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MsNomer: Hiker's Paradise

108K views 169 replies 38 participants last post by  RDinNHandAZ 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
This will be a slow build because we spend so much time hiking. I did get a small start, though, before we leave this weekend.

The first improvement was a floor mat from Eurocampers. "Dark Grey" is darker than in the pictures, but light enough to brighten the cabin a bit. The fit is excellent. The hold-downs are for carpet, so I will do a bit of modification to anchor it to the seats. So far, it hasn't moved, though.

Because Photobucket hijacked her photos in this thread, MsNomer has created a website detailing her build: msnomersvan.wordpress.com
 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
Those cup holders are dusty because of my first real project. Yeah, the cabin has cup holders, but they are waaay too low. And we need a spot for the GPS to supersede the lousy speedometer. I was determined to preserve the usefulness of the original cup holders.

A nice piece of curly maple should do nicely.



To support it without any modifications to or holes in the vehicle, I first shaped a bracket to the curve of the recess. This support rests on the shelf behind the cup holders. I covered the back side with foam tape so the wood would not rub against the plastic. The maple does not go all the way to the back, leaving room for a nylon strap.



This nylon strap has Velcro sewn onto the ends. There are vertical rods behind the console that these can cinch tight around.

But without more, the shelf would slide right down. That more begins with supports that bridge the intersections between the original cup holders. The ones in this picture had off-centered holes. I later realized that centered was best. Dowels run up from them to the outermost hole in the L-Bracket. (The lower hole in the bracket was part of that first failed attempt, so ignore it.)


Support members were all painted black, so they fade away, leaving the maple appearing to float. (I didn't realize until I saw this picture that the black needs a bit of touch-up.)



Cup holders from Walmart and the GPS fit nicely.



Underneath the maple, I have Velcro and cup hooks to manage the GPS cords. The cup hooks will also be handy to stabilize plastic grocery bags--hook the handle to keep the bag from falling over.

Because Photobucket hijacked her photos in this thread, MsNomer has created a website detailing her build: msnomersvan.wordpress.com
 
#95 ·
Those cup holders are dusty because of my first real project. Yeah, the cabin has cup holders, but they are waaay too low. And we need a spot for the GPS to supersede the lousy speedometer. I was determined to preserve the usefulness of the original cup holders.

A nice piece of curly maple should do nicely.



To support it without any modifications to or holes in the vehicle, I first shaped a bracket to the curve of the recess. This support rests on the shelf behind the cup holders. I covered the back side with foam tape so the wood would not rub against the plastic. The maple does not go all the way to the back, leaving room for a nylon strap.



This nylon strap has Velcro sewn onto the ends. There are vertical rods behind the console that these can cinch tight around.

But without more, the shelf would slide right down. That more begins with supports that bridge the intersections between the original cup holders. The ones in this picture had off-centered holes. I later realized that centered was best. Dowels run up from them to the outermost hole in the L-Bracket. (The lower hole in the bracket was part of that first failed attempt, so ignore it.)



Support members were all painted black, so they fade away, leaving the maple appearing to float. (I didn't realize until I saw this picture that the black needs a bit of touch-up.)



Cup holders from Walmart and the GPS fit nicely.



Underneath the maple, I have Velcro and cup hooks to manage the GPS cords. The cup hooks will also be handy to stabilize plastic grocery bags--hook the handle to keep the bag from falling over.

MSnomer, if you saved your patterns, I'd be interested in buying one of these from you, if you'd be interested in making another one.

Please let me know. :)
 
#5 ·
Thumbs up on that! Since the origional cup holders appear to be intact can they be used for something used occasionally... perhaps a flashlight or ?????
 
#7 ·
I can't actively work on my van now because we are traveling through November, but I have made some progress in my travels, particularly in Portland, Oregon. I was fortunate that we had a couple days to spare and a cooperative husband.

First Stop: Motion Windows in Vancouver, WA, outside Portland. They are one of the few manufacturers of windows for the Promaster. These windows have the slight bend instead of forcing the panel flat as generic windows would. Very friendly folk and a quality product. The installer patiently walked us through the installation process and we left with precise hardboard templates for each window. When I get home, I will order the windows--the largest that will fit all around--and we will join the company of brave?? souls who attack their new vehicles with sharp objects.

Second Stop: A flooring store that sells Marmoleum. I got a remnant at a good price with no sales tax and no shipping because it fit in the truck. I am super pleased with this purchase. It must be installed >68°, so I will have to create a monolithic floor, cut the ply to fit, install the Marmoleum on the ply and cure it in the house, then install the unit in the van. Don't want to think about how heavy and unwieldy that will be, but the alternative is wait til summer.

Third Stop: A business which upfits Sprinters and Promasters--that day they had about equal numbers of each. A stupidly simple conversion was going to cost its owner $38,000 on top of the cost of the van itself. I was not impressed with what I saw. Fiberglass insulation. No sound insulation. Wall panels were a fabric about the consistency of burlap wrapped around Luan, then screwed on. They are a custom shop, though, and what I saw was what the customer ordered. I assume they can do better if paid even more money to do so.

Fourth Stop: CampingWorld. I asked to see Class Bs. The first one I was shown was a Viva by Itasca on a Promaster cutaway chassis--didn't know it existed. I was then shown the Travato, the Trend, and a Sprinter. Overall impression: the Promaster wins hands-down for roominess. It didn't look particularly crowded even with all amenities. A couple things I learned about mileage and swivels I will post separately.

I learned a lot from the upfitter and from the models. The most important thing I learned is that I would have to do some really crappy work to sink to their level. The upfitting on the Winnebagos in particular was pathetic.

Now I have to wait another month doing mundane things like the Grand Canyon rim-to-rim (maybe rim-rim-rim) before I can really dive into my Promaster project.
 
#28 ·
Third Stop: A business which upfits Sprinters and Promasters--that day they had about equal numbers of each. A stupidly simple conversion was going to cost its owner $38,000 on top of the cost of the van itself. I was not impressed with what I saw. Fiberglass insulation. No sound insulation. Wall panels were a fabric about the consistency of burlap wrapped around Luan, then screwed on. They are a custom shop, though, and what I saw was what the customer ordered. I assume they can do better if paid even more money to do so.
Could you share the name of the conversion company (PM is fine if you don't want to publicly name)? Curious as I've been daydreaming for a long time about a van project, and the likely company is one in the greater pdx area.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Cool shelf and mounting arrangement.

Hello, We're out in Hood River, OR (East of Portland on I-84) and would like to see your van if you have time. I'd like to get to know the ProMaster a little better. I have a Sprinter you can check out. We have developed some niche products for the Sprinters and looking to expand our offerings to other vans. Maybe we can produce that cool shelf for some other folks. We also have 3M Thinsulate on hand if you want to see it. We are home mostly so feel free to stop by. I'll PM my number and address.

-Hein
 
#11 ·
Nice work. Make it look more functional. I agree the cup holders are way too low and the one on the dash is not level and the one in the door is for sealed vessels only (as I slammed the door, then realized I left my coffee).

I like my GPS to the left of the rear view mirror instead of down low, but that's just me.

Do the brackets carry the weight or the support dowels? Maybe spreading the brackets out a little to pick up the meaty part of the original cup holders might spread the load??
Did not know there were support bars behind the panel. Good to know and again nice job!
 
#12 ·
The dowels transfer the weight to the joins between the original cup holders via the inverted u-shaped brackets. The strap keeps the assembly from pivoting forward. It must be as tight as possible; fortunately, it doesn't seem to have stretched. The brackets can't carry any load because there's nowhere to give them solid flat feet except in the original cupholders, which would inhibit their use.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
The Ceiling

Finally, I have some real progress. The part that took the most time is now covered up, but I'm pleased with what I see. I can't contemplate how many hours I've spent studying the framework, including its >500 holes, and looking at other builds, pro and self-build, online.

First, a MaxxAir fan with remote control. I splurged for the remote control because sometimes I get vertigo would not be able to look up at the manual controls. A conveniently located tree branch was quite helpful.



The first thing up for the ceiling was the side supports. 45° bevels on 1x4. The holes are simply to allow the ceiling to breathe.


Next I installed 1" furring strips along the ceiling ribs, made from 2x4, thus 1.5" wide. The curve is a perfect arc of a circle with radius somewhere in the 10-12' range. The strips total 54.5" long, but for ease of handling, I cut them at 28" and 26.5". These strips were fascinating to work with. The curve is so subtle that I had to be careful which surface I was working on.


Up front, I used Loctite PL Premium 8x to attach a screwing strip to the ceiling weld just rear of the ceiling liner. This strip is made from 1x4, is 1.5" deep, and has the same curve as the ribs. I thought I would need several supports while it set, but one on each side held it firmly. I used scrap resting on the black tray as a base for the support. It is as solid as if it were part of the vehicle.


I put tapered shims on the fan surround.



The rear was the hardest. Same curve cut out of 2x4, bottom edge 1.5" below ceiling weld (like the front), but with all the bumps back there it was difficult to hold it in position for screwing.



After agonizing over insulation, I settled on EZ-Cool with Thinsulate. I got the EZ-Cool off eBay for the same price as Reflectix and it appears to be a much better product. The two fit the space perfectly. I understand that I lost any reflectance benefit.



The ceiling panels are 1/4" (actually 3/16") Luan ply. I got the best I could find, but the quality was so poor that there was no hope for a really smooth surface. Accepting that reality, I applied primer, two coats of paint matched to the white of the van, and three coats of Minwax Polycrylic all with random strokes--no feathering. I like the effect. We will also be carrying momentos of our cats (hair) on our travels. :laugh:

I actually cut the panels too precisely. Installation above the head is not so precise a maneuver. Fortunately, I was smart enough to install front and rear first, then make adjustments on the middle two that were just rectangles. It was critical, though, that the front edge butt the lip in the headliner, that the screw line be 2 7/8" back from the front edge, and the hole for the fan start 7" back from that edge. That fit perfectly.

The result passes my ultimate test--reflections are true with no dips or waves. Thin battens and moldings will cover the seams, but these will come with the upper walls.


(You may notice the rear light turned 180° and installed in the ceiling.)

Because Photobucket hijacked her photos in this thread, MsNomer has created a website detailing her build: msnomersvan.wordpress.com
 
#15 ·
Immediate Proof of Insulation Benefit

Only the ceiling is insulated. I have a 1500W utility heater.

In the bare van, the heater could raise the interior temperature 20 degrees, from 30° to 50° in two hours. It couldn't do any better.

With the ceiling in, the inside temperature went from 25° to 50° in an hour. After 1:45, inside temperature was 65° and still rising. Outside temperature had risen to 30°.
 
#18 ·
I lowered the ceiling 1" below the ribs. The 1.5" front and back is because the welds are 1/2" higher than the ribs.

Two reasons: insulation and the sides fit better--the smooth curve can go all the way across. I saw the dilemma other folk were having with the sharp curves at the side.

We are both 5'6", so the loss of an inch is noise.
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
The Upper Side Panels

A bit more progress. I have installed the rear panels above the window panels. The front one behind the driver is made, but I will not install until the electrical in that area is finished.

I just thought the ceiling was weird. What finally worked was a "crown mold" made from 2x4. One edge 45°, another 36° and the third I'm not sure--whatever worked.


This was attached to the wall panels before installation.



Turns out the 2x4 wasn't quite wide enough and my two hands weren't sufficient to hold things in place for measuring, so I filled the resulting gap with a thin strip (5/16").


That boo-boo resulted in a nice shadow effect. The wall panel actually has a bit of bow as it crosses an intermediate cross piece, but it is not noticeable. It has suddenly become much easier to address that chunk of rib sticking out. Later.



Windows go below this panel--as large as will fit the spaces. They are ordered and will arrive early April. I'm thinking they will have to be framed with fabric because I have not the talent to fabricate something that shape out of wood.

Slowly but surely. Next up is the Marmoleum floor.
 
#21 ·
The Floor

There were a few compromises, but the floor is in.

One of my first purchases was a Marmoleum remnant as we passed through Portland, OR, last fall. The manufacturer says material and surface must be warm for 7 days before and 7 days after installation, and an installers' forum had reports of failure even near an outside door in winter, so we decided to do the install onto the plywood in our den, then transport the finished floor to the van.

This required two compromises, or at least we thought it did. Before we knew we would have help, we decided that 1/2" was the most we could handle, though I would have preferred 3/4". As it turned out, one neighbor who came to help could have twirled the thing on his finger.



The second compromise we still consider as necessary--we installed in two sections with a seam through both surface and ply between the wheel wells. I assumed and accepted that this seam would not look good, but most of it will be hidden. The result is actually better than I had hoped for. Fortunately, wood glue with floor shavings is the recommended repair, so I could glue the seam and "repair" it in the same operation.



Underneath, I have the factory rubber mat, which was also useful as a pattern, and a layer of Silent Blue closed cell foam underlayment. Before the floor was fastened down, I walked on it and realized that the SB's Mylar backing was squeaking. It was easy to peel off.

We bought Sprinter tie-downs with cups from e-Bay. Much more elegant than the Promaster's.



The end result, minus trim pieces at the doors:

 
#22 ·
Thanks, it looks nice but those thumbnail pictures are not big enough! I plan 1/2 inch floor so if it turns out to be a mistake let us know. You do nice work.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Rd, I don't know what the deal is with the pictures. As you can see earlier in the thread, I've not had the problem before. This time when I went to Photobucket, it didn't act the same.

I forgot to add--according to my iPhone app of unknown and dubious accuracy, I appear to have lost about 10 db with the addition of the floor. It is noticeable--conversation is now possible instead of, "what did you say?"
 
#25 ·
I gotta say I love Marmoleum as a finished product. It feels warm looks natural, is repairable, etc.. It is a bit fussy to deal with so I have never laid it in sheets only tiles of it.
Since the dB scale is logarithmic (as is our perception of sound) you have decreased the sound level an impressive amount. Closing up the walls with the insulation inside will help tremendously too.
BTW I use "dB 10th" on my iPhone and I think it is fairly good. Calibration is another thing as you know. Quiet bedroom should be about 35, house in the day 45, along a street with cars 70+, noisy ATV or motorcycle nearby 90+, and ear damaging Jet take off 110+. You can check.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I've been using Decibels. I looked at yours and liked it better. They appear to be tracking very closely. I just wish they would show the frequencies. Are there instructions somewhere for calibrating?

My goal is to match my '06 Tundra (zero rattles or squeaks at 100,000 miles) at 70 dB on a nearby poor-condition brick street. I've gone from 85 to 75 with the floor, so it appears possible.

Everything I read says professional installation only for the sheet. I can see that for larger areas, but for a van, go for it. If you have the warm weather so you can lay it in situ, no big deal and no seams.
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
Trimmed out the interior edges with 5/8" foam backer rod. A credit card was the perfect tool. Besides looks across the front and along the rear sides, which are the only parts that will show, I want to avoid the possibility of losing a screw under there. That could be a nightmare.



Went for a longer ride today. I could hear the engine for the first time.

Because Photobucket hijacked her photos in this thread, MsNomer has created a website detailing her build: msnomersvan.wordpress.com
 
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