Ram Promaster Forum banner

1 - 20 of 77 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
We are authorized by 3M to sell Thinsulate sound/thermal insulation to DIY van builders and up-fitters. We stock SM600L which is the thickest version engineered for vehicles. Below are some links and a spec. sheet. It is our view that vehicle insulation should meet these basic requirements:

+ low weight
+ no loose fibers
+ non-flammable
+ does not absorb moisture
+ no off gassing

Thinsulate meets these requirements and more. Plus it's a great selling feature when/if you eventually sell your van.

Material is 60" wide, scrim on one side. Priced by the linear foot.
Shipped via Fedex. For more info or to place an order:

+ Send a PM on this forum
+ Email heinvs ----- @ ---- impact3d --- .com
+ Call Hein during west coast business hours at 54l 49O 5O98

links:
3M SM600L Thinsulate
Material Safety Data Sheet (pdf)
Spec Sheet

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,990 Posts
You could always use 1$ bills, they would probably look nicer and you wouldn't need to cover them up. As an added bonus if you run short at the toll booth or Mickry D's you could just peel a few off!;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I ordered from Hein and was pleased with the service. Their price is better than anywhere I have seen ($1.78/ft^2--I looked around for a while and even started a thread about getting someone to share with me to cut down the cost) and it does expand to about 2" thick.

A 136" high top, if you use 1 layer of insulation, requires about 30 ft of this insulation (about 145 ft^2). Some of the spacing between body panels and frame in the back are fairly thick, you could double up this area, requiring about 230 ft^2 (or 47 linear ft). So more expensive than fiberglass, but not too unreasonable given the benefits (in my opinion--I did a lot of research before settling on the thinsulate. I'd rather spend a little extra now than have to redo it later).

I've been tacking it in place with a combination of industrial velcro (the industrial adhesive can withstand the heat in direct contact with metal) and hot glue (connecting the velcro to the scrim of the insulation) until I can build the walls to hold it in. I'm planning to cap it with reflectix prior to putting in the walls. I don't know that this is the best way, but it seems like the consensus view of the builds I've looked at.
 

·
Registered
2014 136” HR
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
So your insulation will ultimately be attached to the interior panel, not the van wall? I am having a hard time being convinced that's not the best way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I have been trying to figure out the best way to insulate a van for many months now...

Google this, Google that, You Tube this channel, that channel . There must be thousands and thousands of vans built or have been built with insulation in the last 50 years or so..

In the year 2014 why is there not an accepted method to do this properly?

Have I not hit the right Internet site yet?

I see fiberglass in vans, cotton cloth etc, that stuff would seem to be a negative right away due to water intrusion.

I read about spraying the entire van, then comments about off gassing, insulation crumbling after time, van walls getting buldged out in the insulation spraying process..

Any advice where to look for more ideas..

This stuffSM660L seems about the best yet?

I haven't come across something so confusing since I started to use the Internet years ago!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Google this, Google that, You Tube this channel, that channel . There must be thousands and thousands of vans built or have been built with insulation in the last 50 years or so..
And millions (?) of homes built. Same issues. Lots of materials, principles, theories and beliefs. Nothing is perfect. Nothing is a 100% correct.

Sounds like you have done a lot of homework. So weigh the facts on materials, what you want to achieve, set your goals and go for it.

The thinsulate seems to be a pretty good material. With more money and a bit more indepedent information on it I might have tried it myself but I have more time than $$.

My choice was a dampener to reduce panel noise ( Second Skins Damplifier), then closed cell foam to add noise reduction and thermal insulation. The foam will also act as a pretty good vapor barrier for me. Is it the best vapor barrier? No, but I don't intend to use my van for a camper so I'm not overly worried about moisture. It will certainly be much better that what it has now - nothing. It will take me a bit more time to put in several layers of 1/2 inch foam but it will be cheaper for me.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
855 Posts
I have been trying to figure out the best way to insulate a van for many months now...
So have I. The issue is that most information on insulation is for houses. That is why most upfitters just use techniques used for insulating houses. It's only the talented DIYers like a few over on Sprinter Source who have really analyzed the data on available materials to determine what is best. Some focus on sound deadening/dampening, while some only care about R-value. Refrigeration trucks all use closed cell spray foam so since we only have a few inches available to insulate that probably yields the highest R-value. The problem some found was body panel warping during temperature changes.

The 3M Thinsulate SM600L seems like a great material to use but I don't believe it is the best bang for your buck since it was designed more for acoustic control in vehicles than R-value.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
427 Posts
I used styrofoam sheets cut to fit and wrapped in Insul-bright fabric* made of hollow core polyester fibers and mylar. Inexpensive and effective. Also poked polyester fiberfill into all the crevices.


Insul-bright cost $96 for an entire bolt (40 yds x 45 inches wide). I have lots left over that I am using for a multi-layer fabric divider between the cabin and the cargo area.. http://www.warmcompany.com/ibpage.html
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
855 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Expensive. And you still need something else to handle sound dampening.
I meant between the panels covering the insulation. The small surface area that touchs the panels such as a 2x4 and drywall. In a house they claim a 35% increase in r value with a small strip of aerogell between the 2x4 and the drywall. Yes for covering all the surface of the van, one would need a NASA budget. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
I meant between the panels covering the insulation. The small surface area that touchs the panels such as a 2x4 and drywall. In a house they claim a 35% increase in r value with a small strip of aerogell between the 2x4 and the drywall. Yes for covering all the surface of the van, one would need a NASA budget. :)
I think that is a pretty good way to stop what is usually called a thermal-bridge. It acts as a block to keep cold/heat from using the studs in a wall as a way past the insulation in the cavities. Actually a pretty good idea considering that all the metal studs/structure will pass quite a bit of cold/heat right through to the interior.

Too bad there isn't a way to put it between the skin and the structure. I know there's a bit of that foam product from the factory in many places already but this would be great.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
417 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Thank you all for the informative posts and discussion. Let met try to answer some questions:

Any advice on vapor barriers, and where to put them relative to the insulation?
When a van becomes a living space, the moisture from breathing, possibly cooking and just entering the van with wet feet or gear/clothing can increase the moisture content of the air in the van. We feel that it is important to keep this moist air from entering the wall cavities by using a moisture barrier behind the interior panels. Reflectix works well for this because it is easy to install and stays put with foil tape. The foil tape can also be used to cover smaller holes in the sheetmetal. Even w/o an adjacent air space, the Reflectix will add some R value.

In the year 2014 why is there not an accepted method to do this properly?
Thinsulate is being used by luxury vehicle and boat manufactures. It is engineered for vehicles.

Any advice where to look for more ideas..
This documents discusses insulating metal buildings:
http://www.impact3d.com/Metal_Building_Condensation_Fact_Sheet.pdf

This stuffSM660L seems about the best yet?
We believe so. Everyone has been very satisfied with it. And it's a great selling feature.

I haven't come across something so confusing since I started to use the Internet years ago!!!
It can be confusing. There is some lack of understanding and certainly a lot of opinions in the DIY community. We look for solutions in the engineering world.

The thinsulate seems to be a pretty good material. With more money and a bit more indepedent information on it I might have tried it myself but I have more time than $$.
Although not a cheap material , Thinsulate can be cost effective because it can reduce the need for Dynamat and other heavy and expensive sound treatments.

The 3M Thinsulate SM600L seems like a great material to use but I don't believe it is the best bang for your buck since it was designed more for acoustic control in vehicles than R-value.
The SM600L has an R value or 5.2 which can be increased with a Refletix moisture barrier. Sound and Thermal insulation in one.

Insul-bright cost $96 for an entire bolt (40 yds x 45 inches wide). I have lots left over that I am using for a multi-layer fabric divider between the cabin and the cargo area.. http://www.warmcompany.com/ibpage.html
Thank you for posting. That material would be great for some window covers. It's 1/8th as thick as Thinsulate SM600L so would need a lot of layers to equal the R-value and noise abatement.

I think that is a pretty good way to stop what is usually called a thermal-bridge. It acts as a block to keep cold/heat from using the studs in a wall as a way past the insulation in the cavities. Actually a pretty good idea considering that all the metal studs/structure will pass quite a bit of cold/heat right through to the interior.

Too bad there isn't a way to put it between the skin and the structure. I know there's a bit of that foam product from the factory in many places already but this would be great.
Thermal bridging can be a problem when using metal framing against the interior sheet metal. Plastic spacers or 3M VHB tape will reduce the heat conduction.
Most vans have the outer sheet metal bonded to the inner structure with polyurethane structural adhesives so there is already some level of thermal isolation. Textured surfaces do not feel as cold to the touch as smooth ones so the choice of interior materials and finish is important.

Thank you again for all the information and questions. We would be happy to send samples so you can do your own evaluation. Please call, email or send a PM.

-Hein
heinvs ----- @ ---- impact3d --- .com
54l 49O 5O98 (Pacific time)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
855 Posts
Thank you all for the informative posts and discussion. Let met try to answer some questions:

The SM600L has an R value or 5.2 which can be increased with a Refletix moisture barrier. Sound and Thermal insulation in one.
Could you post or PM me a document or link that says SM600L has an R-value of 5.2? Thanks.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
427 Posts
Originally Posted by zwarte View Post
Insul-bright cost $96 for an entire bolt (40 yds x 45 inches wide). I have lots left over that I am using for a multi-layer fabric divider between the cabin and the cargo area.. http://www.warmcompany.com/ibpage.html


Thank you for posting. That material would be great for some window covers. It's 1/8th as thick as Thinsulate SM600L so would need a lot of layers to equal the R-value and noise abatement

Hein -

Wrapped around styrofoam, it is not only an excellent insulator but way cheaper than the thinsulate you are hawking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
444 Posts
He's selling thinsulate in the classified section, why the bashing? It has it's advantages. I may want some someday. It would be great to have a thread in the build & conversion section discussing the various insulation & sound dampening methods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Another type of insulation to look into is Rock Wool. This has been used in AirStream trailers for years. It has good a R rating, great sound deadening and water has little effect if it gets wet. A bag of 2x4 has 8 pieces 24" x 48"x 3 1/2". Using a long bread knife slit them in half will give you 16 pieces 1 1/2" thick by 24x48 or 128 sqft all for about $55.00 at a home center.

For more info on Rock Wool;
http://www.roxul.com/
 
1 - 20 of 77 Posts
Top