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Aaron's Build and Questions Thread

89K views 395 replies 41 participants last post by  aaronmcd 
#1 · (Edited)
Edit to add links to various photo updates throughout the thread.

Photo links:
Seat swivels.........................................82
Bed platform.........................................91
Sliding door window.............................92
Bunk windows & fan............................101, 103
Primer..................................................109
Insulation, furring, etc..........................110
Roof rails, electric box started.............114
Mattress, electrical box........................115
Electrical..............................................116
Solar panels.........................................124
First trip................................................135
Propex, start wall panels......................157
Second trip...........................................161
Ceiling..................................................166
Upper wall panels.................................190
Toilet.....................................................191, 208, 304
Driver side cabinet, fridge.....................218, 219, 222, 229, 233, 234
Water tank, cold and hot, plumbing......237, 246, 267, 269
Passenger side, kitchen.......................249, 267
Sink, trash............................................276, 277, 278
Third trip...............................................291, 292
Fourth trip.............................................299
Upper cabinets.....................................302, 303
Shelf over slider....................................307
Lighting.................................................309
Outlets, control panels..........................334, 335
Subwoofers..........................................337, 338, 348, 349
Flooring................................................347
House stereo........................................349, 366
Cab speakers and amps......................350
Gear and bike drawers.........................351
Bed shelves..........................................352
Epoxy Lagun table top..........................357
Storage and mounting items.................367
Shower, near-complete photos.............368

Original Post

Hi, I just bought a van and have spent some 60+ hours researching. Trying to settle on a layout before getting into the details of every inch. Need space for a bike or two, and also need space for mobile offices. Thinking of converting part of the raised bed into a workstation, and using the swivel seat as another station. The annoying thing here is the location of the toilet, which seems a bit inconvenient as a seat. Thinking propane system up the right, electric up the left. Anyone put propane+gray water beneath sink/counter?
65751
 
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#9 ·
Yes it could be too complex - just an idea. I figure there has to be some way to remove part of a bed that isn't too hard to build. Yes, 2 people 2 workstations. One thing I haven't even thought of yet is where to put a litter box...

I find it helpful to have different desk orientations (a U shaped seating section in the rear, my van is usually parked on some sort of angle and don’t want asymmetry in my body for too long). Also, I use a raised bed in the rear as a standing desk height, may want to consider.
My wife would be fine with a standing desk, so that is something to consider. The fixed bed would get back some under bed storage and simplicity.

Congratulations on your recent van purchase.

Your floor plan looks similar to ours. I would think if you had a pullout desk that just slide out from under the bed that might be a solution for a work station, but I don't even know the model of van you have purchased.

It is great that you started this thread with a floorplan & section, we would also need to know your “needs” vs “wants”. Looks like it you are keeping it basic which is a good thing. The more we know about your “intended” use the more design ideas we can provide you here.
Don't even know yet. I'd probably be cool with moving into it full time and traveling. My wife is thinking shorter term, but still several weeks at a time.Either way, 2 work-from-home-away-from-home stations are needed. So far I haven't given up on fitting in at least one bike, thus the raised bed. We are pretty minimalist already and won't need extra stuff. Just a bike and some tent camping (backpacking) gear. We have a cat who might not like it but we intend to try. He won't last forever but in the meantime gotta find a way to deal with litter.

My main opinion at this stage for you is “Design” is everything. A good simple design is a great start to a successful project.
The more I research the more difficult design seems. So many things to consider, including what order I have to do everything. How to fasten everything. How to build cabinets. How to wire electronics. How to cut a hole in the roof.

Another point I can think of is; it looks like you have designed your conversion for a single person use. If that is the case, you may want to consider a design that can incorporate a double sleeper (if things change for you or for resale value down the road). If we can keep our designs flexible or convertible “with ease” I think that is a good thing.
2 person use. Double bed. Was thinking of making a section of the bed convertible for a second workstation. The pull out or standing desk ideas might be better.

The front half of your van is similar to our design. I suggest putting a box underneath your feet behind the swivel seats. If you don't your feet will be dangling in the air when the seats are swiveled around because of the 6" bulkhead behind the seats. The box we did is approx 9" high and 14" wide running all the way from the drivers side to the sliding door. The top lifts up so you can store a lot of stuff in it.
Ho wide does the box need to be? I'm not sure where the front of the seats end up when swiveled around.
 
#7 ·
@aaronmcd

Congratulations on your recent van purchase.

Your floor plan looks similar to ours. I would think if you had a pullout desk that just slide out from under the bed that might be a solution for a work station, but I don't even know the model of van you have purchased.

It is great that you started this thread with a floorplan & section, we would also need to know your “needs” vs “wants”. Looks like it you are keeping it basic which is a good thing. The more we know about your “intended” use the more design ideas we can provide you here.

My main opinion at this stage for you is “Design” is everything. A good simple design is a great start to a successful project.

Another point I can think of is; it looks like you have designed your conversion for a single person use. If that is the case, you may want to consider a design that can incorporate a double sleeper (if things change for you or for resale value down the road). If we can keep our designs flexible or convertible “with ease” I think that is a good thing.
 
#8 ·
The front half of your van is similar to our design. I suggest putting a box underneath your feet behind the swivel seats. If you don't your feet will be dangling in the air when the seats are swiveled around because of the 6" bulkhead behind the seats. The box we did is approx 9" high and 14" wide running all the way from the drivers side to the sliding door. The top lifts up so you can store a lot of stuff in it.
 
#10 ·
Not sure if this was suggested already but you could do a double booth setup and the table drops to make a bed. That would solve the 2 person work station problem and provides a lot of storage.
If you have the room, you could build it forward like in these pics and that would leave room near the back doors for the bike. If you don't have the room, you could always install a bumper mount bike rack for the bike.
Room Vehicle Car Luxury vehicle Building
Room Vehicle Car Commercial vehicle Wood
 
#12 ·
I will tell you what I have learned working out of a van for years (not all day, but for hours at a time on some days).

Use the van seating to sit in to work, your back will thank you. Figure out how to get a table into place to use the seats that come in the van. They will be FAR more comfortable than anything you build out of wood, aluminum, or steel, even with cushions. The are more adjustable (even in the most basic model). This applied to my 1989 Dodge B350 and my 2018 Promaster alike.

If you are going to sit and use a computer, write, read, etc, you will be more comfortable in the van seats unless you actually install seating in the rear.
 
#13 ·
I was thinking the same as @jracca

use the factory seats swivel & a couple of collapsible tables/work stations

then a full elevated bed in the back that you can get a couple of bikes & other gear under

If that does not work for you, one swivel seat/work station & a work station @ the bed (standup or otherwise)

If you can design “spaces” in your van for dual or triple functions IMO those make the best designs. Our slider area is a way in & out, our fridge slides into that space, & we both sit on the floor In that space with our feet on the outside ground, we also access the fridge from the outside thru that space
 
#14 ·
I was thinking the same as @jracca

use the factory seats swivel & a couple of collapsible tables/work stations

then a full elevated bed in the back that you can get a couple of bikes & other gear under

If that does not work for you, one swivel seat/work station & a work station @ the bed (standup or otherwise)

If you can design “spaces” in your van for dual or triple functions IMO those make the best designs. Our slider area is a way in & out, our fridge slides into that space, & we both sit on the floor In that space with our feet on the outside ground, we also access the fridge from the outside thru that space
Oh fridge at the sliding door is a good idea.
 
#17 ·
Based on your further description, I recommend against the convertible bed. Consider instead one workstation behind the drivers swivel seat. The other workstation can either be behind the passenger swivel (I think KOV has done a fold up desk there) or at a dinette seat in front of the bed with a table that pulls out from under the bed on drawer slides.

That said, this has been my Covid workstation and will continue in the van: Link
 
#19 ·
In a van, everything has to do triple duty.

Some conveniences go away.

For example, is there a way to make a combination "wet area" that combines ALL of the needs of a shower, sink, toilet, etc into a 3x3 foot print?

A large refrigerator / freezer setup can be used to store ALL food related items, including paper plates.

There isn't much water in a van, so consider to not wash dishes (yes those dreaded word - paper plates and cups) and only "reheat food " instead of "cooking".

Skip installing a full water system. Use a gallon of bottled water to take a shower.

Reheat pre-made frozen meat instead of frying it in the van.

Combo convection microwave oven.

A bench and a bed become one item.

Mount the bike on the back door when feasible, move it inside only when really required.

From my perspective, the part assigned to electrical might be too small to really work for your likely needs in a mobile office.

Just some thoughts for squeezing out some space.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the thoughts. As far as conveniences going away, we are both comfortable with backpacking for a couple nights, but I don't think my wife wants the extended backpacker experience for several weeks at a time. We are good with minimal conveniences though.

"wet area" - I intend to buy a composting toilet, sink with gray water, and shower outside when available.

"paper plates" - We would much rather use plastic dishes than make waste. When we backpack I use a few ounces of water to wash our 2 dishes, and I drink the gray water. A few extra ounces for the convenience of basically RV living seems reasonable.

"water system" - Like I said, when we backpack for a few nights we are fine. But for more than that I would need (very much like) to proper wash my hair, and I'm not gonna cut my hair. I will put in a proper water tank.

"reheat food" - We always cook food. Never had a microwave dinner in my life, nor do I want to start now, but I might install a 600 watt microwave for leftovers. A portable cheapo coleman seems reasonable, and could be moved outdoors for cooking when weather is nice.

"bed and bench become one, bikes outside most of the time" - I am mostly set against this, but this may be SF bias - I've had several bikes stolen. From 3rd floor balcony, from being locked up in well lit attended downtown garage in the middle of the day, from inside a store when I turned my back for 20 seconds. I like my bikes secure, but might consider sketching up a layout with bikes outside while we are awake and in the middle of nowhere. But still, they would need to be inside if we are near town or asleep. Also the raised bed provides extra storage options. Something to think about.

"Electrical too small" - This I really have no idea. I'm a structural engineer. In other words, I hate black magic such as electricity. I was thinking 2400 Wh (2-12V 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries), 400 watts solar, battery to battery charger (I have a 220 amp alternator if that makes a difference), charge converter, fuse box. The fancy ass batteries save space vs the older lunks and last more charge cycles with less maintenance. Basically I just assigned a space as a "design development" placeholder. It could spread out if needed.

Here is a revised layout idea. The fridge by the door was scrapped - Top open fridges are pretty long and I like the cook stove by the door, plus trying to balance weight a bit by keeping the fridge on the driver side. Open to revisions of course. Scrapped the convertible bed. The rear workstation could be stand up at the bed, or pull out while sitting on the toilet box. I may have to chamfer the counter to provide easy access, but that shouldn't be too bad since fridges are typically not super deep (from a quick google search of various models).
65794
 
#21 ·
Another thing I have to ponder is windows.

I was initially thinking a skylight would be nice, but might be hard to fit 400w solar, fan, maybe an evap in the future, and a skylight. Also skylights are pricey. What windows would y'all recommend for semi-stealth yet still livable? Thinking passenger door would be nice for living light and driving. Rear door windows I'm not quite sold on, but might make driving easier. Side bed windows... meh - are these really useful to have?
 
#34 ·
You have a better chance for a leak in a skylight than a window same for dripping condensation.

I really like the CRL windows that are specifically made for the PM vans. We only have one in the slider, and are very happy with it. Our van is a bit of a cave; not for “stealth” reasons, but custom built for how we use our van.

RnR made some good “window” points above & if that is how we used our van we would not be shy to put windows in it. We use our van to travel & sleep in. We do not cook in the van. We do not shower in the van. We rarely eat in the van. We to take our private small space with us on adventures mostly into the wild parts of North America (not big cities - but we have stayed in our van in LA & other major metros). We literally wanted a Private Travel Cave.

Not that there is any validity to this statement; but we feel that our van is more secure with less windows - in reality it probably is not (but people can not look inside it)
 
#23 ·
I say "semi-stealth" as someone who lives in SF and sees very very many stealth and non-stealth campers everywhere. Depending on where they are. There are full on RVs running generators during the day at the park down the block. There is a camp of tents down the other block. Other places one might want to "fit in" more. But I think there are many places where something that looks like a van at first glance, yet seems to be an RV on closer inspection, would fly for a few nights. Thus "semi-stealth". I don't think we are gonna fool any Karens with solar on our roof, and I'm fine with that risk. But I don't want every random passer-by to be a potential tattle-tale. I think my van with a few upgrades could pass in my neighborhood for a week or two before some busy-body felt it's their duty to get rid of me.
 
#28 ·
KOV is right. Don't waste any effort or resources on hiding the fact that it's a campervan. Just install whatever windows or vents you want to be comfortable.
There are so many people doing the van/RV thing that, unless is says Amazon on the side or it's obviously a work van with ladders and PVC pipes on the roof, no one will be fooled for even a minute. In fact, unless it is an obvious work or shuttle van, most people will assume it's a camper van right off the bat. And if you have solar panels and a roof vent, fuggettabottit.
Just install windows, you'll be glad you did.
Also, I like your 2nd design.
 
#29 ·
I agree with KOV & RnR & my van is white with 1 window & 1 white roof fan, & 1 white/ss shore power plug. I could put “trade” vinyl company advertising on it, but I really do not think I am fooling anyone;

Now this is a thing,,,

 
#30 ·
They don't want people in RVs, traveling, out in the real world, interacting with real people.
They want everyone locked in their house, ordering everything online and being brainwashed by their television.
Just put windows in your van and go live life.
The people that would call the police on you are all hiding in their house with masks and tinfoil hats anyway.
 
#32 ·
The people that would call the police on you are all hiding in their house with masks and tinfoil hats anyway.
Exactly & they are not really all that scary ... But the ones hiding in their vans with masks on😳

We live in a Ridiculous World & IMO it is best to get out there & enjoy it as much as we can.

As My Brother use to tell me (referring to the World with mock fear), nobody is getting outta here alive !!
 
#31 ·
Look on the bright side though:
if there is a concerted effort to hassle and discourage the whole vanlife craze that's sprung up in the last few years and get people back in their houses, plugged into their TV and dying of diabetes and heart disease (so they can sell them more meds and turn their brains to mush with "news" and "reality" shows),....
just think how many more lightly used vans will be for sale in the next few years.
(y)
 
#35 ·
If you're dispersed camping it doesn't matter. I you are staying overnight at a flying J or interstate rest area, no one cares or is interested in you. They're all there for the same reason.
The only reason to care about "stealth" is so you can park in places where you shouldn't be.
And if you are, then it doesn't matter if it looks like a camper or plain white work van. You shouldn't be there.
 
#36 ·
The reason to be "stealth" is to park in places where certain NIMBYs think I shouldn't be. Not to park places where I actually shouldn't be. It's really not that hard to find places without a 7 ft height restriction and that's in SF.

Ok, sliding door window is a no brainer. Can always cover it with insulation at night, and can't build cabinets on the door anyway. I'll leave the driver side as is. A vent/window at the bed makes sense also.
 
#37 ·
I have my 500W solar + 2 Maxxair vents + a large skylight/hatch (I have a 16''x30'' version of Bomar Low-Profile P Series Deck Hatch) on my 159 roof. For city style living with the windows covered, the hatch is critical - it gives awesome natural light so I don't feel I'm in a cave. It's one of the best features of my van. Highly recommend hatch for what it seems like you might be doing. And this is a boat hatch so water impenetrability is highly valued.
 
#52 ·
Thanks for that. So my van is the EXT which has 14” extra between the wheel wells & the back doors

@RnR has a standard 159” & has been designing a floor plan for awhile, so I would think he knows the dimensions quite well. I posted the Sportmobile layout pdf & that will also give you dimentions To help you rough in sizes.

What size bed do you want? Our is queen width 60”. How long are your bikes you want to put under the bed, as that will be a deciding factor (assuming the bed is going from wall to wall length 73” to 74”
 
#39 ·
Stealth is a strange thing, that has been covered at length in the past. I'll add a few observations.
Most people are not as observant as you might thing, but if anyone is looking hard enough they will know.

I think a white van without windows can blend in at places where a white van is not out of place regardless of a few solar panels on the roof. But if it is someplace someone doesn't want you, they also probably don't want a white delivery or contracting van parked either.

My van has no windows, but two roof vents and 4 solar panels, otherwise the only indication it is an rv is a small shore power inlet on the back that really doesn't stick out all that much. I've had one incident of a window knock by the police at 5am (I didn't answer and they left, but I couldn't get back to sleep). My prior van was obviously an RV with roof air, vents in the side or furnace, water heater, etc and in 4 years I have zero incidents, for one year I parked in many of the same places I parked the new van.

I am not sure it matters as much as people think. One the other hand, I have been asked several times if my van was really an RV when parking at RV parks, both paid and unpaid free RV parking at the casino I use a lot. No trouble just curiosity really. Ended up giving a couple of tours.
 
#46 ·
My new van was a work van so selling off partition, shelving, and ladder rack. Should I keep the existing rails the ladder rack is mounted to? Maybe us them for cross members to mount solar to?
Vantech makes an adapter for mounting things to promaster roofs at the factory mount points.

They aren't the only one, but it is a fairly small number of suppliers.

It might be worth looking at the roof mount options before selling the parts.
 
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