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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not a regular on this site, nor am I an owner. I have posted a few times. I'm a diesel van enthusiasts. My question to you Promaster Diesel owners is this. Will the AMT transmission run longer than a regular automatic transmission? Do you think you could get 200,000 plus miles before a rebuild? Are the dealers familiar with this transmission. Could you get a new AMT transmission if you needed a replacement or would you have to settle for a rebuild? I believe AMT is built by Getrag.
 

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The gearbox is a Fiat/GM design (when they were working together) that is available in manual and automated manual versions.
Gearbox name is C546, but known also as M40. For Motorhomes they use the commercial name "Conformatic".

Here You find 2007 part of the documentation for the AMT used in training courses for technitians (in english)
http://fcconnect.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/Ducato-Robotized-Gearbox-M40.pdf

In this 2006 documents for X250 van You can find service data for the mechanical part of the gearbox (in italian).
https://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDIQFjAAahUKEwi83azI5t_GAhVkMnIKHY5bC9o&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcatribe.eu%2Fapp%2Fdownload%2F5550290116%2FTraccia%2BDidattica%2BFiat%2BDucato%2BX250.pdf%3Ft%3D1410877515&ei=lbenVfy-N-TkyAOOt63QDQ&usg=AFQjCNEgALwnpMT214n9lotFADGhe-2A0A&sig2=1OxGXTILOQgkuEbqIUCPBQ&bvm=bv.97949915,d.bGQ


You'll have to change the clutch, how much it lasts? It depends on many factos, but with AMT it usually last more than with manual gearbox (well it depends on driver use/abuse of the clutch).
Usually You change clutch and pressure plate (even if not necessary) + accessories.
In Europe the pricelist is >>> more than the retail price, a "clucth kit" for Fiat Ducato (X250) with 3.0 diesel engine could cost in the range Euro 250 - 400 for brands like Valeo, Sachs, Luk. If You need also to change the flywheel You have to add another Euro 200 - 300.
 

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It should be possible to get 200K on a clutch with an AMT. An acquaintance of mine who does technical advising for Freigthliner believes the ATM clutch will outlast a driver shifted clutch by a factor of 2. That being said I have known people who can burn up a clutch in 60K miles so that would not be 200K but those people should benefit the most as the robotic control will not let them do the bad things they do with their foot. I have never replaced a clutch on a vehicle I have owned since new and drove one 205K and the other 225K miles. Both needed throwout bearings about half way through. I would not expect the AMT to do much better but perhaps a bit. All this leads me to think 180-220K which is near the lifetime for automatics like the one in the gas promaster. The clutch job will be much cheaper than a rebuild on the automatic. BTW I don't think the M40 itself will fail in 400K miles unless badly abused and overworked. These are just opinions and worth what you are paying for them of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I kind of figured the clutch would be the week point. The Diesel is now offered in the Winnebago Trend which includes the AMT transmission. I think the Trend would avg. 20 plus mpg with the diesel. Thanks for the replies.
 

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I wonder if the clutch & shifting servo actuators might be the 1st trouble spot. Hopefully we won't know for a long time. I wonder how many in europe are sold with this tranny? I think most are regular manuals over there.
 

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My clutch actuator failed by 58k miles. Under warranty they replaced clutch disc, pressure plate, hydraulic master cylinder and slave cylinder, and clutch actuator. Took dealer 9 days.
 

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My clutch actuator failed by 58k miles. Under warranty they replaced clutch disc, pressure plate, hydraulic master cylinder and slave cylinder, and clutch actuator. Took dealer 9 days.
Any idea what it would have cost you had you been paying for repairs? Sounds expensive.

A clutch pedal seems more reliable to me. :)
 

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Considering the clutch pedal would be hydraulically connected to the clutch disk most of those would be replaced if the pedal parts failed too. I'll bet the slave cylinder failed as that would explain why the disk and pressure plate would be changed at so little mileage. No different if it failed with a pedal in fact it would be the exact same parts except the actuator I believe.
 

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The tech seems to think the master cylinder was bleeding past allowing the clutch to be partly released. The trans shafts was turning at approx 250 rpm at idle, this would send a message to info center that shift was not allowed. Clutch disc was slightly glazed and so was pressure plate. Labor charge was about 32 hours including diagnosis.
 

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I've read elsewhere that this trans/clutch combo can and does easily do 200k miles in commercial applications. Mostly because it takes the human screw up, abuse factor out of the equation
 

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Considering the clutch pedal would be hydraulically connected to the clutch disk most of those would be replaced if the pedal parts failed too. I'll bet the slave cylinder failed as that would explain why the disk and pressure plate would be changed at so little mileage. No different if it failed with a pedal in fact it would be the exact same parts except the actuator I believe.
No hydraulics worked great for decades. Only down side for me was having to adjust clutch pedal every few years, which only took a few minutes. Fixing the hydraulic system could take hours, and cost over $1,000 if I had it done on my truck. I'm not against progress, but some advances come at too high a price.
 

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Agreed. I had a slave cylinder fail on my explorer, the transfer case and transmission have to come out! It used to be a rod or cable!
 

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I'm away from home, when I get back I'll post a pic of the invoice. The front carriage had to come out in order to slide the trans back far enough to clear the clutch
 

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transmission woes again

update on our van: it has 116k miles and seems to have the same problem again. this is almost exactly the same amount of miles as last problem 58k. the van is jumping out of gear and will not go back into gear without a restart. that can be quite a scary thing in certain situations as getting pulled over to a safe place for a restart is difficult. the van currently is not going into reverse and jumps out of 6th gear. I was able to manually shift it and drive in 5th gear without it jumping out. the van is at a local dealers shop. I have contacted Ram for assistance.
 

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Sorry to hear this. When these things fail twice with a regular clutched vehicle it is often an issue of alignment or something internal to the transmission. I have seen pilot bearings be replaced and the new one is not aligned to the crank center as presumably the first one wasn't either, shift forks in the transmission bent and input shafts out of true. In this application if the actuators are still good the problem would seem to be incomplete engagement and that should mean mis-alignment. Your post earlier about the trans shaft turning 250 RPM suggests pilot shaft bearing. I assume it was changed?? A very good technician with a machine shop mentality is called for. Discovering what is causing this is not a job for a rookie.
Good luck. We have not had other posters with issues on this clutch so FCA may not have seen this before either.
 

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I agree with you. I feel it could be internal to the transmission, it just seems odd that the mileage upon having a problem is within a few hundred miles of 59k each time.
 

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this past Sunday I met another diesel promaster owner that has suffered a transmission issue. At 99k miles his van would not release out of gear causing it to continue to pull at redlights and to lunge forward when started. His van was in the shop for 3 months. Like my van they changed the clutch and actuator, but no improvement. Then they change the transmission itself, still no improvement. They then installed another transmission, still no change. Lastly they changed the engine control module ECM as they believed the old one was not comunicating with the new transmission. Finally the van was working again. He had the van back 6 days when I met him, so no report if the repair lasted any amount of mileage.
 

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Wow! this is interesting as who would think the transmission issue would be the ECM at 99K and not worn parts or a failing internal component! It is sad that it happened and also for you. I'm trying to get my head around how the shifting can be OK for so long and then fail due to the ECU! Perhaps by the time mine gets to there (4 more years) the ECU update will be perfected on this issue if it affects ather diesels. It will be intersting to hear what yours turns out to be.
 

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As I understood the man, there was a mechanical issue with the trans, but the ECU was unable to communicate with the new one and was then replaced. Must have been a problem with both.
 
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