[TedV865]

My 2015 3500, hi roof extended gasser got the nickname of “Babe, the big red pig” after it swallowed all the gear and the shifter kart my suburban used to haul with a trailer. Yup, that’ll do pig. The PM has huge volume to swallow LOTs of toys.

Eventually it will tow the shifter kart trailer, or whatever Mod vehicle I will be autocrossing, Along with being a camper to hit as many of the 413 national park/monuments as can be visited. Already punched off the Smoky Mtn national Park… 412 more to go..

Insulation: I decided to try out the Hi-Tech SC1000 paint followed by Polyiso and thinsulate as needed. Sound meter readings will be taken and posted once the paint has been applied. Also the reason for the paint opposed to the self-adhesive butyl tile equal cost for less weight explaination.

Generator: One of the reasons I purchased the 3500 I did was because it has the factory 220 amp alternator. The 2800 watt Onan should have better fuel economy than adding a second alternator and still have better ground clearance. So, a genset and where to stick the spare tire?? is on the horizon.

Roof AC: Since the girlfriend has stated “ chunky chick MUST have A/C or you will NOT be happy!!” Most likely will go with a Coleman Mach 8 heat pump or a Dometic Penguin II heat pump. There will be no house propane in this build. So heat will be either heat pump or gasoline powered heater. National parks charge $4 more for a 30 amp hook up? OK, sign me up!! Cooking will be inductive hot plate and microwave/ toaster oven.

Floor plan: We started out this quest liking the Winebago Vista Cruiser G24 floor plan from back in 2005. The current floor plan class B rigs we like are the Safari Condo XLFLEX and the Hymer Aktiv. Safari Condo currently has over a year lead time to build the XLFLEX. Since we are in USA we would need to provide a US spec Promaster and about $35-$40K of cash. The Hymers Ive seen listed for sale are in the $106K range. $74K more than I paid for my 3500 with about all the factory options for a motorhome/camper build. I think I can build a dinette up front with the factory swivel seats, rear transverse bed for 2 with a kitchen and bath in between less than the commercial offerings.

Solar and electric: LiFePo offer more usable juice from 20% to 95% capacity than deep cycle lead that can only do 50% at most. I just wish the businesses offering the components were more forthcoming on specs. There are a few threads I’m watching for details to copy. Proven to work beats, “aww, it’ll be fine.:” My day job is experimental electronics. I don’t have the personal spare cash to experiment on power electronics. I must KISS, Keep it Stupid Simple on my dime.

Water: no black tank. Cassette or port-o-potty. Not sold on an interior shower. I do like the idea of the shower stall with venting to hold the crapper so you close the door and odors aren’t shared with the rest of the rig. With a decent sized sink and spray faucet can do a sponge bath to freshen up. Truck stops offer full blown showers for $10ish if I absolutely have to have a hot steaming 30 minute shower. This is the grey area on the build.. get it.. grey area,, yeah, yeah.. not so puny.

 

[TedV865]

initial weight of 5400 lbs full of fuel and myself. Nothing else in the rig. Aluminum rims, factory towing hitch, factory swivel seats. factory rear door windows, no side windows.

I'm not sure the CR Lawrence windows will have enough ventilation. I would like to add windows on both sides behind the driver and pass doors. Choices from cheapest to most expensive:
CR Lawrence
Dometic Seitz S4
Dometic Seitz S7p
outbound.eu double pane glass. Operate like the Seitz but are glass, not poly, and the price reflects it.

 

[Zyzzyx]

For solar stuff, I give a high recommendation to AM Solar in Oregon. They are great to work with and have the kits all sorted out for lithium installs.

 

[dan04mcs]

I didn't want to deal with any type of cassette toilet or tanks either.

I tried this and love it
http://www.cleanwaste.com/products#pop

Been on several road trips and camping trips and has worked out great.
Set it up before going to bed and no late night flashlight trips to the bathroom.

Just seal the bag and toss in the trash.

Only negative is the bags are a little pricey.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

From TedV865,
"Truck stops offer full blown showers for $10ish if I absolutely have to have a hot steaming 30 minute shower. This is the grey area on the build..”
There are shower bases for RV’s down to 24”X24”
http://www.rvpartscountry.com/Rv-Shower-Pan-24-x-24-4-Flange-Front-Ctr-Drain-Parchment.html
But I would go 27”x24” to allow a pottie in it as you were thinking.
However as soon as you go that route you need a fresh and gray water tank under the floor, a set of walls of some sort and a hot water heater, shower head and pump.
We have been successful in finding State and National lands with campgrounds that have showers. The Forrest Service, BLM, and National Monuments campgrounds are getting more showers all the time and the camping fee is $8 with the lifetime Senior pass. We decided to KISS on the shower. In the west we BLM coyote camp and have accepted that a paid camp every 4 days or so is fine. Baby wipes between showers and the galley sink as you suggest.

 

[zolie22]

My toilet system. I put a 3 gallon tank under the Promaster for urine. I use this toilet as a composting toilet for the solids. We add some organic material/wood shavings to cover it after each use. When I get home, I let it compost and then dump it out. Works great for us.

https://www.riversports.com/rs/prod...et-System-Portable-Camp-River-Toilets-Groover

No shower, Dr Bronner's soap diluted in a spray bottle works great. Just spray it on and wipe dry with a towel.

Heater. webasto diesel with a separate tank.

 

[seapro]

Re post 4 above:
I have used the bag system on boats and vans for years. Walmart sells bags at lower cost than Cleanwaste.

 

[TedV865]

I mentioned the baggie setup to the girlfriend before. She didn't say no, but it was met with less than stellar enthusiasm. We have some time to research and decide.

Weather is warm enough now to apply the primer and sound control insulation paint. However humidity is too high from the drizzling rain and I haven't found a garage to borrow large enough to fit the big girl.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

One nice thing about a porta-pottie is, it resembles what people are used to and the flush is easy to understand and the waste “goes away”. BTW they are easy to dump in any toilet.
From much of what I have read you might go on with your build and ignore the paint and be just as well off.
http://www.noisehelp.com/soundproofing-paint.html
Same for insulation paint.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/

 

[TedV865]

Yeah, I've read all kinds of things while researching the sound deadening issue. The conventional butyl mat will stop the resonance at the expense of a lot of additional weight. Most cost effective is using the Noico brand sold on amazon. It comes in 50 mil and 80 mil thickness. The 80 mil is best used in partial area coverage application. On panel vans sound experts say to cover it all with the thiner 50 mil material.

Sound proofing paint doesn't work? I have heard before and after on a panel van that had been painted with lizard skin. It drastically cut the rattling in a tin can inside a bass drum noise. Sounded to me like it made a difference. The SC1000 is supposed to be on par with Lizard skin at a fraction of the cost.

Thermal insulation paint doesn't work? I've used thermal insulating paint on under hood engine parts. Increased the time until heat soak, and reduced under hood temps. Were things still hot? you betcha, but not as hot as they were before the paint. California was looking to ban dark colored cars since they heated up faster than light colored cars. Eventually both color of cars reached the same temp but the lighter car used less energy cooling because the transfer rate was slower. Counter point, give me grant money and I can make data say whatever you want it to say. Personal experience has shown some coatings do work at resisting heat transfer.

Reasons for trying the paint: Cost for the 50mil Noico Butyl tile was the same. Paint offers a weight savings of 150 pounds. Less weight means better MPG or more stuff I can haul. Everything that goes into the van will go on top of it. Now is the time to try it. I still plan to use the polyiso insulation on the panels and thinsulate in the ribs. Worst case is the paint doesn't do anything and I'm out the cash and time. It will still get covered by insulation that is known to work. It's worth a shot to see if it makes it better.

We took sound readings in the empty van on both A and C scale, set to slow. At highway speeds on A the range was roughly 75-80 dB but the shocker was the C scale 95-100 dB and 110 on rumble strips. That deep droning is fatiguing. We want the rig for road trips and seeing the country. If we feel beat up at the end of the drive we wont enjoy it. The build will cut noise as the van gets filled up. We hauled a king sized bed back to TN from FL. Just having that in there with the floor covered by cardboard cut the noise.

At work I use melamine foam panels from McMaster https://www.mcmaster.com/#9162t329/=15nqyk8. Magic eraser is expensive!!

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

Good that you are investigating and using some science to decide. I really don’t know much about it but I don’t want anyone to think they will solve their insulating issues with just the paint. You have a good handle on it. Thanks for responding.

 

[keeponvaning]

What Ted calls "paint' isn't actually paint but more a soundproofing/insulating product that gets "painted" on - a very big difference in materials and usage than actual paint

 

[Quest4Adv]

You have the "BEST" color of all the PM's






"ducks head"

 

[Phranc]

I wish you the best... sounds like you have an aggressive and complete build ahead of you.

I too was concerned about noise levels when I first got my empty tin can on wheels... adding Noico mats helped, but the addition of insulation, flooring, and panelling really quieted things down.

 

[TedV865]

Onan QG2800 generator has been ordered from PPL Motorhomes. Anti vibration mounts have been scoped out on McMaster Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/#29895t54/=15wdidk Ideas for locating the spare tire and tool kit inside the rear doors like the tire n tools are in my Suburban also forming. Not sure I trust mounting the tire to the door as I have seen others do without massively reinforcing the door sheet metal. Haven't found a frame to hang it off the hinges, and not found a cover to keep UV degradation down. Since I have the factory swivel seats, no room for the tool kit under the seats. It' was zip tied to the seat base. Not the most effective if one plans to swivel around to the back. Gets in the way of dangling feet and legs.

3 day weekend and the temps should be in the low 60's. slapping on the insulating sound deadener should happen before Tuesday. woohoo!! This stuff looks more the consistency of Cool Whip of soft serve ice cream.. Not what you would look at and think it is "paint"

 

[mikesee]

On noise: I've added hundreds and hundreds of pounds of "stuff" to my conversion. Sound deadener (FatMat) and a carpet-like floormat first, then thinsulate. Then I finished the walls with pine, added a mattress, blankets, kitchen, etc... Even went to a newer set of tires because in back to back testing the stock ones transmitted more road buzz into and through the chassis.

The biggest difference of all of this? The one that was most noticeable by far was finishing the ceiling with pine. FatMat and insulation only went so far. I drove to my shop with no ceiling one morning, spent the day measuring, cutting, and screwing the pine into place, then drove home that night. It was like a new vehicle after a few hours.

Never would have predicted it. Very happy about it.

 

[RDinNHandAZ]

Thanks for that, because the sound deadener sellers would have you believe it’s products are the answer and many of us understand there is more to it than that. Like much else here a basic understanding of acoustic energy and how various materials react to it is not common. Few here even bother to download a free phone app to measure their results. Without guidance, money is being wasted that could have been used for something that had a positive result. It isn’t my money but in the interest of helping, I encourage DIY converters to ask and listen, take advice from those who can substantiate results, and accept that spending more is not necessarily better. I use Decibel 10th Pro from the apple app store and paid a small fee to make the ads go away.

 

[keeponvaning]

Excellent advice from RD!

 

[TedV865]

And that's why I've borrowed an Extech 407736 meter. https://www.amazon.com/Extech-407736-Range-Sound-Lever/dp/B0000WTYUU

As has been mentioned, there is no single silver bullet to sound control solutions. Every layer adds up. Some layers help more than others. The lightest weight, cheapest solution would be a pair of ear plugs. :laugh:.

I agree everyone needs to do their own research into what will suit their purposes best. There's tons of info to wade through.

 

[TedV865]

The generator arrived. The spray on SC1000 sound control/insulating "paint" has been applied and is drying. As an indication to how important window covers are, I masked off between the cab area and the rear van where I painted. I pulled off the masking on the doors and wire harnesses from back to front. It was kind of cool in the back. Broke open the masking paper and was hit with a heat wave like you feel when you open an oven. What we can deduce from this

" Kraft paper and masking tape are THE BEST INSULATION EVERRR!!!!!!"

Just kidding

At this point the build has stalled for a reason. My cohort went in for routine PLIF back surgery. Then had an emergency surgery 2 days later. The next day had an MRI and went directly into her 3rd surgery. Needless to say I have some other things to deal with more important. She is getting mobility back but some bodily functions aren't cooperating. I will get back to the build when I can.