Yea Yea I know they are gone. - Page 2 - Ram Promaster Forum
User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 23 Old 04-24-2019, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
RDinNHandAZ
Senior Member
 
RDinNHandAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Summer in Lakes Region of NH and Winter in the Sonoran Desert of AZ
Posts: 6,469
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1457 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 1,633 Times in 1,266 Posts
Garage
(Thread Starter)
KOV is joking or has had to much gas fumes as I have never seen diesel $1 more than gas. In fact right now it is about 30-35 cents more than gas even in the NE area. Gas Buddy is your friend buying diesel as it does vary more than gas in any market.
If anyone has figures on the ratio of diesel to gas vans sold for brands that have a choice I would enjoy reading. If there are enough it might get FCA to consider putting the 2.3L in our market. That combination would get 30+mpg and feel like the 3.0 in power. I am resigned to keeping mine for many years as it ages and paying for the repairs to a high mileage van as I just don’t see a desirable alternative out there. Emissions repairs will be the killer I expect as this engine has a reputation to go 500,000 miles driven hard in those Cantor trucks, they get no love!

2015 136" HT Diesel 1500 Sandstone Pearl Metallic
Campervan build see:https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=37177
You can browse my build pictures at http://tinypic.com/RDsPictures
Conversion Costs see: https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=85761
$500 solar and $700 complete Electrical: https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=71562
If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.
RDinNHandAZ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 23 Old 04-24-2019, 05:28 PM
Chance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,493
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 139 Times in 113 Posts
I would consider a 2.3L diesel for the extended driving range, but it would have to come with a 6-speed stick (never going to happen in US) or with an 8-speed auto, or similar. Reviews of the European VW FWD Crafter with 2.0L diesel and 8-speed auto usually rate it very high; often ahead of Mercedes Sprinter.



RD, while looking at 2.3L European engine choices, I came across a Ducato 3.0L turbo inline-4 Petrol engine option that burns methane. Itís a low RPM engine with power and torque similar to diesels. Not very powerful for a turbo 3.0L, but makes 350 Nm at very low RPMs. Iím not sure which countries itís available in, or if itís still in production. The pdf was dated 2017, but shows a 3.0L turbo I-4 fits under new Ducato front end.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg E00FBC19-D123-4F98-9569-38B27DF1F04A.jpg (301.1 KB, 10 views)
Chance is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 04-24-2019, 10:11 PM
Chance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,493
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 139 Times in 113 Posts
It appears these 3.0L I-4 compressed natural gas are currently in production. A pure gasoline version may be a middle ground between diesel and V6 gasoline engine. Iím interested in finding fuel economy data when on petrol.



http://www.ngvjournal.com/s1-news/c3...iat-ducato-np/
Chance is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 04-24-2019, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
RDinNHandAZ
Senior Member
 
RDinNHandAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Summer in Lakes Region of NH and Winter in the Sonoran Desert of AZ
Posts: 6,469
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1457 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 1,633 Times in 1,266 Posts
Garage
(Thread Starter)
Isn't there a south American country running about everything on ethanol and/or CNG or methane? Brazil?
It may be that engine is based on our 3.0 L diesel as it has a chain for valves where the 2.3 (and others) use a belt which has to be changed, same bore and stroke? Fiat no longer produces our engine itself as it spun off the maker (Iveco).

One of the problems with matching our engine with an automatic-like transmission was it’s torque. In Fuso Cantor trucks it produces 430 Nm of torque. Our M40 automated manual could not handle it so the engine was detuned to get it to no more than 400 Nm. I have no idea of what the automatic in the Pentastar v6 can handle but I’m guessing not 400Nm. Yes the 3.0 can fit in the face lifted (current) ducato and variants as they are sold in Europe currently I believe.

2015 136" HT Diesel 1500 Sandstone Pearl Metallic
Campervan build see:https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=37177
You can browse my build pictures at http://tinypic.com/RDsPictures
Conversion Costs see: https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=85761
$500 solar and $700 complete Electrical: https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=71562
If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.
RDinNHandAZ is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 04-24-2019, 11:14 PM
phil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,652
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Thanks: 281
Thanked 464 Times in 379 Posts
The engine is an F1C NG, compression was reduced to 12.5:1

Customized to dual fuel.

"range, on natural gas, of 400 km (500 km with both fuels)"

petrol only cuts in automatically when the natural gas is running out

Petrol keeps you from being stranded, small tank.

Last edited by phil; 04-24-2019 at 11:19 PM.
phil is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 04-25-2019, 01:17 PM
Chance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,493
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 139 Times in 113 Posts
Interesting option if they could adapt a new petrol-specific head to a heavy duty 3.0L I-4.

A modern gasoline engine can make about 80 lb-ft of torque per liter, so a 3.0L could be in 240 lb-ft range without turbo.

Also, at only 60 HP per liter tuned for commercial/truck use, biased for low-end power, a 3.0L I-4 could put out 180 HP, equivalent to smaller van diesels.

Sounds crazy on the surface, but if Ford just designed a 7.3L pushrod V8 for trucks that may have GCWR close to 30,000 pounds, then a heavy duty 3.0L gasser may perform well and deliver fairly good economy with lower maintenance.
Chance is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 04-25-2019, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
RDinNHandAZ
Senior Member
 
RDinNHandAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Summer in Lakes Region of NH and Winter in the Sonoran Desert of AZ
Posts: 6,469
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1457 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 1,633 Times in 1,266 Posts
Garage
(Thread Starter)
The tragedy here is we vent and flare nearly 250,000,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas into the atmosphere in the US each year. In the 1940’s it was 4 times that much so some progress has been made I guess. Of course it would be a lot less when compressed to 3,000psi. It would equal about 1,200,000,000 gallons of CNG

2015 136" HT Diesel 1500 Sandstone Pearl Metallic
Campervan build see:https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=37177
You can browse my build pictures at http://tinypic.com/RDsPictures
Conversion Costs see: https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=85761
$500 solar and $700 complete Electrical: https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=71562
If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.
RDinNHandAZ is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 04-26-2019, 10:05 AM
Chance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,493
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 139 Times in 113 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil View Post
The engine is an F1C NG, compression was reduced to 12.5:1

Customized to dual fuel.

"range, on natural gas, of 400 km (500 km with both fuels)"

petrol only cuts in automatically when the natural gas is running out

Petrol keeps you from being stranded, small tank.

Did you find any information on how they modified it to run on gasoline? Just technically curious. I found specs for the Natural Gas versiůn which clearly states itís based on Diesel engine, but Iím wondering if gasoline operation is more of a limp-home feature in case it runs out of natural gas, or if it could run indefinitely on gasoline. The 12.5 CR is a little high for a turbo gasoline engine.

https://www.fptindustrial.com/global...t&EngineId=204
Chance is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 04-26-2019, 12:17 PM
phil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,652
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Thanks: 281
Thanked 464 Times in 379 Posts
Driver has no control over the NG to petrol switchover. I guess the driver could only fill the petrol tank (15L), but I suspect the MPG is nothing to brag about.

IMO, they must have changed the head, the only mod I could find is it uses indirect injection.

This article has some pro and cons about it, from a Polish point of view.
(there are 2 pages)
https://gazeo.com/up-to-date/reporta...port,7449.html

Last edited by phil; 04-26-2019 at 12:24 PM.
phil is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to phil For This Useful Post:
Chance (04-26-2019)
post #20 of 23 Old 04-26-2019, 01:44 PM
Chance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,493
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 139 Times in 113 Posts
Yeah, more of a limp home than something that could be adapted to full-time gasoline. The 100 HP and 90 km/hr allowed top speed on petrol says it all.
Chance is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome