one gasser's transmission fail so buying a gasser won't prevent the possibility of issues. Why do you feel the diesel is not a good choice? Let me point out very few gassers have gone the long miles either so we don't yet know if that will be a money pit. Just a hunch on your part or do you know something we should know too?
 

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I have a different opinion worth little I know. The diesel builds since mid 2015 have had almost NO issues. 2014 holdovers and early 2015s are showing some def/cel issues on initial use. No failures of engine, only one clutch actuator issue with transmission AFAIK. Remember no vehicle has NO issues, we have had a couple of gas engines fail, at least one gasser's transmission fail so buying a gasser won't prevent the possibility of issues. Why do you feel the diesel is not a good choice? Let me point out very few gassers have gone the long miles either so we don't yet know if that will be a money pit. Just a hunch on your part or do you know something we should know too?
I'm not opposed to a different opinion. :)

My opinion of the diesel is based upon my own experience with newer diesel technology and reports here and elsewhere online about PM specific diesel issues. Just a rough guess, but it seems like at least 75% of break down issues reported on this site are specific to the diesel and predominantly the emissions controls and code issues. That's even more concerning when you consider that the diesel engine was not available for almost the entire first year of production and that they account for a much smaller percentage of PM's than the gas engine.

I realize that all vehicles have problems, but for me dependability is the number one priority when one works with a van. These PM vans don't have the towing or carrying capacity to make a diesel a necessity, so their advantage is purely in fuel savings, drive-ability and hopefully longevity. IMO for business owners these advantages are far outweighed by the risk of longer repair times and risk of future repair costs due to the emissions systems.
 

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I think the fact that Ram has reduced the warranty on the gas PM by 60% and maintained the warranty on the diesel is probably a better indication of what they are experiencing with having to respond to warranty claims. I suspect that that is more accurate than any anecdotal information.

Of course, I could be wrong... but when a big corporation makes that kind of decision, you know that it's in their best financial interests.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I know cummins trucks with 75,000 miles on the oil, they run bypass filters and amsoil. The samples say good no need to change. I have read in the TDR about guys with way more than that.
Soot was a past issue really, the 08-10 cummins trucks were very clean at the tailpipe. Not so much after hopped up, but stock they are. Think that's bs why don't the cummins go into limp mode if def runs dry? Because they are already very clean without the urea.

I have been driving diesels longer than diesels have been cool.
 

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dooman, I'm sure you have, but that won't help you with today's diesels unfortunately. To burn clean of soot the diesel runs very lean with the excess of air supplying oxygen that produces nitrogen oxides. Those NOx can be reduced with the Urea as it decomposes to ammonia which causes the nitrogen oxides to covert to water (vapor) and elemental nitrogen in the exhaust system. Elemental nitrogen is a normal constituent of air. You can't see the nitrogen oxides so those trucks were clean of soot but not NOx. Now they are.

Quote form Ghosting: "I think the fact that Ram has reduced the warranty on the gas PM by 60% and maintained the warranty on the diesel is probably a better indication of what they are experiencing with having to respond to warranty claims."

Point of view is interesting, I took it to mean they knew the gassers would kill them with engine and transmission rebuilds/ replacement in the latter part of that warrantee and the diesel was a safe bet to get to the 100K, after all these 3.0's run many hundreds of thousand miles in other trucks. Oh well, we all get our own take on stuff I guess.
 
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