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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was researching insulation for my flooring. The BedRug, according to their customer service said that it provides R4 protection. Combine that with a waterproof underlayment, plywood and then flooring, it sounds like a good setup.

If I insulate on my own with polyiso or foam, it seems like a pain to have to fill in all of the ribs myself. It'd be nice to buy something that is already custom fit.

Any better ideas that have a higher R value and are easy to install?
 

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I have responded several times here that polyiso. does not need to have the ribs filled. Put it down on the floor loose and it will be fine, it can support tons of weight on a sheet (about 600 lbs./sq. ft) and the air gap makes it a better insulator. Two 1/2” sheets of it will do a 136” van and cost about $20 and be better than R4. There is nothing better, NOTHING.

Oh there is something better yes 1” polyiso. but 1/2 is enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good info. Thanks, RD! I'll go pick up some 1/2" poly tonight.

No need to put Great Stuff in the ribs? I suppose you're advocating for keeping the air gap so the air can move...

So the layering would be:
- Sheet metal
- 1/2" poly
- Waterproof underlayment
- Plywood
- Flooring

Is that right?
 

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I skipped the waterproof underlayment too. I have taken up my floor twice in the last year and found no evidence of moisture having been on the floor. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t but not in such a way it left any evidence like dust pooling, or stains on any part of the floor or flooring.
I think all you need is: Sheet metal, 1/2” polyisocyanurate (foil covered vapor barrier built in), plywood (don’t skimp here- good sanded sheets which are flat and the more plys the better), I then have cheap carpet to avoid conduction of heat from (or to) my feet. I don’t like laminates or Pergo type flooring as they are cold when it is cold and hot when it is hot. Marmolium like MsNomer used is good (see her thread), replaceable carpet is good, some quality sheet goods are good, engineered wood flooring may be ok. I know you didn’t ask about flooring but I just can’t help myself!
See this:
http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=282361&postcount=102
 

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Oh there is something better yes 1” polyiso. but 1/2 is enough.
I'm about to take that step myself. What's your rationale for stopping at 1/2" rather than more?

It also seems poly-iso is rare on the westcoast of Canada. Even HD doesn't carry it. They all say it's an eastcoast thing (weird). Lowes (Nanaimo) is the only island source I could find.
 

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I guess we're the odd couple out...we did use the Bedrug Vantred to fill gaps and insulate; worse, we used an engineered wood floor on top-the Fleet Solutions KKplus. Both worked great for us. Now why? Because my she-boss hates solid foam...thinks it squeaks! Me, I would have gone polyiso without hesitation for floor/walls and ceiling but there must be peace in the house.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I skipped the waterproof underlayment too.
Whoa, no waterproofing?! :eek:
My head explode (robot voice)
Everyone's build seems to use a waterproofer of some kind. I guess it's hard to imagine not using it.
Big question about your polyiso usage: no rattling or squeaking? I've read it doesn't make noise in the walls when glued/foamed down, but loose on the floor...

I guess we're the odd couple out...we did use the Bedrug Vantred to fill gaps and insulate; worse, we used an engineered wood floor on top-the Fleet Solutions KKplus. Both worked great for us. Now why? Because my she-boss hates solid foam...thinks it squeaks! Me, I would have gone polyiso without hesitation for floor/walls and ceiling but there must be peace in the house.
Did/do you like using the Bedrug? Regardless of the flooring used, it seems convenient... but it probably isn't worth the money?
 

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What's not to love :)
The installation took less than 5 min's.
Throughout our build we looked for plug-n-play wherever we could and it gets no better than the
Bedrug products for plug-n-play. Instant sound proofing, insulation, and I think it is a closed cell foam so it's a waterproofer
as well. It provided a flat surface for the composite wood floor we put down next.
Worth the money? Only you can size that up. It was for us.
We're a touch over 4000 miles accrued in the campervan and so far it is quiet, resists heat....can't say how it does in the cold, that
will be this fall but like many we have a rug down for the bare feet. It'll be fine though because we both have down booties :)
 

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Ah, we like barefoot inside so the carpet (or something to break the conduction) is important. Carpet in a van has the problem that you get it dirty like in a mudroom entrance in a house so we have a mat at the door to brush off our shoes and we take the hiking boots off if they are clogged. It was $19, I can replace it in an hour. A cheap IKEA doormat is there as well to put on the ground if wanted (98 cents)
Polyisocyanurate IS a vapor and water barrier. I learned in home building never to have two vapor barriers. The van should keep the rain outside and only vapor should be an interior issue. You fight moisture in two ways. 1. Insulate to avoid condensation as best you can. 2. Let vapor condensate move to the scuppers in the rocker panels of the van and escape. Polyiso helps this to happen as it does not trap the water and no matter how you install it you probably won’t prevent the condensation from moving down. I ran my great stuff lines of glue (gaps and cracks) vertically down the walls so between them there was a bit of relief to let water move. This is one other reason I like GS for glue better than 3M 100. On the ceiling it runs laterally as the camber of the ceiling allows moisture to move to the walls. The perimeter GS foam should be interrupted to allow vertical movement too. I thought some off this out as I installed but could improve on my job now that I have reflected on it.
The Poliso does not squeak. The squeaky Myth will not die!
I have posted elsewhere on why 1/2” so I’ll summarize: with the other flooring it gets to R10- the optimum insulative value for heat and cooling, it breaks the conduction flow of heat, and more gives little advantage (enough is enough.) That being said I like 1” too as I have said as well. I like the Bedrug too. Its a $ and KISS issue. Spend more and do more if you want.
Look at the floor when done. Whats not to like?
http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=282361&postcount=102
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What's not to love :)
The installation took less than 5 min's.
I suppose if I do RD's recommendation, it will be 5 minutes as well and cost several hundred dollars less.

The Poliso does not squeak. The squeaky Myth will not die!
The polyiso squeaked when I was moving it around in place tonight to GS foam around it. Not quite a myth...
With that said, after putting a sh*t-ton of GS around it, there probably won't be any more squeaking.
Squeaks on its own, silent when foamed.

Laying it loose... what about the wet bath above it? I suppose I'll need to put some waterproofing layers between that and the plastic wall/floor for the shower.
Did you GS foam the edges of the polyiso on the floor so the polyiso foam didn't come into contact with air/water/etc.?
 

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No, I have painted the edges of polyiso to waterproof them for a different project. Exterior latex and a roller make fast work of it.
Think of that shower like a second floor shower in a house. Build it and use it so it can never leak!
Egad man, if you move it around almost everything squeaks. Let it lie and it will be silent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
No, I have painted the edges of polyiso to waterproof them for a different project. Exterior latex and a roller make fast work of it.
I'm about to do flooring this week and bought some things to modify what we talked about to insulate for noise.

-Sheet metal
-Noico 80 mil sound deadening sheets
-1/2" polyiso (When you painted the edges with "exterior latex", you just mean standard house paint for walls/fences?)
-1/8" Audimute Peacemaker sound barrier
-3/4" Plywood (3/4" alright or do I need to go to 1"?)
-Flooring

Anyone know where to find a stencil/layout of the 3500 extended? I've looked all over the interwebs for one with no luck (even contacted Ram and some other vendors). Part of my thinking for getting the bedrug was to have a custom-fit stencil for the van floor. Having a stencil would greatly cut down on install time. After my polyiso experience with the walls, I'm tempted to just get the bedrug for that reason alone... (scratches chin)
 

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Regular old house paint.
My floor is 1/2” Polyiso and 1/2” hardwood plywood, so yes 3/4 will be fine. You don’t need either of the sound deadeners under the floor as the polyiso and the mass of the plywood will be super effective.
CAD for the floor template. Cardboard Aided Design. Make a template out of cardboard.

>:DYou seem determined to spend hundreds of dollars more than you need to on this floor. I can send my Paypal account info if you would just like to send the wasted money to me, do as we have advised and have just as quiet a van. You’d feel good about having spent more than necessary and I could use the money for something like a roof top AC or a trip to Newfoundland.>:D You are going to love how quiet the van gets no matter what you do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I took a decibel reading before and after adding the polyiso. It didn't make a difference at all. After doing some research, it is apparent that polyiso is only good for temperature insulation but not for sound. Yeah, I had a couple extra hundred dollars laying around and so I decided that rather than giving it to you, I'd put it into sound barrier for my van. Haha!

Should I just lay the floor down floating (polyiso, plywood and flooring)? What happens if you hit a big bump? I imagine at some point the floor is going to bounce/shift. I've seen some people find the holes for their tie-downs and mount into those.

There's a whole bunch out there and also a whole bunch of people out there recommending different kinds of plywood. DRIcore looks pretty cool, but somebody we know might complain about cost. ;-)
 

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Note that the dB scale is logarithmic so a change of only a few (three) decibels decreases the sound level by half. My van before and after insulating with the Polyiso and floor attenuated the sound by 10 dB. That is a lot! About 1/10 the level from before. Sound is better decreased by the mass of the plywood than the polyiso on the floor. On the walls glueing the polyiso to the van’s skin tends to decrease the oil-can-drumming sounds so it works well for that. On the floor the higher pitched road and tire noise- not so much, but with the mass of the plywood you will see a dramatic difference, i”d guess probably 5 or more dB. It is true that hitching the plywood/polyiso sandwich down with the tie downs is necessary. I was remiss in not stating that, sorry. I understand your wanting to spend your own money-darn. I’d probably waste it on expensive beer anyway. Go for whatever plywood seems best as that is a good place to spend a bit of extra to improve the longevity and quality. Surprise- even a cheapskate will spend where it makes a difference. Remember I spent $900 for an Espar to be warm. Is DRIcore still 2’X2’ panels? I’d look for a 4’X8’ solution.
It would be helpful to report each part of your build’s sound improvement as us early builders didn't and so we have less data to understand where our sound improvement came from. You’ll be the reference for future builders. Try for same road, same weather, same speed and phone held in the same way. Thanks
 

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Should I just lay the floor down floating (polyiso, plywood and flooring)? What happens if you hit a big bump? I imagine at some point the floor is going to bounce/shift. I've seen some people find the holes for their tie-downs and mount into those.
Here is our bi-monthly repeat on flooring: We didn't secure our floor (1/2" poly + 1/2" plywood) formally.

The reality, though, is that the bed, the galley and refrigerator cabinet, the dinette raised floor and bench seat - - with several of the anchors for these items being secured not only to the plywood, but with through-bolts through the van floor . . . we felt, and have found, no need to further attach the add-on floor to the van floor.

Note that the dB scale is logarithmic so a change of only a few (three) decibels decreases the sound level by half.
We wish we'd taken the time to make db measurements so we could comment on this topic with personal measurements. Yes, db's are logarithmic, but so are our ears. In reality, a human can 'just discern' a 3 db level change.

In any event, while we're uncertain how much the insulation, flooring and Rattle-Trap lowered inside noise, it remains too noisy for good conversation or hands-free phoning. We're hopeful - - as a very large 'contingent' of noise seems to be coming from the roof fan - - that a wind faring of some type will help. Otherwise, we may try the MsNomer approach and fashion a detachable 'insulation square' under the fan while driving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It is true that hitching the plywood/polyiso sandwich down with the tie downs is necessary.... I’d probably waste it on expensive beer anyway.... Is DRIcore still 2’X2’ panels? I’d look for a 4’X8’ solution.... It would be helpful to report each part of your build’s sound improvement as us early builders didn't and so we have less data to understand where our sound improvement came from. You’ll be the reference for future builders. Try for same road, same weather, same speed and phone held in the same way. Thanks
I worked on the floor last night and planned out using the tie down bolt holes.
Expensive beer?! Well, that changes everything!
DRIcore was only in the 2x2 squares. I opted not to get it because of the small square size, thickness and nobody else seems to need it. Plywood seems to do the job just fine.
Yes, I am taking dB samples in each phase of the build, mainly for my own desire to silence the **** out of the cavern behind me while driving. Having the 159" Extended means I've got a lot more echo to deal with than those in the 136".


...with several of the anchors for these items being secured not only to the plywood, but with through-bolts through the van floor... a very large 'contingent' of noise seems to be coming from the roof fan
So that I'm clear, you bolted the bed, cabinets, etc. into the floor of the van? Your bolts drill through the flooring or you left an opening for the bolts?
 

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So that I'm clear, you bolted the bed, cabinets, etc. into the floor of the van? Your bolts drill through the flooring or you left an opening for the bolts?
The two benches that form the 'ends' of the bed, the galley, the frig cabinet, and the dinette bench seat are all 3/4" plywood and are mounted to the floor with several spaced pieces of 1"x 2" oak (each 6-9" in length). Many (but not all) of these oak pieces are bolted to the floor with 1/4" machine bolts that extend through the oak piece, the 1/2" plywood floor, the 1/2" polyiso AND the van's metal floor being secured from below with appropriate washers, lock washers and nuts. In a few cases we just screwed the oak pieces to the plywood floor. Brass phillips flat-head wood screws were used to make the final 'attachment' of the cabinets etc to the oak pieces.
 
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