Question - plusnuts! Sizes & install - Page 2 - Ram Promaster Forum
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post #11 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 10:59 AM
keeponvaning
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Step drill have their uses but it’s almost certain if you use one to drill a hole for a rivnut it will end up oversize!

2014, High Top/159 WB, 2500 gas Promaster camping conversion. https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=43121
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post #12 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by keeponvaning View Post
Step drill have their uses but it’s almost certain if you use one to drill a hole for a rivnut it will end up oversize!
Exactly! They cut so well, and so easily, that before you know it you are three steps further than you wanted. A drill bit in the proper size with a depth collar installed would be a much safer solution.
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post #13 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 11:17 AM
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Hi,
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the furring strips are only to attach wall and ceiling paneling, why go to the trouble of using rivnuts or plusnuts? A couple of self tapping screws where each furring strip crosses a rib would seem like plenty? And, be a lot faster, cheaper and easier?


I only used rivnuts for places where cabinets or other heavy items needed a good, structural attachment to the van.



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post #14 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by GaryBIS View Post
I only used rivnuts for places where cabinets or other heavy items needed a good, structural attachment to the van.
Gary

I would think a ceiling qualifies as a heavy item, especially since the load is straight down. I'm planning on using PlusNuts so I can easily remove any wall or ceiling panels as required for access to wiring, etc. since I am doing my build in stages.
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post #15 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 01:41 PM
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Hi,


Agree with the idea that plusnuts would allow repeated removal and reinstallation of the panels more easily, but I have had one of my ceiling panels up and down a couple times with no problems with the self tappers.


This ref below gives pullout and pull over the head strength for self tappers:
https://www.hilti.com/medias/sys_mas...OC_1577675.pdf


For pullout in 0.036 metal sheet, they list 225 lbs per screw for #8 screws and 260 lbs per screw for #10 screws.


The pull over the head loads are quite a bit more.


I suppose these are carefully controlled lab tests, and I'd not expect to get these numbers in real life, but considering that each pair of screws only supports maybe 3 or 4 sqft of ceiling, they seem to have plenty of margin.


Not really trying to talk anyone out of plusnuts or rivnuts, but just pointing out an alternative.


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post #16 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 03:01 PM
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I think either way is acceptable and I used both, as a matter of fact. Yes, ceilings can be heavy and bolts may be best if it is, but they can also be pretty light. This is a use your common sense type of application- neither is right or wrong necessarily.

2014, High Top/159 WB, 2500 gas Promaster camping conversion. https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=43121

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post #17 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all so much for the information.

I'm uninterested in using rivnuts or self-tapping screws, though I understand why others would choose them. My build will be in stages so I'll be putting up some walls and cabinetry temporarily for a trip, before removing them again to wire in my solar setup and run plumbing hoses when I get to that stage of the build, then putting up the final walls/ceiling.
Also going to have some overhead storage for heavy **** and I don't want to be caught later, needing a load bearing plusnut where I put a screw. I'd rather just do all plusnuts throughout the build.

So the general consensus is that we're just drilling our own holes and using the 14-20s instead of trying to match any of the existing holes? I thought the idea was to avoid rust/corrosion by using the existing holes, but if that's not really a concern then I'm fine drilling and painting so I can use the right size plusnut.

Thanks to all that sent info on where to get these, too. I appreciate it!
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post #18 of 34 Old 03-28-2019, 08:41 PM
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Why do you think plus uts are any better than rivnuts?

2014, High Top/159 WB, 2500 gas Promaster camping conversion. https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=43121
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post #19 of 34 Old 03-29-2019, 03:11 PM
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Garage
I used plus nuts over rivnuts for the following reasons:

1) hole does not have to be very precise.
2) No. 1 allows use of a step drill.
3) No. 2 reduces chance of drilling too far
4) greater pullout strength
5) no special tools needed (I used battery impact driver, wrench, #8 bolt, washer, connector nut, star washer)
6) repeatable install (10 turns for me, made easy by black marker line on socket, I first tested to determine this spec)
7) can be put in pretty tight places
8) less likely to spin imo
9) if they do spin, a small hole allows you to block the spin with a nail stuck thru it

They are a little harder to source and over a $1 a piece at low quantities.
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post #20 of 34 Old 03-29-2019, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I used plus nuts over rivnuts for the following reasons:

1) hole does not have to be very precise.
Precise holes are still better and not more difficult
2) No. 1 allows use of a step drill.
Step drills are fine but why not use the correct drill to begin with?
3) No. 2 reduces chance of drilling too far
Everyone should have a set of drill stops they aren't expensive.
4) greater pullout strength
Probably the best reason in many cases but in a van conversion not really important.
5) no special tools needed (I used battery impact driver, wrench, #8 bolt, washer, connector nut, star washer)
6) repeatable install (10 turns for me, made easy by black marker line on socket, I first tested to determine this spec)
Astro tool - one good squeeze.
7) can be put in pretty tight places
8) less likely to spin imo
Always buy the Rivnuts with the splines to prevent spinning.
9) if they do spin, a small hole allows you to block the spin with a nail stuck thru it

They are a little harder to source and over a $1 a piece at low quantities.
About 7 to 8 times more expensive actually.

Yes they both have their place and value but in a van conversion it's pretty much irrelevant. If you use Rivnuts properly with the correct tool they are just as easy to install as Plusnuts, just as strong for most applications and far less expensive, especially if you have many to install. Rivnuts fit and look far better in many applications as a plus (pun intended)

2014, High Top/159 WB, 2500 gas Promaster camping conversion. https://www.promasterforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=43121

Last edited by keeponvaning; 03-29-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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