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Any real mpg #'s yet?

428K views 736 replies 210 participants last post by  RobPromaster 
#1 ·
Ok these things been out for a few weeks now. I'm sure someone has did there first hand calculation by now. That is the only thing holding me back from pulling the trigger. The suspense is killing me lol.
 
#3 ·
I know what Ram expects the Promaster to deliver for fuel efficiency. The Promaster is supposed to be in the mid-20s range for mpg. That is pretty vague though.

The Promaster is actually exempt from EPA ratings, not sure why, so there is no real official mpg rating.

Trucktrend.com estimates the fuel efficiency at 17 or 18 mpg.
 
#6 ·
Everyone drives differently, using different road conditions, speeds, loads, and so on. A standard test is needed, like EPA tests, but unfortunately that's not available.

As a rough guide, I'm basing my expectations on a RAM 1500 pickup with same V6 engine. Both vehicles weigh about the same, and at lower speeds the PM's larger size shouldn't make much difference in wind drag.

Smaller and lighter PMs with gasoline engines have taller gearing which should increase MPG somewhat, but I expect it will be close unless it's a low roof 1500 model under highway conditions.

For what it's worth, Winnebago has estimated MPG for the Travato, which is based on largest PM, to be in the 17 range. I'll assume that's mostly highway driving like most RVs. And that's for the longest 3500 model with high roof and loaded to almost 9,000 pounds.
 
#8 ·
I would hope the diesel version gets at least 25-30mpg, like my 2003 Sprinter. There's no reason to buy a Ducato Master if it gets less than 25 when you can get a diesel Transit or Sprinter that does. Getting 20% better mpg over the 250k life of the vehicle more than makes up for a few thousand more in initial sales price.
 
#592 ·
I was a Sprinter-2500 5cyliners 2006y-made 158"wb H-roof owner for 8 years.
I hade few trips to Miami FL ~650miles one way All trips in February.

On my Sprinter I had Best 23.3MPG Measured by "Fill Tank to cork" then ODO substract.

On a ProMaster this February with a same load and same speed c.c. on 73m/h I made 23.8MPG

So I say it is about The Same MPG Sprinter vs PM
 
#13 ·
You would think rams could do better on mpg since there smaller. They are the same motor but I believe there less hp and trq than the pm motor. Also pms are tall. Lots of wind resistance. I know I dropped 3 mpg less when I installed my ladder rack and ladders on my sprinter. And I have the regular roof.
 
#15 ·
The ram 1500 version of the 3.6 is more hp and torque than the pro master version, and it also sports the 8 speed transmission.
I own one and it sees about 17 mpg city driving and 25 hwy average right now. It's a crew cab 4x4.
Don't think the pro master will quite see that for economy without the 8 speed
 
#19 ·
The dealer quoted me 8-12 weeks. If it's on the side of 8, it should be just before the new year...12 puts me right before february. I've never ordered a vehicle before so I have no idea how this will all go! It will certainly have the possibility of being put to the New England winter climate test right out of the block!
 
#21 ·
TTAC recorded ~25mpg on a FIAT Ducato diesel 3.0; averaged when doing highway runs with 3000lb of stone payload (loaded going uphill, empty going down):

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/review-2013-fiat-ducato-cargo-van-video/

Over 850 miles the Ducato averaged 29.6 imperial MPG which translates to 24.6 US MPG. Keep in mind the Ducato had 3,300lbs of cargo in the back and the van climbed from sea-level to 2,200 feet every trip. These are impressive numbers. Based on local gasoline and diesel prices of 3.99 and 4.10 per gallon respectively, the pay back time for the diesel’s expected $4,000 premium would be just over 2 years at 20,000 miles a year.
 
#22 ·
I believe the promaster has less air drag than a 4x4 pick up truck.
Truck is higher off the ground ,cab,box.diffs and wider bigger tires
are all pushing and causing air turbulence even the gap between
the box and cab.
On Mythbusters they got better mileage with the tail gate up,
this helps the vacuum effect from the cab and box. Anyone seen that
episode?
Also a crew cab is only 7" shorter than a 159" wheelbase (non extended)
Pro Master.

I do not know if this is true about the less drag ,but am just guessing.
 
#25 ·
Ram truck has the best aerodynamics of all the pickups.
There is no way the PM has less drag than one.
There is no gap between the cab and box on the 4th gen rams, that is stop-gapped and the tailgate is shaped to allow flow.
The front bumper, and chin spoiler sit way lower than the diffs, I'd have to measure mine but I'd be willing to bet the leading edge of the Ram 1500 is no higher than the PM's.
The crew cab short box Ram 1500 is 140" wheelbase, so 19" shorter than a PM
Tires are much larger on truck though @ 33"
 
#27 ·
The PM is slightly wider than RAM pickup, with the low-roof PM about 10 inches taller overall. The high-roof PM is about 20 inches taller than pickup. So both models have larger cross section to wind.

And while PM has wedge front, much of vehicle drag is produced at rear, where PM is very squared off. I'd bet aero drag is higher for PM compared to RAM pickup.
 
#30 ·
If you look a nature (Whales Dolphins and a person) going though the water
And Airplanes compared to a semi truck going though the air.
There is less drag per square meter .
I guess its all about less disturbance ,less nook and cranny's.
To go over smoothly so to say.(or under).
 
#35 ·
The Ram 1500 has a worse coefficient of drag than the Promaster.
0.363 vs. 0.315.

That means the Promaster is about 14% slippy-er.

BUT, the fundemental equation for overall drag is Coefficient of Drag (Cd) multiplied by Area, or
Cd x A

Next thing to investigate is how much frontal area each one has. Unfortunately, Ram/Chrysler is not publishing that data in their specifications on their media site.
:(

References are here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-ram-1500-first-drive-review
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/2013-fiat-dodge-ram-1500-cd-0-363-a-22973.html
http://www.italiaspeed.com/new_models/2006/fiat/ducato/design.html
 
#36 ·
The Ram 1500 has a worse coefficient of drag than the Promaster.
0.363 vs. 0.315.

That means the Promaster is about 14% slippy-er.

BUT, the fundemental equation for overall drag is Coefficient of Drag (Cd) multiplied by Area, or
Cd x A

Next thing to investigate is how much frontal area each one has. Unfortunately, Ram/Chrysler is not publishing that data in their specifications on their media site.
:(

References are here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-ram-1500-first-drive-review
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/2013-fiat-dodge-ram-1500-cd-0-363-a-22973.html
http://www.italiaspeed.com/new_models/2006/fiat/ducato/design.html
Thanks, that's good to read. If the PM's drag coefficient is indeed in the .315 range (and it does seem a little low to me but hope it's correct), then it should make a low-roof 1500 PM have mileage in the same range as a pickup. The lower Cd number should come very close to offsetting the larger cross section of the ProMaster compared to a Ram pickup.

Of course speed is very important too since the equation you mention above also includes Velocity squared. So driving at a steady 60 MPH reduces drag even more compared to driving 70 MPH. And for those who cruise at 80 MPH, fuel economy will drop off very quickly.

With a relatively small engine and tall gearing (compared to my Ford E-350 with V-10 as an example), slowing down should make a big difference. We should also keep in mind that the 25 MPG EPA highway rating for the best Ram pickup is based on a drive cycle which includes some stops and a relatively low average speed for the entire cycle. The smallest low-roof PM may come close to matching that 25 MPG if driven in a similar cycle. And that's empty and slow.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Some things to consider:


  • Drag increases with the square of velocity (ie, double your speed, and your drag increases by 4x)
  • The Cd for the Ducato is .315, the Promaster is incrementally greater due to indicating lights on the roof/nose, and fender flares. Call the Promaster Cd = 0.32
  • The Cd for the Ducato is based on the high roof model. The low roof model may have an even better Cd, and certainly less frontal area.
  • The Promaster is available in different lengths. The longer the vehicle, the better the drag coefficient, which would more than compensate for the increased skin drag, of course the same goes for the Ram 1500 crew cab versions.
Anyway, FIAT UK has a good spec on the Ducato lineup and the 3.0 diesel (180 Multijet) gets 27.6-29.4 mpg US (you must convert imperial gallons to US gallons

http://www.fiatprofessional.co.uk/uk/CMSEN/Pdf/Ducato_Goods_Tech_Spe.pdf

What's really interesting is that they sell a 2.3l engine is Europe, with two levels of performance. The most frugal being the 110 Multijet, which gets an astounding 31.8-33.1 mpg (US)

A grain of salt, the NEDC mpg figures are a bit optimistic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_European_Driving_Cycle#Criticism

I think the 3.0 diesel Promaster should solidly hit 25mpg given this info.
 
#44 ·
I'm not aware of the e content of the gas in question, so I could only speculate. I know ethanol can change mileage, but there are many other factors as well so I won't jump to finger pointing yet. There is no e-85 at any pumps here so I know that is not what happened.

I just really find the pentastar enjoyable to drive. I hope it's as much of a pleasure in the PM's as it is in the trucks.
 
#45 ·
I think some places are moving to E-15 from E-10, which probably kills MPG numbers.

This gets me curious... can the Pentastar handle E-85? I have read some models are Flex-Fuel, but I don't know if the PM engine is one of those.

Not that I'd go out of my way to put booze in the tank, just because I lose more MPG than I gain by a lower price.
 
#48 ·
Hi everyone .
About 2 weeks ago I was given a 2500 136 high roof for 3 days . Made about 350 miles city and highway . My avarage was only 16.2 mpg. I am planning to buy 1500 136 low roof , any one had a chance to test it. ?
The 1500 low roof 136" is the model I ordered. It's due in around January 8. I test drove a 1500 low with the 118" wheel base. I enjoyed the test drive but didn't have an extended run on it.
 
#50 ·
Wow, 16.2 MPG is less than I would have thought for the gas PM. Please describe the terrain & loading you encountered for the 350 miles.
My 2003 Express gets about 13-14 MPG average with a 6 liter motor in combined driving. I was thinking the PM would be closer to 19-20.
I may have to keep the Express, it has been a solid performer, mechanically excellent, just a gas hog, but spending $25,000-$30,000 to get 2-4 MPG is a steep price & a long payback.
 
#51 ·
Promaster mpg

I was driving empty , not to heavy foot , on the highway I noticed that speeds over 60 mph decreased mpg to around 17 -18 mpg , I was driving around Chicago . It was my first automatic transmission in years so my driving habits could lead to low mpg . I saw a post by DucatoDudes claiming he is getting better mpg loaded .
 
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