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Anti seize or lub on lug bolts?

20K views 48 replies 29 participants last post by  keeponvaning 
#1 ·
So for years I have used anti seize or lube on my lug nuts without issue. It seems to be 50/50 some love it and some fear it. So for those that do their own maintenance on there van who uses lube on the lug bolts and whos dead set against it. Curious to see what others do. I already had one tire shop strip out a lug bolt as it seems they are a PIA to get started and if you try to start them with the impact gun your just asking for problems.
 
#2 ·
Just rotated my tires myself and I had NO problem with the lug nuts. Only an idiot would cross thread one! That being said I like the american system where the stud is on the hub and the wheel is held on with nuts. No lube or anti seize unless the wheel and studs are exposed to salt. I always anti-siezed the studs or lugs when I was driving in New England winters. If not a big cheater bar was called for and the stud would snap right off! DAMHIK Note that lubing them changes the torque required to be safe but I don’t recall how. I use the old fashioned system- tight enough so I can get them off but too tight for wimps and ladies to remove them. Don’t get me wrong WOMEN will still be able to get them off as thats about how strong I have become!
 
#4 ·
For steel wheels the factory says 146 ft/lb (198Nm) torque - Also states "Never use oil or grease on studs or wheel mounting (lug) bolts" and I believe them.

That said... Industry spec for Grade 12 M16 x 1.5 mm bolt... lubricated 130 ft/lb, dry zinc plated 147 ft/lb, plain & dry 174 ft/lb (Fastenal FEDS).

PM lug bolts started out zinc plated so wet torque is ~10% reduction in tightening force to stretch the bolt the same amount to achieve 18,880lbs clamping force.

Might be fine if you're all attention to detail and forever doing it yourself, but a stranger repairing a flat tire or kid on a service line doing tires miss that they're lubed and you've instantly distorted the rim or worse.

I won't say 146 ft/lb comes easy but the first thing I added to the PM was a 30" breaker bar in case they want to bind.
 
#6 ·
I am from PA and the salt plays **** on lugs and for this reason I have always used anti seize and never had a problem. And yes some idiot kid at the tire shop striped the threads right off one of my lug bolts. luckily I was able to clean up the hub with a tap and had no thread damage there. And please name me a tire shop that puts a torque wrench to the lugs or looks for the spec for a vehicle? I know I have never put a torque wrench to lugs in my life and never had a problem. And I also just picked up a 24" breaker bar with a 13/16 and 3/4 impact socket. I have the 3/4 cause my new wheels use different lug bolts so now I have to keep 5 of the steel wheel lug bolts in the van also incase of a flat. seems to be 50/50 here also and if I lived in the south and didn't need it I probably wouldn't use it but its almost a must in the salt belt.
 
#10 ·
I have the 3/4 cause my new wheels use different lug bolts so now I have to keep 5 of the steel wheel lug bolts in the van also incase of a flat. seems to be 50/50 here also and if I lived in the south and didn't need it I probably wouldn't use it but its almost a must in the salt belt.
Do the stock steel wheels and the optional aluminum wheels use the same lug bolts?
 
#8 ·
Yes, Anit Sieze woks. Just use very lightly and always a torque wrench, no air tools for tightening. Stripped lug bolts are simply from bad install/installers
 
#9 ·
When I'm doing my own tires (rotating and such), I put a light coating of high drop temp grease (JT6) on the threads. I keep my vehicles in excess of 15 years and we have a lot of salt here. I get my new tires put on at Fleet Farm (Midwest store) and they hand torque every nut with a torque wrench and it has to be signed off on. They will also retorque for free after 100 miles. It is really pretty simple to tighten up the nuts and then finish everything with a torque wrench. When the fastener is lubed, less force (torque) is needed to get the equivalent clamping force, so you can back off ~ 10 ft lbs on the wrench as compared to the dry spec and you will be fine. In the end, as long as you don't exceed the elastic limit on the bolt, there are no issues in regards to over tightening it (other than it can get tough to remove).
 
#11 ·
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#13 ·
Ok, so we have lug "bolts" like a BMW or VW usually has? I haven't had a wheel off yet and I'm not home to pull one off. Using lug bolts allows easy use if you wanted to use some small hubcentric spacers to fill the wheel wells a bit so that's why I'm wondering. I don't think I love any aftermarket wheels thatuch and my black sprayed steel wheels look good to me so far, but could be spaced out a bit. I've used quality hubcentric spacers and longer studs/lug bolts on several cars in the past.

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#14 · (Edited)
Lug bolts don't require any lub or anti seize. But as long as you don't use to much it won't be a problem. I work on cars for a living, no professional that I've ever met lubricates lug bolts. Not sure about heavy equipment or big rig mechanics. And that wouldn't help the monkey down at the tire shop not cross thread anything, or over tourqe them. It could give false tourqe readings.
 
#15 ·
All that is true but living for 55 years in the heavily salted NE-Kingdom of Vermont taught me (and every professional mechanic I met there) there are two ways to get lug nuts off after a couple of years- treat them with anti-sieze before or with an acetylene torch. Yes it does mess with the torque setting.
 
#18 ·
I have 2 wheel bolts that won't come out, and one of them broke a snap on impact socket and still would not come out. The second broke in half with the treads still in, looks like I am ordering a hub, and going to put on anti-seize. I had the dealer that sold me the van install new tires for free 6 months ago. :(There are not a ram dealer, and I decided months ago that I won't ever go back.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Growing up on a dirt road in a area that saw plenty of salt use, I quickly learned that steel through aluminum is a recipe for disaster. Every lug nut, hub or bolt I put on is going to have a thin coat of copper anti seize. Being stranded on the side of road with a flat tire and a rim that won't budge is probably one of the few experiences from my youth that I don't want to relive. =)
 
#22 ·
I've never used anti seize before this van. I bought it used from Colorado and almost never got the front tires off. Impact couldn't get them off. A big breaker bar with a lot of pressure is the only thing that did it. Had I been on the side of the road I would have had to call a tow truck. Anti seize it is.

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#24 ·
OK, if the lug bolts for steel and alloy rims aren't the same. How am I supposed to use the spare tire on my van? I have the factory alloy wheels and a factory steel spare wheel under the van. I would think the lug bolts for alloys may be a bit longer as the alloy wheels are thicker there. Anyone know for sure?
 
#28 ·
I just bought a 3500 6 months ago, I had a hell of a time getting the wheel studs out. I used a breaker bar with a 4 foot pipe on the end, I got all wheels off except one, one wheel stud would not budge, I broke 4 breaker bars. I went to a tire shop to get all 4 tires replaced, the one wheel I couldn't get off, the tire guy hit the breaker bar at the socket with a big hammer and after a few attempts got it off with a pipe on the breaker as well. I wire brushed all the threads and anti seized the studs just to be safe for next time. This week I went to take the wheels off, and bolts were seized again, I broke my impact gun trying, I bought a new impact gun (750 ft/lb rated) and still wouldn't budge. A few big hits on the end of the socket and the new gun running 140 psi air pressure and I finally got them off. All threads were still clean not rusted, studs were torqued to 120 last time they were put on. In 30 years of working on cars, I've never seen this happen before. Usually a stud would break but these things are pretty beefy. This must me a common issue on these vans but I haven't found much on line. Anyone else have such a hard time?
 
#41 ·
I just bought a 3500 6 months ago, I had a **** of a time getting the wheel studs out. I used a breaker bar with a 4 foot pipe on the end, I got all wheels off except one, one wheel stud would not budge, I broke 4 breaker bars. I went to a tire shop to get all 4 tires replaced, the one wheel I couldn't get off, the tire guy hit the breaker bar at the socket with a big hammer and after a few attempts got it off with a pipe on the breaker as well. I wire brushed all the threads and anti seized the studs just to be safe for next time. This week I went to take the wheels off, and bolts were seized again, I broke my impact gun trying, I bought a new impact gun (750 ft/lb rated) and still wouldn't budge. A few big hits on the end of the socket and the new gun running 140 psi air pressure and I finally got them off. All threads were still clean not rusted, studs were torqued to 120 last time they were put on. In 30 years of working on cars, I've never seen this happen before. Usually a stud would break but these things are pretty beefy. This must me a common issue on these vans but I haven't found much on line. Anyone else have such a hard time?
Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat as you. I have a 2014 Promaster 2500 and the lug bolts have given me nothing but problems. I've used breaker bars, pipes and impact gun to work on this thing. I've cleaned them, put anti seize etc on it but like you, the next time I go to take them off again, I can't. I've probably broken almost 3 breaker bars since I've had this thing. I need to do the brakes badly but without being able to remove the tires I'm kind of SOL. Not to mention if during our travels we get a flat tire! A mechanic friend of my suggested converting it to studs/lugs but so far in my searches I haven't been able to find the wheel studs I would need. Have you had any luck figuring out how to manage this issue??
 
#29 ·
Other posters have mentioned it already but lubricated bolts need less torque. How much less? I've read as much as 25% less:



So when you last torqued them to 120 with lube, that might have over-tightened them making them hard to remove.

Not to steer anyone awry but I think the factory spec of 145 lbs is way high--for my use case (max weight 6300 lbs, nowhere near the theoretical max of 9000). And I'm not suggesting anyone else do this but shortly after I received my PM, I loosened all my bolts (just to make sure that I can do it when needed; i.e. I don't get caught off guard on a dark rainy highway) and retightened them to only 110 (to ensure that in future I can get them off). No lube though.

My Dodge minivan, same engine, is spec'ed to only 100. So I believe 110 is ok for the PM. (NB...it's my belief).
 
#31 ·
I have worked on old machinery all my life -- my "daily driver" tractor is a 58-year old 1962 Massey, the old truck is a 75-year old 1946 Chevrolet, the "new" truck is a fresh 51-year old 1969 Ford. Also, my son and I recently re-worked a 45-year old 1975 VW Bug. So for all of my mechanicing life, I have been using grease or anti-seize on any threaded fastener I mess with. I figure that some poor dumb SOB will have to take this fastener apart in another decade, so I want to do a favor to them by allowing the bolt to come out without breaking. Turns out that often that poor dumb SOB is me.

When I saw this video:



I went out and put anti-seize on all my lug bolts of our then-brand-new ProMaster van.

So I am definitely a proponent of putting anti-seize on any threaded fastener.

What I have learned from this thread: When using anti-seize I should reduce the torque by ~ 25%:

145 ft*lbs * 0.75 = 110 ft*lbs

So I'll use 110 ft*lbs and anti-seize on my ProMaster lug bolts from now on.
 
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